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Religion and marriage...trouble abound.

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posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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My spouse and I have been married for 9 years now, we were married in a Lutheran church in a traditional ceremony. Now we have seen our fair share of troubles and what she calls "tribulations". My wife comes from a very religious family (Christian) and I, baptised catholic but never really "practiced" nor taught the ways of a catholic believer.
I like to refer to her mother... yes my mother in law( go ahead fellow married men cringe) as an extremest Christian. She is the one that gives a bible "answer" for everything and practically shoves psalms down everybody's throat to the point of near suffocation.

With a bit of history laid out I will continue, I believe in "god" that is a creator of some kind within the realms of my current understanding. I know myself and what I "feel" about religion in general. I am opposed to organized religion in general and do not involve myself in church activities or membership for that matter. I'll admit...I have attended service in the past and during basic training in the Army, catholic mass to be more exact.

My wife, I believe has been indoctrinated by her mother into the belief that I, as her mother calls me...(a non believer in Christ) will never be able to join her in haven upon my death. And that simply, all of our "troubles" in life stem from my non direct belief in Christ as (my) savior.

I find myself in constant defense of my belief in "god" when it comes to issues pertaining to our marriage as a whole. I am attacked from two fronts...mother in law and wife, both equal in their opinion. I never proclaimed myself to be any kind of "believer" prior to marriage, neither to my would be wife (at the time) nor her mother. False pretense can't be a reason here.

Can I not live my life by the beliefs of my choosing? Am I not free to explore "god" in my own way? I can't imagine that I am alone with this problem.




posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by alyosha1981
 


What about a dowry system in the west. The bride's family pays a certain price. The groom's family collects it. Return the bride, return the dowry.

This was all thought out before the time of Christ.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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Well, I've been married for 14 years and we both are Christian.
If we weren't we wouldnt still be married or worse. Dead.
Now the mother-in-law should stay out of your marriage. Fact.
But Ive had LOTS of trouble with mine and had to overlook, forgive, ignore and pray for them MUCH. Thats the way it is.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


I do pray, I do forgive...but I can't forget. I've been called every name under the sun for not "believing" I have the capacity for forgiveness, I can even be tolerant and respectful of [her] beliefs as well as the beliefs of her family, I just can't model my life in "line".



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by alyosha1981
 


Well, YOU have to live your life, not your family.
Look past humans to Who God is. He will not let you down, if you earnestly want to know the truth.
I used to be a drug addicted feminist, with agoraphobia, schizophrenia and suicidal attempts.
I asked God if He was real and loved women as much as He did men. I opened up the Bible my mom had given me and found the answer right away!
I had read the Bible before, but it might as well been in the original Greek, because I did NOT get it!
Then, when I asked Jeshua to forgive me BAM! I was a new creature! Worth God loving me, Beautiful and innocent as a child! I cried because I had waited so long just to ask God and Jeshua that!
I quit smoking, drugs and forgot things about my former self that were VERY bad!
My life has never been the same and that was in 1993!



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


I commend your accomplishments, I do believe in self "revival" so based on my reasoning I would attribute your "transformation" to self longing rather then a divine intervention.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by alyosha1981
Can I not live my life by the beliefs of my choosing? Am I not free to explore "god" in my own way? I can't imagine that I am alone with this problem.


If this is the way your wife married you then she needs to accept you that way. It's beginning to look like your wife is the problem here. She needs to block for you. I mean block her mother. She needs to tell her mother to back off. Maybe you should ask her to do it? Tell her if she doesn't you will. Be a man about it. Don't be weak.

Oh, and one more thing. Be open minded to Christ. Don't let those people make you stubborn about it.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by Unknown Origin

Originally posted by alyosha1981
Can I not live my life by the beliefs of my choosing? Am I not free to explore "god" in my own way? I can't imagine that I am alone with this problem.


If this is the way your wife married you then she needs to accept you


Thank you, I think this is the root issue in this specific "zone" of the problem. I have asked numerous times for exactly this...and I'm here with no resolve to report. I've even had lengthy conversations with her mom in regards, I only get in a few words before..."well in the bible"



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by alyosha1981
 

The Bible says the wife is supposed to submit to the man. So, tell her to quit it because that's how you were before you were married and if she didn't like it she shouldn't have married you and if she don't like it now she should leave. If she wanted to be married to a super Christian she should have just married one. Plenty of them out there. The fact that she didn't isn't your fault.

Eph. 5:23-32
"For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of his body, the church; he gave his life to be her Savior. As the church submits to Christ, so you wives must submit to your husbands in everything."

Now that doesn't mean you can go do whatever you want. You have to submit to God as she submits to you. Fair is fair. Even the boss has another boss.

Other than that, tell her to quit. She's the women so she's supposed to be submissive to God through you and you're the one that's supposed to directly submit to God, not the other way around.

If she refuses to when you tell her to she's going against God's word and if she does that then I guess she doesn't really believe in it either so she needs to stop giving you crap about it.

Also, the Bible says "A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one."

That means she leaves her father and mother too. You are now one and you take priority over her mother. That is the word. Why? Well we can see how it's not working when her mother's opinion is taking priority over yours right? It's not.

She left that family and you and her have started your own now and become one. Her first priority is you and not her mother or her mother's opinion. For that is the word of God and if she doesn't follow it the Bible says this.

The only two cases in the Bible that qualify for divorce is infidelity or if one spouse doesn't believe in God and chooses to leave. But since she's a believer the Bible says as long as you choose to stay she must stay married to you and submit to you.

1 Corinthians 7:13-15
"And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

So you may not be a believer in Jesus and just a God in general or whatever, but since she is a believer and she's your wife you actually are sanctified and saved that way. How? When two people get married they become one being in the eyes of the Lord and she, your other part of you, believes. That means you believe, so you are saved.

But since she does believe, if she's dogging you because of her mother and not respecting you and not submitting to you and not being one with you then she's not obeying the commands of the Lord and is actually sinning. Which may actually in a way make you more Christian than her in the eyes of Jesus.

Will you go to Hell? No probably not. You do believe in Jesus. It's just the other part of you, your wife, that does the actual believing part (for now). So, you're sanctified. You'll be just fine.

Her not listening and doing what the Bible says though, may have her going down the wrong path if it leads to divorce and more sin and hardships that may one day break her faith in Jesus leaving her unsaved and pointed towards Hell.

I suggest she read what the Bible has to say about marriage.

EDIT: Also, the Bible says that all your "tribulations" are not because you're a non-believer.
1 Corinthians 7:27-28
"Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this."

Your tribulations are just caused by the fact that you're married. The Bible promises marriages will be faced with many hardships no matter what you do.

[edit on 8-12-2009 by tinfoilman]

[edit on 8-12-2009 by tinfoilman]



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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I am not Christian. I am married to an ex-evangelical.

Your wife is in direct contravention of the Bible in her manner in dealing with you about this.

She shouldn't have married you.

But she did, and know she and her mother are bucking your authority.

Which is totally not an acceptable practice in the Bible.

You MIL is in contravention twice,for she is interfering in your marriage which is explicitly critized in the Bible.

I suggest a good read of the Bible, so that you can prove that both of them should back off and be better "examples."

[edit on 2009/12/8 by Aeons]



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 11:13 PM
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I would tell her that its between you and God, and talking to you about it won't change anything. Tell her that the only one who can change what you believe is God and all she can do is pray about it. That will throw her for a loop and shut her up hopefully.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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Well, in this circumstance I think you should lay the ground rules for the wife. Be as genuine and polite as humanly possible, no need to create more trouble than there already is. If she is becoming an extremist christian, much like her mother, she'll respect anything the bible has to offer for this situation.

"Then the LORD God said, 'It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.'" Genesis 2:18 (helper/aid...your wife should be playing this role...ask her if she thinks she is fulfilling her purpose as laid out in the bible...)

"Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all transgressions." Proverbs 10:12
(maybe lay this one on the old mother-in-law...I find the best way to fight off the attacks that stem from biblical verses is with other biblical verses...how about "love thy neighbor"....)

"Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Romans 13:10 (Your marriage should be a direct reflection of this verse....your wife will surely understand if she is a christian...)

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." Ephesians 4:31-32 (The mother-in-law should hear this one as well. If the wife won't tell her...you should...)



I hate to get involved in these kind of situations. I don't normally give advice seeing as how I'm still young and haven't experienced anything of this nature. However, I am well-versed with the Bible among other religious texts. Basically, tell your wife you love her for her and she should be in the same boat.


I, (Groom's Name), take (you/thee), (Bride's Name),
to be my [opt: lawfully wedded] wife,
knowing in my heart that you will be
my constant friend,
my faithful partner in life,
and my one true love.
On this special [opt: and holy] day,
I (affirm/reaffirm/give) to you
in the presence of God and (all those in attendance/these witnesses)
my (pledge/sacred promise) to stay by your side as your [opt: faithful] husband
in sickness and in health,
in joy and in sorrow, as well as
through the good times and the bad.
I (promise/further promise) to love you without reservation,
honour and respect you,
provide for your needs as best I can,
protect you from harm,
comfort you in times of distress,
grow with you in mind and spirit,
always be open and honest with you,
and cherish you for as long as we both shall live.


I don't see anything about "or until the bride's mother deems the marriage a failure due to differences and intolerance on her behalf"....Your marriage is your marriage. The mother-in-law is out of her mind, and clearly out of her biblical standing, if she thinks she's doing the right thing....

I wish you the best of luck friend.
Respectfully
A2D

[edit on 8-12-2009 by Agree2Disagree]



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 11:47 PM
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You could present her with the CDD (Christian Domestic Discipline) concept, and suggest that you're going to "see the light" just as soon as she signs the contract.





posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by alyosha1981
I find myself in constant defense of my belief in "god" when it comes to issues pertaining to our marriage as a whole. I am attacked from two fronts...mother in law and wife, both equal in their opinion. I never proclaimed myself to be any kind of "believer" prior to marriage, neither to my would be wife (at the time) nor her mother. False pretense can't be a reason here.


This particular mindset is being fostered by family, environment, and church... because to many of the fundamentalist Protestants, Catholics are idolators and worshipers of false gods (not understanding the difference between veneration and worship), and are all destined to hell. Given the rants I've seen on many fundamentalist boards, being a Catholic (even a lapsed one) seems to be worse than being an outright atheist.

It's a very "tribal" mindset -- that of someone that relies on family and family group for their sense of identity. Anything different than them is seen as a threat to them and their integrity.

Don't know what to advise you, but I doubt that anything short of a religious epiphany by her would convince her otherwise... and when she's disappointed in you, she goes to her family for comfort and they reinforce the disappointment.

This kind of person generally doesn't believe in divorce.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by alyosha1981
 



Can I not live my life by the beliefs of my choosing?



Doesn't seem like it...


One thing I know you can do though - get a divorce...problem(s) solved, and it would seem to be a Two-Fer.

Run dude, run...





posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by alyosha1981
 


Are you kidding me? According to your own religion it is you that represents Christ in your family. It is you that gets to decide what the religious values that your family upholds shall be. It is your duty to be the head of the family and it is your wife's duty to obey you. It's completely Sexist, I know, but that's the kind of dumb stuff your religion preaches. Perhaps you should remind your mother-in-law that, in the Old Testament (Torah), women are forbiden from discussing scripture, since they were the instrument of the Big Fall and, therefore, cannot be trusted to interpret the scriptures properly.

In EVERY case you should establish with her that it is YOUR role to decide what your religious perspective is to be and not hers our your wife's. You am Da Man and they ain't, and being Da Man in Christianity means that what you say goes. Grow a pair and castrate her. In Christian theology she's a nobody. She's a servant. Call her bluff and tell her to get her crap in line. Boy, I would love to be in your position in my own life right now. I would cut her and her spawn to shreds. If they weren't crying by the time I laid down the law then I would know that I didn't do the job right.

Christianity just overflows with shame for the females of the race. I could lay it on extra thick. Good thing for them that I'm an atheist and a moral person. My belief system would never allow me to subjigate another to my will and whims. But your belief system is "all systems GO" where it comes to treating women like crap and so I say go for it! Put her in her place. Use her religion against her. Don't just put her in second class, put her in baggage!

[edit on 14-12-2009 by godless]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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Very sad. Another example of how religion causes hate and judgment towards others because ones beliefs are not similar to theirs, and not "perfectly righteous" like they. Just yield to them, and agree with them, otherwise you will not win. In reality religion is nothing but a collection of myths, plain and simple. All the same stories and characteristics of the bible were already invented in much earlier cultures and religions that made no secret whatsoever that they were in fact MYTHS. Christianity copied these myths and labled it as the truth. To make it worse, the contradictions and absurdities in the bibles make it hard to believe that anyone older than a ten year old wrote it, but yet its claimed to be of divine inspiration. Theres overwhelming factual information out there to confirm my statements. If you havent discovered this yet, you are listening to your pastors and preachers too much and not studying for yourself.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by alyosha1981
 


Unfortunately people like your wife and mother in law tend to be so welded to there beliefs that all logic and rational goes out the window . So it pains me to say that you are struck with the situation for as long as you are married to your wife . Its sad that some people can't see past such differences.

Cheers xpert11 .

[edit on 15-12-2009 by xpert11]



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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I'd have to lay this problem at the doorstep of your mother-in-law (and possibly your wife). Sounds like a serious case of intolerance on their part. What a sad thing it would be if that intolerance was the product of their belief system.

I am a life-long areligious person who has been married for 25 years to a Catholic. Aside from agreeing to marry in a Catholic church for my spouse's family's benfit I have never since participated in any religious exercises to appease them. Happily, I have never been challenged for my lack of a belief system by any of them.

We have never engaged in any debate or discussions on the subject of religion and that may be a source of your problem. I have been tempted many times to engage in discussions with them, but I know that anything I say would only offend them. I keep my trap shut and remind myself that they are just as entitled to their beliefs as I am to mine.

Now might be a good time for all of you to mutually agree not to discuss the matter of religion. I think previous poster "calstorm" offers the correct stand for you to take just before you declare the subject of religion off limits.

Good luck to you.



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