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American Indian Lawsuit Settled, U.S. Says - $1.4B to more than 300,000 Tribal Members

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posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Snarf
Except that the land has been stolen, over and over and over again. How far back is acceptable to go before it is said "these are the first people here" ?

Do you really think nobody inhabited these lands pre colonial days? Do you really think that Native Americans are the ONLY people who lived here before the pilgrims?


Who lived there before?
What was stolen?
Tell me about the history please.

Because if you don't know then why even think it.




posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
This is 1.4B worth of dollars that can be spent on anything. Unless these Indians start their own business (which I get the feeling many will not), they will spend it on whatever goods they wish.

Raises demand for said goods, yet supply remains the same...

AKA, after so much of this BS, the prices go up and the real value of the rest of our money goes down.

Does that sound right to everybody?


It says in the article, ...


the Interior Department will distribute a fund of $1.4 billion to more than 300,000 tribe members


So, if the number of people they were giving this money to was only 300,000, that would give each person, if my math is correct, only about $4, 667 each.

Nobodies actually becoming rich off this.

This money will probably just help them get thru these tough times they (and most everybody else) are going through,like it would for me if I was to be one of the recipients of this money.

[edit on 12/9/2009 by Keyhole]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by CowboyDrifter
The thing that really pisses me off is the older generations that hate me because im a white even tho Im trying to help and provide a positive role model for their children.


Look into the history of white people coming onto reservations and trying to help children.

How can you wonder why they resent you?

What exactly do you do on the res and what res is it?



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
The whole native American business is a joke.

Funny, I think the whole white American business is a joke. Who is right?


They have gambling rights and make a ton of money running casinos.
Who is 'they'? Not all tribes have casinos. Is it just the ones who have used capitalizm to their advantage that you have a problem with or are you racist against us all?


They all get a check in the mail from uncle sam every month for every man/woman and child.

This is a BS lie. I dont get a check, neither do my children.

You are an ignorant racist who posts lies.

Why the hate? What did we do to you?



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by angrysniper
I don't have a problem with who they're giving the money to and why.. but I DO have a problem with where they're taking the money FROM.


Excuse me? You, as a nation, ask the government to steal from us then act like a victim when a fraction of the money is returned to us?

Deal with it! Your elected officials did this to us on your behalf and at your request. You did nothing to stop the thieves from using the power you gave them, you are responsible.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by cavscout]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


My read of the linked article has both Good + Bad + Worse....

the $1.4 bn of unpaid 'Royalties' is ok
the $2 bn for education- i.e. Trust Fund for College or Trade Schools for the Blackfeet & others, is also ok


but the Gripe i've got is wrapped in this little sentence:



As the original Native landholders died, successive generations received smaller undivided interests in the same parcels of land, meaning today there may be dozens, hundreds, even thousands of Indian owners per one parcel of land. Consequently, very few individual owners can obtain meaningful financial benefits from their land.


it even gets less of a righteous back-payment of monies due, when you consider that some plots or parcels of land got only perhaps a Royalty on grazing which may only have a return of lets say $50. per year

whereas a family heritage which was awarded a parcel or lease acreage that has mineral rights & gleens a Royalty of lets say $10k per year...

in such cases, the late payment of Royalties...since 1887 & in litigation since 1996...will result in a pittiance for some dedicated parcels of land
& somewhat of a bonanza for other dedicated parcels.

~with no say-so, or input by the 'owners' of the parcels -> as the Govt acts in their behalf (just as they have for the past ~130 years! ??) and contracts for the absolute best Royalty payment on the native americans resource ?
~NOT~

[edit on 9-12-2009 by St Udio]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by chise61
I think it's great that they've won their case and will receive some of the money that they are owed. The only problem is that it couldn't come at a worse time for the taxpayers, and honestly I don't see what good it's going to do for them given that the money that they'll receive isn't worth the paper that it's printed on.

This sounds like the same case that there was a thread about last year, if it is I remember them saying that they wanted all their land back and were trying to go back to their old ways of living off the land. I hope they do, the less they have to deal with & depend on this corrupt government the better off they'll be.


Money that they are owed??????????

"They" were born here. I was born here.

How in hell do "I" owe "them" money?????????

I took nothing from them, they gave me nothing.

I don't owe them anything. I don't owe you anything.

Give them their land back??? What about my land?

Surely my ancestors "had land". Where is that land?
Who took it from my people? When will I be compensated for that which was taken from my ancestors?

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

The "native Americans" were invaded by several nations and organizations over a period of several hundred years. The United States did not act alone in this massacre. The United States did not even exist when it began.

Why is the United States responsible for this "debt"?

I didn't have a damn thing to do with any of it.

I don't own a railroad or a beef ranch or an oil company. I don't even own 40 acres or a mule.

I own a little wooden box which sits on a tiny piece of land just big enough for the wooden box and a smaller box made of steel and plastic so that I might have means to travel to my slave job to work off the taxes which I supposedly owe to you, the indians, and pretty much everyone else.

I don't really even own that stuff. As I said I am taxed heavily for the illusion of ownership.

If they want to give money to the indians..... they should pay the rest of us too, starting with the youngest and work their way back to the oldest people.

Not only that but the other nations involved should pay appropriately as well.... Spain, France, Britain, Mexico and the Netherlands.

It's a bunch of bullcrap. Just another excuse to devalue our currency and everyone knows where the bulk of this money will end up.... in the coffers of the corporations, banks, and politicians.

Were supposed to all be equals in this nation right?

I can't tell.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Snarf
Case in point - where I'm from - a native American tribe called the "Illini" which were wiped out by other American Indian tribes.

If they were wiped out then who will be paid the restitution?

BTW, this is different. In the OP case we are talking about modern examples of contracts being broken and money being stolen. This money is not restitution for hostile treatment in the past.


It just angers me to see our government pay them by taking it from me.


Yet it didnt anger you to see your reps. steal it? Your agents stole it, and you angry that you now have to pay it back?

[edit on 9-12-2009 by cavscout]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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The tribes should never agree to this ripoff.

$1.4 billion sounds like a lot, but is a tiny fraction of what is owed.

For the ignorant (ignorant as in lacking knowledge, not stupid):

Tribes don't lease land to corporations, the BIA does, in their name. And usually, these are sweetheart deals opposed by the tribes. Peabody Coal is a notorious BIA-approved thief, only paying pennies per ton in royalties, but only one of many resource thieves.

www.sourcewatch.org...

What little they were supposed to pay went into the BIA, never to emerge again in Indian hands. For as long as it has existed, the primary function of the BIA was/is to use the tribes as funnel trhough which to pour Indian money into the local economies. Tribes were prevented until just recently from developing any economy that competed with the local white economy. (This is why they went with casinos: the local economies couldn't legally do that.) This meant that any federal money "given" to the tribes never stayed on the reservations: the only thing they were allowed to do with it was spend it, not invest it, and spend it off-res in thw white economy.

To the teacher: Much of what you say is probably misintepretation on your part. My guess is that you wish to turn the young into good American kids, just like any others, and the tribal elders don't want you to do that. Their job is not to help you force assimilation and the disappearance of their culture, their job is to preserve their future as a seperate nation. Most teachers I've seen come to the res to teach us poor ignorant savages were arrogant incompetents or arrogant do-gooders. In the 70s I was in a training program called Indian Action, designed to give us marketable trades in construction while building necessary infrastructure on the res. Sounds good, but the BIA mismanaged it to cause a lot of inefficiencies. Anyway, part of the program required us to be given remedial education onthe assumption that we lacked schooling. Most teachers lasted only a few weeks because they came to teach us what we already knew and most were insulting in their lack of comprehension: one even came with grade-school props to teach us basic math concepts. He left after several of us began asking about advanced math and physics theories he had no clue about: most of us were either in community college or were military vets with extensive experience and knowledge.

Likewise with English, history and every other subject they tried to "teach" us. We were usually better educated than the teacher.

To the guy wanting to strip us of our sovereignty because it's inconvenient: who or what gives you the right to to that? Shall we abolish Kansas because it's surrounded by other states? Nice call there, resident of the land of the free, global defender of freedom, democracy, and human dignity.

To those who think they personally owe nothing because it happened so long ago: get a clue. You derive direct benefits from the misappropriation of Native trust lands: grazing lands, coal, timber, fisheries, uranium and more. When American corporations steal from the tribes with BIA collusion and approval, your 401K benefits from it. You vacation on Indian trust lands. Your argument is that contracts signed by your nation don't bind you personally. Try that argument with other nations when you want to do business with them or take their property.

This "settlement" will extinguish all claims without the consent of the majority the people effected. That's like saying you can't sue for your damages because someone else settled their case against the same corporation in a different state. It won't help the tribes at all: it is just a bigger funnel. It is less than a penny on every dollar owed, quite a deal for the US. For my part I reject it.

This is what wars are made from.

This is an insult to Native Americans.

[edit on 9-12-2009 by apacheman]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 



Well it's obvious that neither side is capable of reaching a compromise. War it is then I guess.

The Indians think they have had so much taken from them. I can't even point to my ancestors because I have no idea who they were or where they originated. I am "European" in appearance, but I also have "native American Indian" blood in my veins. I'm clueless about my ancestry and I barely own a pot to piss in. How am I supposed to feel pity for the "poor" Indians? I don't.

Start drawing the battle lines, I'll meet you there as soon as I'm able to gather an army.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by slimpickens93
 


Who said we can't compromise?

We have always been willing to compromise. It is the Americans who steadfastly refuse either to honor their commitments or set us free.

If Americans would do the honorable thing...but sadly, they have a hard time with honor, their lust for money and power constantly trumps it.

But if war comes, don't expect us to fight like you imagine. Only an idiot fights to an enemy's strength. We would fight to win, not to make a profit or validate a religion. Utterly different kind of fight. And we would define winning in terms you probably wouldn't understand.

But I'd truly rather not, although it does seem inevitable.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


If I survive, I win.

I don't need your "rewards".

I just need you to leave me alone and stop claiming that I owe you something.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by slimpickens93
 


Location: Occupied Territory
very true, occupied territory is very accurate

so why are you against it when your profile location admits it?

it wasn't you, U.S. wasn't in existence yet, etc.. etc... etc..

Iraq, Afghanistan, Soon Iran then Syria, then maybe lebanon then who knows what else.

See where i'm going?
How can you say it was a long time ago when it's still going on today?

The worse worse part of all of this is alot of the people who say it's not their fault what their ancestors did are people who also support the war or support troops fighting the wars.

That is hypocrisy!!



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by Snarf
 


Your argument is irreverent. The Indians were the people occupying the land when we stole it from them. No one else is claiming they were there before the Indians. The Indians were using the land an living there at the time. Even in U.S. law possession is nine tenths of the law.. meaning he who possess, is considered to be he owner.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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So break this down some more.. Who is getting this money and who is not?

What is the criteria for who gets the money?

I believe this may be being done so the Gov can say, " We made restitution it's over"

I agree all American Indian and descendants of Indians who can prove ancestry should get both land and money. Perhaps a whole state just for them, that is tax free for life and everything shipped in discounted. Free utilities! Free housing! Free Education!

And if it drains the American peoples economy I say Screw US!

We should have made this right a LONG time ago. Now some Indians are getting something but it's too little too late.

The American Indians are the ONLY people I would give up my freedom for and I would do it willingly.

This is similar to Hawaii becoming a state in 59. Most of the Polynesian people did not want to be part of the USA. They had a King and a sovereignty of their own. In 1900 we invaded Hawaii and forced their government to yield to our demands of occupation. Through political positioning The US forced the issue and the powers that be in Hawaii conceded. Even though most of the people were against this, they did not have power to fight against the bastardized Pro U.S. government that was in place.

All other U.S. territories have similar history.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


You call me a hypocrite because I object to an oppressive government??

I am American.
I have native ancestors.
I didn't have a choice in either matter.

I pledge allegiance to no flag.
I pledge allegiance to no race.

I believe in individual sovereignty.

How did you ever arrive at the conclusion that I am a hypocrite?



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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So does this 1.4 billion cover the whole deal? I mean now that they've been reimbursed for these resources I would think they no longer need all the other hand outs they currently get, right? Or this is just to tide them over until they figure out something new?

This goes on constantly in Canada. Don't get me wrong, I think they deserve something, but, without fail, what happens is just what happened there: the native peoples will hammer out a deal with the government, the government will cave to all their demands out of guilt, both sides will shake hands and toast equality... then a year will go by, all the money will have been spent and they'll claim they got tricked into accepting too little or they'll come up with a new angle. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Enough is enough imo. Clearly our great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandparrents did a terrible thing in regards to their people, but future generations can't be paying forever. Maybe if they didn't always piss all the money away as soon as it's handed out they'd be in better shape.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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You moron taxpayers within the last ten years got bamboozled for $2.3 Trillion (Pentagon hid it under their bed and cannot find it) and $700 Billion (bail out the rich guys who are making big money from bankruptcies) and are complaining about a couple billion going to an abused and discriminated against race of people who do not have a pot to piss in? And people wonder why the USA is the cesspool capital of the world.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by cavscout
 


Don't give me that racist tripe. I'm sorry that you are not getting a check from the government. Perhaps you should get a bit more aggressive with the government in Nevada.

In Washington, the Indian's are basically the same as the Mafia in the East Coast. They are the most powerful interest group in the state and control the state government. The Puyallup tribe has sole rights to all gambling in the southern Puget Sound and has negotiated land to be "tribal" land in interesting places. Those places tend to be anywhere it makes economic sense to have a casino. Non-Indians can not get a gambling liscence, so the Indians have a total monopoly on the gaming industry. They spiff politicians and judges to keep it that way. They are able to sell tax free liquor and tobacco which locks out non-Indian's from that trade in many cases. Despite the fact that all of those products are legally only allowed to be purchased in quantity that can be consumed on the reservation, you can go there and buy a truck load of liquor and smokes,which folks do. "Hey need any booze? I'm heading over to the reservation tommorrow". They also have a native trust fund paid by the state and they do in fact get $1000/month for every member of their family. Granted, the money is held in trust for children until age 18 (which is a good thing), but it is still a handout.

Lets not forget about the Makah tribe which is located in northern Washington. They fought all the way to the state supreme court to win the "right" to hunt whales. They claimed it was their heritage to hunt whale and that the law against whaling was denying them of that heritage. Great they won the right to hunt one whale a year. You'd think, since they are seeking to get in touch with their history that they would hunt whale the way it was hunted 100 years ago - you know, canoes and harpoons. Nope. They send planes out scouting for whales. They find one and speed over in high-speed boats. When they get to the whale they blast it to death with 40 caliber guns. They also shoot it from helicopters. When it is dead they drag it to the beach and eat it.

As I said, the whole business is a joke



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by slimpickens93
 


Whoa dude slow your roll, I never said that you owed me anything, nor did I say that you owe me any taxes, nor did I say that you owe the American Indians anything.

I'm sorry but I don't know about your land, or your ancestors land. I guess you'll be compensated for it when you find out who took it and prove in a court of law that you should be compensated for it.



The "native Americans" were invaded by several nations and organizations over a period of several hundred years. The United States did not act alone in this massacre. The United States did not even exist when it began.

Why is the United States responsible for this "debt"?


This has nothing to do with them being invaded.

The United States is responsible for this debt because the Department of the Interior did not pay them all of the royalties that they were entitled to for over 100 years. They mismanaged their money, they mismanaged their land, they were responsible for it and being a part of the United States government that makes the United states responsible for it.



The trust began in 1887 with the General Allotment Act (or the Dawes Act), when tribal lands were divided into parcels (between 40 and 320 acres) and allotted to individual Indians, with the remaining land (ultimately about 90 million acres) sold off to non-Native interests. The Interior Department was assigned to manage grazing, timber and oil and gas drilling on the land, and was to pay Indians royalties for those activities.


www.cbsnews.com...

Well you're one up on me because I don't even own a little wooden box that sits on a little piece of land. And you are not the only one that has to pay taxes alright, we all have to pay them, except of course the American Indians.

Do I think that you had anything to do with it, no I don't. I sure didn't have anything to do with it. Do I think that you should have to pay for it, no I don't, just as I don't think that I should have to pay for it. The people that mismanaged their trust and misappropriated their funds should have to pay for it.

However I'm not going to say that they aren't owed the money, because they are, and probably more than they settled for. And while it's true that we shouldn't have to pay out of our pockets for it as we didn't profit from it, that's just the way it is. We'll get stuck holding the bag for it just like we did with the wallstreet bailout, the auto bailout, etc, and just like we get stuck holding the bag for every bogus war they get us into, and all of their other screw ups.

Believe me I'm just as fed up with all this crap as you are, we all are, but it's never going to change until we get up off our butts and get these corrupt officials out of our government and start fresh with officials that remember that they work for us, listen to us, and know how to run a country.




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