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An American Soldiers Perspective, My Perspective

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posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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If you hate war mongering and killing to survive, maybe you shouldnt have joined the army controlled by Satan himself.




posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Mindmelding
reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 


You're a volunteer, what you have is Karma. If you don't like it, leave.

I made my own personal choice long ago to stand for peace, and peace is what I live. Even if I were drafted I would say no. The way I would defend my fellow human is to lay down my life before I ever took one. Just like someone else did, long ago.

It's all about choices my friend. You don't have to justify yours to me, and couldn't if you tried. But can you really justify it to yourself?


If your life choice is to live in peace and not enlist then cookies for you. I don't care what your choices are THERE YOUR CHOICES BECAUSE SOMONE DIED FOR YOUR FREEDOME TO HAVE THEM! Oh at let me help you out because your one of the select few I was talking about. The reason you have that freedome ISNT because somone Layed down their life before taking another!

But EVEN STILL I SAY TO YOU That is your choice. I aplaud you for your ability to do that.

Finaly I dont have to justify my choices to myself. I stand behind everything I have done in life, no exceptions. Had I not made a choice to take a life I may not be here right now, niether would some of my friends.

That is the differance between me and you, your a monday morning quarterback and im a player in the game. Perhaps if you spent some time outside of your box you would start seeing the world for what it is, and not through your filtered view.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 02:38 PM
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I think the problem many people have is differentiating between people on the ground like you, and the higher ups who are in charge. The majority of people in your group are very good, hard working people. I do believe however that the higher ups have less respect for life. I think the overall purpose for being in iraq is a scam and bad, however that has nothing to do with people in your position.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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Thank you. I appreciate your service. Thanks for volunteering to fight first and follow the orders that you're given. Unfortunately your orders have VERY LITTLE to do with protecting American's freedoms or liberties.

I sit here and type this because I want to. Not because you're fighting in the military and providing this "liberty" to me. There are millions in the world that do the same thing I am doing and their country has NO Army.

When was the last time you were in Washington addressing Congress about the latest Homeland Security Bill? When was the last time someone told me, you or anybody else that they can't say what they wanted?

I hate to be crude. I REALLY do appreciate your service in our military, but to my knowledge, you haven't lifted a finger to protect my freedom from those that are a threat to it.

You've followed your orders and I thank you for your service. But, please, spare me the melodramatic rhetoric of "protecting my freedoms", because unless you've stood in Congress and debated some of the legislation that's being passed that REALLY DOES effect my freedom to view a web page or the right to tap my phone, you've done squat to protect my freedom or liberty.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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I joined the Army going full well what it would have in store for me, frankly I expected worse than what I got but unfortunatly the Army was the only direction I could go to besides ruin.

I am born in the Netherlands and my wife is American (she got diagnosed with MS only months into our marriage), we tried to move to my country with the dreaded social healthcare which took care of her when she was there but since the job market was scarce over there I couldn't get a permanent job (a requirement since the Dutch work on contracts that last for a certain ammount of time and you have to be hired permanently with a fixed contract)

We moved back to the US and I worked at Wal-Mart on a green card, my wife wasn't getting the medical care she needed expect for what NORD (National Organization for Rare Diseases) gave her.

We paid for all our doctor visits in full.

I was sick of being treated like a no one for working hard at Wal-Mart (and I was working hard every day) and get minimal paychecks relying on every social support we could get.

I joined the Army because it gave me the opertunity for a better life, I am now 28 years old and have been in for nearly 3 years now, i'm a Specialist E4 working on my Sergeant.

As the Sergeant who started this post I have been trying to stay out of the war because I A) don't believe in it, B) have a wife that needs me.

I lucked out, my first duty station was in Korea which didn't deploy and my current duty station is in Fort Sill in TRADOC training new privates coming through AIT (Advanced Individual Training, which comes after Basic Combat Training).

My scheduele is long and hard over here and takes alot out of me but every day i'm grateful I can be back with my wife whom I love so much.

I would fight overseas for my life, the life of my buddies and the people we defend over there and first and foremost, for the wellfare of my wife.

The government has FAILED to provide the ordinary citizen with what they need on a daily basis but they give it to everyone willing to fight and die for this country regardless if the war is legit or not, the war is declared by politicians, it's our job to fight it, we get paid for it and it's as simple as that.

Every war has known collateral damage, it's a sad part of war that sometimes inocents are being caught in the crossfire, but the ENEMY out there is taking those lives INTENTIONALLY! they kill women, children and grown men alike! to spread THEIR ideals, and you call US baby killers?

Many men have been mentally afflicted by the war that is being fought, guess what? some become unstable and some were bad apples to begin wtih, but we deal with them, we won't allow inocents being slaughtered by some sick person! we deal with them.

The Marines throwing puppies off of a cliff or the GI's in Vietnam shooting up villages and inocents are those bad apples and they get dealt with for committing war crimes.

There is no good or bad in war, everyone is equally evil and contributing to the evil because this society can not take care of it's citizens who work in peace.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by VonDoomen
 


THANK YOU!! FINALY SOMONE GETS IT!!!


This is exactly what I have been trying to get across to everyone from the begining!

Its not about the polotics, or the money, or the oil. Its about protecting the soldiers because they dont know or see the big picture. All they know is being a good soldier, and keeping thier friends alive. THATS IT! Star to you my friend!



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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I've served myself and I can understand your situation.

I wish I could say Americas politicans have been as honorable as its soldiers. There is no escaping we are in Iraq because of lies, lies we as a nation let happen and we have not called their originators to task. So many people have died on both sides, so much blood and treasure flushed away. If we had never invaded and Sadam was still alive today would that really be so bad? How many son and daughters of the world would be alive today that are now in the grave? how many children would they of had? what potential have we squandered away on wars begun on failed intelligence?

I yearn for justice to be served and peace to prevail.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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I have never served, but I know people who have and they have all said the same things you have said. When I see an AMERICAN in Military clothing, I thank them. It pisses me off to no END what some people say about these brave men and women fighting this fight for us! I thank you and ALL Military personnel for what they have done, are doing and will do! These people who say these horrible things about our Military, they are weak, cowards that would NEVER have the guts to do anything these brave men and women have done...... they aren't 1/1000000000000 the person that our Military soldiers are! Thank you for ALL you have done! My cousin is at West Point, I want his leader, our President, his Commander in Chief, to fight for the Military and stand up for all of them, not put them down, lie and bash them.....of course, with the current one this will not happen.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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I'll keep this short and simple...

I hope you and yours have a happy holiday. I'm proud of you and the men you served with like my buddy, Shane who does recon for the Army. I know most of you don't want to be there and don't like killing in the name of anything other than Liberty and Freedom, but orders are orders and I assume you have fulfilled yours appropriately. Good Luck, brother!!!



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 


Don't worry about this peoplesoldier guy. People like him don't live in reality, they aren't realists. They believe you can sit down and talk to people and make things all better......They have no clue! They have no values, they have no heart, they have no guts, I can go on and on and on and on....... They think everything is okay and everything will be okay, lets all sit down and discuss why you want to kill amercians. Little do people like him realize, there is no talking, there is no compromising with these people. They want you, me and him dead just the same.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by Victoria 1
I have never served, but I know people who have and they have all said the same things you have said. When I see an AMERICAN in Military clothing, I thank them. It pisses me off to no END what some people say about these brave men and women fighting this fight for us!


Excuse me, but why is the Iraq war being fought for us? Don't give me that b/s about fighting for our freedoms. maybe to find terrorists?





I thank you and ALL Military personnel for what they have done, are doing and will do! These people who say these horrible things about our Military, they are weak, cowards that would NEVER have the guts to do anything these brave men and women have done...... they aren't 1/1000000000000 the person that our Military soldiers are!


You're right I do not have the guts as they do, what is your point? So suddenly this world is about bravery and weakness? The problem as I see it is that your trying to justify this war by calling these people brave, well, sure they are brave, robots are brave too.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Victoria 1
reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 


Don't worry about this peoplesoldier guy. People like him don't live in reality, they aren't realists. They believe you can sit down and talk to people and make things all better......They have no clue! They have no values, they have no heart, they have no guts, I can go on and on and on and on....... They think everything is okay and everything will be okay, lets all sit down and discuss why you want to kill amercians. Little do people like him realize, there is no talking, there is no compromising with these people. They want you, me and him dead just the same.


This is what is wrong with the world today. You think you could solve all your problems by destroying the opposition. I believe you should sit down and talk to people, because in the end they are all human. Not every Muslim person wants to blow you up, or kill you. Some might want to, but could you really blame them? I mean, if I invaded your country and possessed a massive military with advanced technology would you fight me head on?

And can you clarify what you mean by "these people"? Go to the 9/11 forum and dig up posts to come to your own conclusion. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq could have never happened without 9/11.

As a super power nation the US should lead by example. Why are they only out to get the US? What about China, Canada, Russia, and all these big nations? Why is it specifically the United States that these Al Qaeda monsters are after?



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 


I cant stand to see people giving fellow soldiers grief


After reading some of the posts on here by these "bleeding hearts/peace lovers" I have an idea.

Since you refuse to fight, refuse to serve your country, refuse to show respect to the people who risk their lives, I have the perfect plan for you.
We can put all of you hippies on an island, where you'll have everything you need to live. It will be paradise. Then, when you are invaded, killed, raped, and enslaved, see how long it takes for you to cry for help from US soldiers. You'll learn very quickly how important it is to have a well trained, well armed, and feared military ready and willing to defend people like the "peace loving hippies" who will not and can not defend themselves.

So you think that fighting wars anywhere else but american soil is futile and has no correlation in defending our nation? Think back to when you were a little kid, since you refuse to fight now, i assume you refused back then as well. Remember those kids that went around bullying and stealing lunch money? Did you ever have the pleasure of seeing some brave kid stand up to one? By dealing with a bully on the playground and showing him you will not be afraid to fight, the chances of him coming to your house and stealing your bike are much less. The bully would much rather go steal the bike of some kid who he knows will not fight back. Think about that scenario the next time you bash any of our brave men and women who devote their lives to protect you pansies. Or keep it up, and picture having some somalian pirates come and take your wife and children.

There will always be people in the world looking to take advantage of others, whether you deal with them somewhere else, or you play the non confrontational stance, and they eventually come and deal with you.

[edit on 8-12-2009 by WhiteDevil013]

[edit on 8-12-2009 by WhiteDevil013]



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 


Don't give me the "you've got choices because someone died" croc. That's a fairytale you got fed so you'd feel noble about what you do. It's a complete and utter lie. Nobody died for me to be free, I am free in principle, in my mind. I don't need an army to protect me from another army, when two armies collide you don't have the protection of freedom, we just have a human tragedy and loss of life as young impressionable males piss their lives away for a flag, banner or a wage. It's not the defense of freedom, it's the exploitation of man, underlined in blood red. Men who let their hormones overtake their minds.

Get this through your head: Men fight because they want to, not because they have to. There is always a way out, it's a complex universe, but so many are scared of the unknown to a point where they would rather accept a reality that is bad.

War was never noble. And it was never necessary. It has always been the creation of psychopaths, who lie and manipulate the gullible until they find themselves mind-controlled into a position where they think that they have to fight.

Maybe sometime in the hard times ahead you'll find yourself bashing some peaceful disobedient, and at that point, where you realize you're the one in the wrong, you're the one manifesting evil, you may learn something about yourself.

It's all about choices.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by VonDoomen
I think the problem many people have is differentiating between people on the ground like you, and the higher ups who are in charge. The majority of people in your group are very good, hard working people. I do believe however that the higher ups have less respect for life. I think the overall purpose for being in iraq is a scam and bad, however that has nothing to do with people in your position.


You can empower someone with your energy yet not be responsible for what he does with it? Sorry to burst your bubble but reality does not work that way. We all have free choice, and every single person who pulls a trigger is responsible for that action.

Iraq has everything to do with people in his position, because they, when push comes to shove, are the ones doing it. Because they are willing to obey orders and not put much thought as to why. Because they are uncapable of realizing that a terrorist action, even if resulting in the death of thousands, does not justify international warfare at the cost of millions.

The way to have saved lives after 911 would have been to grieve and move on. What many people fighting now have to own up to is their own bloodlust and missguided desire for revenge, all negative emotions that have manifested evil on this earth.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by doped00
 





How could I let an organization called the government, as shady, greedy, and corrupt as they are, control me like that


And that is the exact reason why our government has some of the issues it has today. Apathy.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier
 


boo hoo, i don't buy it.


You helped invade a sovereign nation, overthrew the existing government and set up a puppet dictatorship.

Meanwhile, your fellow citizen's civil libertys have been whittled away.

1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF SPEECH
• The Patriot Act broadly expands the official definition of
terrorism, so that many domestic groups that engage in
nonviolent civil disobedience could very well find themselves
labeled as terrorists.
• The Government may now prosecute librarians or keepers
of any other records if they reveal that the government
requested information on their clients or members in the
course of an investigation. It has become a crime for these
individuals to try to safeguard your privacy or to tell you
that you are under investigation.
1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION
• Government agents may now monitor the First Amendmentprotected
activities of religious and political institutions, and
then infiltrate these groups with no suspicion of criminal
activity. This is a return to domestic spying on law-abiding
religious and political groups.
• You may now be the subject of a government investigation
simply because of the political, activist, or advocacy
groups you are involved in, or the statements you make
within these groups.
1st AMENDMENT RIGHT TO ACCESS
GOVERNMENT INFORMATION
• A U.S. Department of Justice directive actively encourages
federal, state, and local officials to resist and/or limit access
to government records through Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA) requests.
• The Government has conducted immigration hearings in
secret behind closed doors. Such proceedings were once
open to the public. Hundreds, if not thousands, of immigrants
have already been deported in secret.
4th AMENDMENT FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE
SEARCHES &SEIZURES
• Law Enforcement authorities may now conduct secret searches and wiretaps in your home or office
without showing “probable cause.” They need only to claim that intelligence gathering is “a significant
purpose” of their intrusion, even when the primary goal is ordinary law enforcement. They may also
monitor where and to whom you send and receive e-mail, or where you go on the Internet, recording
every e-mail address and website you have been in contact with.
• Law Enforcement may now demand any personal records held by any source including your doctor,
employer, accountant, or library. All they have to do is claim that it is related to an investigation into
“terrorism.” The record keepers may not reveal that your records were provided to the government.
• Judicial oversight of secret searches has been effectively minimized. The Patriot Act directs judges to
consent to secret searches based only on the Government’s assertion that a “significant” purpose of
an investigation is gathering information related to “terrorism,” as the government defines it.
5th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS & FREEDOM FROM BEING
HELD WITHOUT CHARGE
• Americans can now be jailed without a formal charge & without the right to confront the witnesses or
evidence against them. American citizens are now being held in military jails without charge and without
a clear path of appeal for their indefinite confinement.
• Hundreds of Arab, Muslim and South Asian men were rounded up in the Ashcroft raids following
September 11, and held for weeks without charges until all were cleared of terrorism charges
6th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION
• Hundreds of U.S. residents have been detained for months at a time, and denied access to the advice
and advocacy of an attorney. The Government may now monitor conversations between attorneys &
clients in federal jails.
• The Bush Administration filed papers in court that arguing that an American citizen held in a military
jail without charge should be denied access to legal counsel because such access would interfere with
the process of his interrogation.
6th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL
• The U.S. Government may now jail its residents and citizens indefinitely without charge & without a public trial.
8th AMENDMENT FREEDOM FROM CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENTS
• The U.S. Government has taken into custody individuals they identify as “material witnesses,” transported
them across the country, and held them for months in solitary confinement without charge or
contact with their family.
• According to the Justice Department’s own Inspector General, immigrant men rounded up in the
Ashcroft raids following September 11 and held in the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, NY
were subjected to a pattern of “physical and verbal abuse.”
14th AMENDMENT RIGHT TO EQUAL PROTECTION
• Over 82,000 men from Arab, Muslim and South Asian countries registered with the Government
under the Special Registration program. Over 13,000 are now in deportation proceedings. None
have been charged with terrorism.

You're my hero.

/sarcasm



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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Well, just to comment on your part about talking to Iraqis and them liking the US being there, they're probably lying to you.

Look up the reports Congress made on slavery back during Reconstruction. The first reports, they sent white people out to interview former slaves and they all said that being slaves was peachy and there were no abuses, no problems, etc. From those reports, you'd think that black people loved being slaves.

Congress thought 'wtf' and then did the same thing again but with black interviewers. And they reported how we know today the conditions of slavery were back then.

So, if a black person isn't even going to tell a white person that slavery sucked, what do you think an Iraqi is going to tell a guy with a gun in a unit with thousands of guns in an army with millions of thousands of guns that invaded his country what he thinks about the US occupation?

To put that in even more perspective, imagine if the black people weren't just being interviewed by random white people but by former slave owners who were occupying their share-cropping houses at gunpoint.

Hope you see what I'm getting at here..



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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Here is a statement, a collection of them actually for all my brothers in "Combat Arms", from a 19Delta who saw Iraq of 07 in the Diyala Province.

To each other we know, as for the rest of you keep in mind;

King Jr., Martin Luther
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

Adams, John Quincy "Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it."

Kennedy, John F.
"There are risks and costs to a program of action. But they are far less than the long-range risks and costs of comfortable inaction."



We dare not forget that we are the heirs of that first revolution. ~John F. Kennedy


We have enjoyed so much freedom for so long that we are perhaps in danger of forgetting how much blood it cost to establish the Bill of Rights. ~Felix Frankfurter

Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain

This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave. ~Elmer Davis

If our country is worth dying for in time of war let us resolve that it is truly worth living for in time of peace. ~Hamilton Fish

Kennedy, John F.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek another flag. ~Author Unknown

Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, What should be the reward of such sacrifices? Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plow, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom--go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!
Samuel Adams

[edit on 8-12-2009 by ADVISOR]



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by rainfall

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier

Finally I leave you with this. We do what we do because we are ordered to.


That quote is what I have a problem with....

You guys are paid career killers...taking orders....

Before you start slaughtering people, shouldn't you at least know 'why?'...

Let's grow up and start going after the corrupt bankers that are running this show, they are the 'real terrorists'.....

You soldiers are just disposable pawns in a rich mans game of chess...


Well said.



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