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The Fat Lady just sang.....

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posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:17 AM
reply to post by theonlyrusty

before washington regulated our air, and water, and workplaces, life was miserable in a lot of ways.
The Triangle Fire in the early 1900 led to safety regulations in the workplace for instance, but that's only one example.
I'm just not willing to broadly condemn government intervention like you.
I think government can and does a lot of good things. And specifically, a jobs program can do a lot of good things as well like they did during the depression.
And finally, this program is low cost and is using money already available.

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 11:34 AM
Here's the latest story on the EPA

I think this is how obama The Destroyer is going to pass cap & tax.

Jackson suggested the EPA's decision Monday that greenhouse gases should be regulated would be a dual path of action by the Obama administration and Congress.

"This is not an either/or moment. This is a both/and moment," she told more than 100 people who packed a U.S. meeting room in the conference center.

The EPA determined Monday that scientific evidence clearly shows they are endangering the health of Americans, and that the pollutants — mainly carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels — should be regulated under the Clean Air Act. That means the EPA could regulate those gases without the approval of Congress.

The EPA decision was welcomed by other nations in Copenhagen that have called on the U.S. to boost its efforts to cut greenhouse gas emissions, because it seemed President Barack Obama could act more quickly and bypass legislation slowly working through Congress.

The full Senate has yet to take up legislation that cleared its environment committee and calls for greenhouse gases to be cut by 20 percent by 2020, a target that was scaled back to 17 percent in the House after opposition from coal-state Democrats.

"We have been fighting to make up for lost time," Jackson said, referring to the Bush administration's rejection of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, which limited the greenhouse emissions of industrial countries.

Jackson said "we need legislation" to remove any uncertainty that businesses might have.

"The reason for legislation is to take that question out of their minds," she said. "We will work closely with our Congress to pass legislation to lower our greenhouse gases more than 80 percent by 2050."

U.S. business groups have strongly argued against tackling global warming through the Clean Air Act, saying it is less flexible and more costly than the cap-and-trade legislation being considered by Congress

The way I take that section is obama's going to give you the option, get hit hard by the EPA throught the Clean Air Act or just get hit with the cap & tax.

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:03 PM
Please list some of the "good" the government does that we cannot do ourselves. For every one thing you list, there are 100 things that are detrimental to our society. I can list them.

And this "already available money" that in the "surplus"?

The dollar is down by a 1/3 since 2001. Do you know the implications of what that has done to our budget?

It is akin to the derivatives game... For every dollar in the market, there is a 2000 loss waiting on the sidelines that has to be adjusted on the books sometime.

What is so wrong with stepping up to the plate and being self sufficient? Why do we need so much gov't intervention in our daily lives? Mankind has been thru this before (ROME) and look what happened there.

If I am a farmer toiling in my field from dusk till dawn so I can sell my produce for a living, please tell me how gov't intervention could possibly help me. Then go and explain your scenario to today's farmer.

Besides supplying jobs so gov't employees can live in comfort, I really don't see that the government has done much else for our society except put it in such debt that we will never get out from under it. We now have 52% of the population in the USA that works for or is subsidized by the gov't and tax dollars. What do you call that when 48% work for the's on the tip of my tongue.........

There is not one single politician that goes to bed at night and says, "I am so happy I have made Kenochs and theonlyrusty's life better today"....

Maybe getting rid of the fiat money/fractional reserve banking systems would be a start so people could get out from under the money monster.

I'll give you a chicken for a pair of shoes......Think about tax implications and it didn't take money to make it happen.

Washington tries to rule with a blanket policy and it just doesn't work. Making legislation in regard to water purity in Nebraska, doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with the water I get in my house. But the government wants me to believe that. And I can be fined and/or jailed if I don't abide by their laws.

It has's BEEN out of hand for 20 years and it isn't gonna magically correct itself. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is fun for awhile but somehow, somewhere, sometime, it catches up with you. That is where we are at now.

Time for drastic change.


posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:16 PM

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Do you all have a better idea of a way to fix the country?

Removing obama and 95%+ of this congress (especially the leadership) would be a good start.

I can already guess that some people will respond "This is treason". I would respond that this government is and has been engaging in treason for a very long time. In fact, they will be happy to send you proof via FOIA requests on any number of subjects.

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:20 PM
reply to post by theonlyrusty

What do you grow?
What is the subsidy that you receive from the government if any?
Corn? Sugar? Potatoes?

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:25 PM

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Do you all have a better idea of a way to fix the country?

Because, by all means, I don't think sitting around and doing nothing will be of great assistance.

In fact I do..... You see, first of all we use is very uncommon thing called common sense. Yep that's right just a little bit common sense and everything will be okay.

Before I tell you how to fix the country first I might want to point out that you should probably read all the posts before you post something like this. As a previous poster has already pointed out to you, you cannot spend your way out of debt. To think that this is possible, is an absurd notion at best!

The first thing we need to do is to audit and then eliminate the Federal Reserve.

Secondly, we need to vote for real people like Ron Paul and not political puppets of the establishment. ie Obama

And I would say the most important thing we have to do to fix the country is, to educate people about the fact that we are being run by bankers, who couldn't care less whether you are starving or broke.

I would also like to say that we are not sitting around doing nothing we are communicating with like-minded people to share and spread as much information as we possibly can in our time limited, day to day lives. Also, I agree with you, sitting around doing nothing will accomplish nothing. So maybe instead of doing nothing, read a book and educate someone else so at least they have the ability to fighting back and take action.

posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 02:16 PM
Organic apples.

I then sell them at the local farmers market and I am taxed on my profit.

No subsidies accepted.. Can gov't help my profit more? Where does the subsidy money come from? My own tax dollars?

It was just an analogy.

But I do know plenty of farmers in Iowa that would love to get Monsanto and the government out of their lives.

Let's try and keep looking at the big picture.


posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 03:53 AM
reply to post by network dude

No man , sorry , I know this may be the case in some places, but I know most folks in my area have HAD to spend more than they earned because if they didnt, they would have malnourished kids, or no roof over thier heads. And these are working people you understand me ?Poverty happens in the west too. Just having a job doesnt solve the problem.

posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 09:21 AM
The fat lady is not just singing, she is doing 9 octave stretches in the opera!!!!

A Nobel Peace Prize? Guess his "transparency" just came into play..

Another boneheaded move to promote Obama. Does this nobody really believe his own delusional BS?

How does sending 30k more troops to a war deserve a Nobel?

The gov't has got most of you Obama supporters so brainwashed you can't even see the forest cause of the fog you are in.

They actually have you believing that you can accomplish peace thru war. And not only do you support it, you get out there with your flags and banners and say, "Yeah, let's go kill more innocent folks so we can bring about peace"......How crazy is that?

If you are driving to California from New York, you cannot get there by driving East!!!! But you somehow believe that you can bomb others into peacefulness....WOW!!!

I think the first prerequisite for a President that wants to wage war should be that he has to personally execute someone himself. He needs to feel the rush of blowing some terrorists, enemy combatant, enemy troop, potential car bomber, old man, little old lady, child or baby's head off their body. He needs to see the blood flow and smell the guts after they have splattered out of the body. This should also be a prerequisite for all of those in Congress that vote yes to sending troops anywhere. They should be held accountable for their actions and need to know what it feels like firsthand before they commit one more person in the military into live combat.

It is obviously very easy for these disillusioned folks to move human lives around on a game board like chess pieces, never understanding that they are condemning 100's of thousands to death. Matters not which side they are on, it is gonna result in death. How do you obama heads equate that with peace?

War is big business and makes profits for certain folks. Period. If you don't believe it, please name one war that brought peace. Before you answer, ask yourself this...Are we at peace now? I think it is obvious.

Remember, Hitler never killed anyone with his own bare hands; but, he did convince enough people of his ideology that they did it for him.

The similarities in the administrations is uncanny.......

War=Peace..............Hate=Love..........Non Thought=Knowledge.

I swear, some people will belief anything they are told.


posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 09:54 PM
Buncha Pc folks on here or what?

You mean to tell me that I say something about Americas' JESUS and the thread gets shut down?


No bash... what kinda folks is ATS drawing??

Wonder what Phage thinks about the current administration.......hahhaahah


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