Your Date With Destiny: Meeting the Real Jesus

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posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 


It seems like Every path Ive been down regarding the Bible tens to lead me in the same direction. There is always truths but never a definitive answer.Maybe God has set it up that way so we are guided by our faith

Thanks for your help.




posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
Yes we are clear you and I, Solid. However, I would really like some clarification from Bad Media.


I do not know Jesus, I do not know that he existed. But what I do know is the father. What I do know is the understanding the father gives. And when I read the words of Jesus in the bible, I see the father. I don't see "Jesus", I see the understanding of the father.

I recognize the father within Jesus, that is how I know he is true. I have no problem with believing such a person has existed, and if he did exist, then he was certainly the truth, the way and the light in the flesh.

I learned what I know outside the bible. I learned directly from the father. The father taught me all the things Jesus says and does. At the time, I did not have the first clue Jesus said them. It was months later that I found out that Jesus said these things.

If the father were not in Jesus, then he would not be able to speak and do the things he does - and I'm not talking about miracles such as walking on water. The understanding he speaks comes from only 1 place, and I know that place.

But even if Jesus did not exist, then the words written and attributed to Jesus are still from the father - and that is what matters the most.

I'm not sure why you think what I say is odd. It shouldn't be, it's what Jesus says too.

John 10. Jesus tells the jews - if I do not do the works of the father, then believe me not. But since I do, then believe me. That is no different than what I am saying really. The above is how I know Jesus is true. I know Jesus is telling the truth based on what he says and does.

You could flat out prove 100%, without a doubt that Jesus did not exist, and I would not care at all. Why? Because I know the father does exist, and I know what Jesus speaks of is of the father. And so it is for that same reason I have no problem thinking he did exist. I'd say the chances are much higher such a person did exist, than such a person have not existed.

Even if Jesus did not physically exist, the things he said and did are STILL TRUE. Even if Jesus did not physically exist, what he did is still the way, it is still the truth, and it is still the light. How do I know? Because I know the father. If he did not do the will of the father, if he did not say the understanding of the father - then I would not believe him at all.

Now, in terms of people who do not understand, they do NOT at all need to understand the above. AT ALL. They do not need to believe the father is within Jesus. Think that is what Randy is referring too.



John 14

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


See that? it is not "Jesus" who did those things to begin with, it was the father I know. Jesus is just a vessel used by the father to help people gain understanding, and to show them the way and so forth. The glory is not in "Jesus", but in the father. Jesus says this over and over.

But take careful notice of verse 11. OR ELSE. Meaning, if you don't understand the father is within him, no problem. You can atleast believe for the very works sake. You can atleast see why what he did and say was true and so forth, and you can follow his example for that reason alone. By doing just that little bit, then the person would be walking the path, and the rest will come to them in time.

As it is the minimum one can do, then it should be something that all do.



John 14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.


By believing for the very works sake, and following in his example, that is exactly what they will do. Keep the commandments.

What do you think it means to "believe" in Jesus? To accept his idol? Not even close. Jesus is called the "word in the flesh" because he represents things of the OT. For example, the last supper. Well, the last supper is also in Proverbs 9. The last supper is the physical/flesh version of it. Where Jesus plays the role of wisdom and understanding.

Jesus represents many DEEPER things than just a being and so forth. And it is those things he represents that matters the most. The father showed me to NOT focus on the messengers, but to instead focus on the message itself - for that is the purpose of the messenger.

To worship the idol of Jesus, rather than to understand him is like you giving a bowl of milk to a cat. And rather than the cat drinking the milk you gave to him, the cat instead decides to worship the bowl, never touching the milk.

Sorry, but there are much deeper things in what Jesus does, that an idol doesn't even being to capture.

And just so we are clear - if I did not disappoint you, then you did not understand me. Because I know what you believe.



John 14

19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.


If by Jesus there, we mean a physical being named Jesus. Then I know him not, I see him not.



6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


But if we mean Jesus as in the way he defines himself there, as the way, the truth and the life, then I know him well. And I do know the father, which is where my understanding comes from. All my understanding came when I experienced John 14:20.





[edit on 12/8/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


Hello Badmedia! Hope all is well with you!

I am just gong to add here in response to you, but I am really just adding to some things you have said, for others.

When you walking the path of seeking understanding, through the Holy Spirit, you can discern what the nature of God is...this allows one to discern the what the nature would be of another being, if the Holy Spirit was guiding them.

This is why you will see some who takes certain things from the Bible, or any other material....with discernment, for they are being guided by a higher self. Faith is not about accepting a book word for word. God doesnt expect us to believe scribes 100%. God expects us to walk in the way, so the Holy Spirit can guide us and give us discernment, so we can test everything and anything. Even things that are written about God and Jesus.

If a message resonates that has to do with a deeper wisdom, this can happen through many materials. The person doesnt have to be in the Bible to of been the only ones that gained wisdom.

Our bodies are made in a way to be instruments, that can vibrate at a certain nature, so we can be filled with understanding. The environment and nature was also made to aid us in seeking and understanding. Anything that contains life can bring one a understanding.

Just adding, some thoughts
LV



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
When you walking the path of seeking understanding, through the Holy Spirit, you can discern what the nature of God is...this allows one to discern the what the nature would be of another being, if the Holy Spirit was guiding them.


Yes, because it is understanding. And it's like math. Right and wrong becomes as clear as telling the difference between 1+1=2 and 2+2=1 and know those are true or false.



This is why you will see some who takes certain things from the Bible, or any other material....with discernment, for they are being guided by a higher self. Faith is not about accepting a book word for word. God doesnt expect us to believe scribes 100%. God expects us to walk in the way, so the Holy Spirit can guide us and give us discernment, so we can test everything and anything. Even things that are written about God and Jesus.


Yes, there is a difference between blind faith and faith. Faith is based on understanding, blind faith is based on acceptance(Psalm 82). Those who accept do not understand, and thus they walk in darkness(blind).

As we can not give each other understanding directly(can not give as he father does), we have to find ways to express that. And that is what the bible is good for. To help with the expressions. To help people talk about these things. We need labels in languages, and so a common source like the bible helps up express things.

For example, the holy spirit. Now, when I experienced these things and gained understanding, I didn't think of it as the "holy spirit". It's just something that just "was". It was completely devoid of labels and such. But when I see the bible, I understand that what is called the "holy spirit" is what I experienced. And so, for communication and expression purposes, it is easier that I can say "holy spirit", and then you will know what I mean.

So the bible helps us express the understandings.



Matthew 7

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.


So, if you accept the scribes as the authority, then you are accepting the expression outright, and thus no understanding. But, when you are the authority, then you are using the bible to express the understandings you have.

Just gotta have things in their proper place is all. And when people elevate the scribes to the authority, the bible to the authority, then it's just like the Pharisees sitting in the seat of moses(not in their proper place).

So yep, agree completely.



If a message resonates that has to do with a deeper wisdom, this can happen through many materials. The person doesnt have to be in the Bible to of been the only ones that gained wisdom.


Yes, which is why the entire world isn't condemned as some Christians like to make it out to be. If a person seeks understanding, they will find it. No matter what their culture is. Also exactly the reason why a 1 world religion is bad, and why Christians who don't understand push for 1 world religion.



Our bodies are made in a way to be instruments, that can vibrate at a certain nature, so we can be filled with understanding. The environment and nature was also made to aid us in seeking and understanding. Anything that contains life can bring one a understanding.


This I understand, but don't exactly agree with. I'm not saying you are wrong about the vibrations, except to say it is only a single perspective, and if you look at the vibrations without the presence of "time", then you will see that the only true "energy" of existence is the father(life), and that the universe/creation/physical/flesh itself is dead.

I understand why you see it that way, and it's not exactly wrong. It's a pretty big step ahead of most. Seeing things without "time" isn't an easy thing to do. Just different levels etc. Perspective is all that changes between them, and time is simply a function of perspective.

But you are right about the environment and nature aiding in understanding and so forth. Life is just a big lesson, a school of sorts. To learn new things is the joy in life, and the entire point. It's why kids are so happy with the simplest of things etc.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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The second coming has to be initiated by us. Why should he come back, reveal himself, if we haven't changed? We come here to learn and develop, sort of defeats the purpose coming back before we have changed. Not to mention there would be no free will in choosing God or not, if there was direct proof for our intellects.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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Jesus: "Do not cease seeking day or night, and do not let yourselves relax until you have found all the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Light, which will purify you and make you into Pure Light and lead you into the Kingdom of Light."

Jesus: "Do not desist from seeking by day and by night, until you find the purifying mysteries of the light, which refine the body of matter and make it a pure light very refined."

Jesus: "Those who say that first they shall die and (then) they shall arise are confused. If they do not first receive the resurrection (while) they live, they will not receive anything (when) they die"

beingoflight.brotherofyeshua.com...



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 



I do not know Jesus, I do not know that he existed. But what I do know is the father. What I do know is the understanding the father gives. And when I read the words of Jesus in the bible, I see the father. I don't see "Jesus", I see the understanding of the father.


How could you claim to know the father and not know Jesus, when Jesus is the only way to cometh unto the father?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


I recognize the father within Jesus, that is how I know he is true. I have no problem with believing such a person has existed, and if he did exist, then he was certainly the truth, the way and the light in the flesh
.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Who revealed the Father to you?


I learned what I know outside the bible. I learned directly from the father. The father taught me all the things Jesus says and does. At the time, I did not have the first clue Jesus said them. It was months later that I found out that Jesus said these things.

Then why do you keep quoting the Bible?


But even if Jesus did not exist, then the words written and attributed to Jesus are still from the father - and that is what matters the most.


If Jesus did not exist there would be no words written and attributed to him period. How could there be?


I'm not sure why you think what I say is odd. It shouldn't be, it's what Jesus says too.

I find it disturbing to say the least.


I know Jesus is true

Then you Know that he existed.

Even if Jesus did not physically exist
,
But you just said that you know Jesus is true.

the things he said and did are STILL TRUE.

How can someone who may not exist say things and do things?

Even if Jesus did not physically exist

Im starting to get dizzy

what he did is still the way

If he did something he must have existed. WHICH ONE IS IT ?


Now, in terms of people who do not understand, they do NOT at all need to understand the above. AT ALL. They do not need to believe the father is within Jesus.


John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

And speaking of Jesus,

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I would think its a good idea to believe the father is within Jesus, if salvation means anything..


And just so we are clear - if I did not disappoint you, then you did not understand me. Because I know what you believe

Sorry to say but you have.

I really believe that you believe that God gave you the knowledge of knowing him. However, Just because you have the knowledge of knowing him "out side the Bible", He gave the rest of us the knowledge of knowing him by reading and studying the Bible,Thats what it's here for.

Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And according to what the Scriptures say you are spewing contradiction.

One last question again, If you learned what I know outside the bible, Why do you habitually quote from it?



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by oliveoil

How could you claim to know the father and not know Jesus, when Jesus is the only way to cometh unto the father?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


He is saying he is the way, the truth and the life for a reason. Jesus represents more than a person/idol. It has deeper meaning.

Further down in the chapter you quoted.



John 14

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.






Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Who revealed the Father to you?


Well, my/the father did of course.



John 14:20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

....
Proverbs 8

17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.





If Jesus did not exist there would be no words written and attributed to him period. How could there be?


The same way Neo on the Matrix exists, or any other character in a story? Not that I'm saying that is the case, but that is how it could be.


I find it disturbing to say the least.


church dogma.



Then you Know that he existed.


Not in the manner you speak of I don't.


But you just said that you know Jesus is true.


I know that what he says and does is true. I know that what he says and does is the will of the father. That is the extent of my knowledge of Jesus. The father NEVER once ever mentioned the name Jesus to me, or any other such person. But he definitely showed me the truth, the way and the life. If you want to call the truth, the way and the life "Jesus, then fine I know him well. But if you want to put it in the context of a being name Jesus, as you did before, then I don't know him. Right or wrong, I dunno. That is just the truth of the matter as I know it. I have no problems with Jesus existing and really hope such is true. It would certainly be a more dismal existence without such a being, but then is it the father you are talking about, or Jesus?

So it completely depends on the context.


How can someone who may not exist say things and do things?


Let me tell you bout a man name Jeb, poor mountaineer that barely kept his family feed. Is Jeb real?



If he did something he must have existed. WHICH ONE IS IT ?


What is attributed to him is the way, be it made up or real. Either way, it's true.



John 10:30 I and my Father are one.


John 14:20.



And speaking of Jesus,

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


That's not Jesus, that is Paul. While Jesus is everything the father taught me to do, Paul is the everything the father taught me not to do. I do not see the father in Paul.



I would think its a good idea to believe the father is within Jesus, if salvation means anything..


Where as you believe Salvation is found in the death of Jesus, I find it is found in his life and his example. I do not believe in the blood sacrifice, and think it is a satanic ritual. It is to say the truth must die in order for you to live.



I really believe that you believe that God gave you the knowledge of knowing him. However, Just because you have the knowledge of knowing him "out side the Bible", He gave the rest of us the knowledge of knowing him by reading and studying the Bible,Thats what it's here for.


If we want to build a house, we need a roof, some walls and a foundation. If we put the foundation of that house above the roof, then that house is going to fall. We can go out and get the highest quality of materials, and still that house is going to fall.

Why does it fall? Is it because the roof, the walls or the foundation are "bad"? Or is it because they were not in their proper place? Because they were not in their proper places, they were unable to do the job they were designed for.

With the bible, where you and others go wrong is you elevate the bible into the word of god. And when you do that, you are doing the same thing as putting the foundation above the roof. You will not have proper understanding and your house is going to fall. You are going to be subjected to deception and so forth.

So, scripture is great when used properly. It can provide words of wisdom, common terms to help in the communication and so forth. But when you elevate it into the word of god, then it becomes a replacement for the true word of god.




One last question again, If you learned what I know outside the bible, Why do you habitually quote from it?


For you. Do you think Jesus needed scripture when he quoted it?

It is the holy spirit, not the bible that teaches. The bible helps express that which the holy spirit teaches. While I learned outside the bible, and it was months before I found the bible, I found the bible extremely quick once I started to try and express that which I came to understand. I don't think that is a coincidence.

But if you put me with an Indian tribe, I would speak and express it in the manner in which they put it. If you put me with Jews, I would stick mostly with the OT. If you put me in the far east, I would learn the sayings of Buddha. If you put me in the middle east, I would learn the sayings of Islam. etc.

Why? For the same reason you take a translator program to a foreign country.

Since I live in America, it's the bible and Jesus mostly.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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And btw, John 10.



30I and my Father are one.

31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


When he says, is it not written in your law. He is quoting Psalm 82.



Psalm 82

1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.


8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.


This is why his trial was an injustice. Because when asked if he is the son of god, all he ever does is quote Pslam 82.

He presents it in that way, as to ask the Jews - why do you think it odd that I say this. They thought it odd because they did not understand.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 09:31 AM
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To those who think they are gods ...
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

are you gods ? ...yes gods of this world as is satan the god of this world..
if you are a god of this world then you are of your father the devil ............and will die like men .





1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Notice it says those who confesseth not that Jesus is come in the flesh is NOT OF GOD >.

So either you confess that JESUS did come in the flesh (FOR REAL) Or he did not ..

See why you MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS first before you can believe what he says.....you have to believe that he was true before you can believe what he says was truth ..

Now do you believe that HE CAME IN THE FLESH or not ?
If you do not believe that then you are an antichrist ...

1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

He that is NOT OF GOD ...heareth not us (HEARS NOT WHOM ?) THE APOSTLES *WHO WROTE THE NT ........those who WALKED WITH CHRIST and were WITNESSES to the TESTIMONY OF JESUS ..who have said in the BOOK (THE BIBLE) in their writings that JESUS DID COME IN THE FLESH .

If you do NOT BELIEVE that JESUS CAME IN THE FLESH ,.,then you are ANTICHRIST ....
Thats pretty cut and dried I would say .......


How can anyone say they believe someone (Like Jesus) and yet NOT EVEN KNOW IF THEY BELIEVE THAT HE WAS REAL AND DID EXIST ????
Contradictory isnt it ...



PS >..The Jews who killed Christ believed they were gods as well ...So does the Pope ..etc ...that should make you think twice about being a god Badmedia ........because you fit right in with believing the same way as the authority that you hate so much

[edit on 9-12-2009 by Simplynoone]

[edit on 9-12-2009 by Simplynoone]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


I said,

How could you claim to know the father and not know Jesus, when Jesus is the only way to cometh unto the father?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


You said,

He is saying he is the way, the truth and the life for a reason. Jesus represents more than a person/idol. It has deeper meaning.

Further down in the chapter you quoted.


John 14

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Correct me if I am wrong but what you are telling me now is that the Holy Ghost who the Father has sent has given you your knowledge .
if this is true than you are contradicting you self. I I could quote you
"I learned directly from the father"



I said,
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Who revealed the Father to you?


you said,
Well, my/ the father did of course


How could this be when in John 14:26 it says that it is the Holy Ghost who teaches.
Which one is it the Father or the Holy Ghost?


I said,

If Jesus did not exist there would be no words written and attributed to him period. How could there be?


You said,

The same way Neo on the Matrix exists, or any other character in a story? Not that I'm saying that is the case, but that is how it could be.


So you are not sure?


I said,
And speaking of Jesus,

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


You said,

That's not Jesus, that is Paul. While Jesus is everything the father taught me to do, Paul is the everything the father taught me not to do. I do not see the father in Paul.


2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Notice the word ALL. You either believe ALL scripture or none.

What you are doing is cherry picking verses and contorting what the bible teaches as a whole.

I know you mean well but this is not how the Bible should be viewed.

There is a good book out there called Theology for beginners by F.J. Sheed.
You could sure use it.





[edit on 9-12-2009 by oliveoil]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 



1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Notice it says those who confesseth not that Jesus is come in the flesh is NOT OF GOD >.

So either you confess that JESUS did come in the flesh (FOR REAL) Or he did not ..

See why you MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS first before you can believe what he says.....you have to believe that he was true before you can believe what he says was truth ..


Exactly! nicely put. Thank you.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
To those who think they are gods ...
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

are you gods ? ...yes gods of this world as is satan the god of this world..
if you are a god of this world then you are of your father the devil ............and will die like men .


It says ALL ARE CHILDREN. ALL. Then 2nd part is about the reality of life, that we all die physically.

If that is not true, then NOBODY has ever believed in Jesus.



If you do NOT BELIEVE that JESUS CAME IN THE FLESH ,.,then you are ANTICHRIST ....
Thats pretty cut and dried I would say .......


I speak what I know. And I do not know one way or another. I wasn't there to see it for myself.

I have no problem believing Jesus came in the flesh, that is NOT the issue at all. But still, at the end of the day IT DOES NOT MATTER. Because the truth, the way and the life are still those things either way.



How can anyone say they believe someone (Like Jesus) and yet NOT EVEN KNOW IF THEY BELIEVE THAT HE WAS REAL AND DID EXIST ????
Contradictory isnt it ...


Because I know what he is talking about. Exactly how he told the Jews in the bible how they would know if he was true or not. It's not contradictory, it's reinforcement.



PS >..The Jews who killed Christ believed they were gods as well ...So does the Pope ..etc ...that should make you think twice about being a god Badmedia ........because you fit right in with believing the same way as the authority that you hate so much


First off, that part about the Jews is BS. They wanted to stone Jesus for even suggesting anything of the such - John 10.

2nd, the pope is of the church. There is a difference in believing "you" are god, and knowing that the father is within people, and is their soul etc. If someone is to think "they" and only "they" are god, and there is no father that is greater, then that would be bad. Yet, nothing of the sort is being said here.

3rd, the father is the only true authority. I have done nothing to try and take power over other men or anything of the sort. I have never told you to break a commandment, I tell you that you must keep them. All you do there is bear false witness against me. You KNOW better than what you accuse me of, you know my position on the father/son relationships, you are not stranger to the things I say.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
Correct me if I am wrong but what you are telling me now is that the Holy Ghost who the Father has sent has given you your knowledge .
if this is true than you are contradicting you self. I I could quote you
"I learned directly from the father"

How could this be when in John 14:26 it says that it is the Holy Ghost who teaches.
Which one is it the Father or the Holy Ghost?


I notice you completely ignored what Jesus actually said later in the verses about only through Jesus, and choose instead to try and find a cheap point to try and get me on.

The father sends the holy spirit, thus to learn from the holy spirit is to learn from the father directly.





I said,

If Jesus did not exist there would be no words written and attributed to him period. How could there be?


You said,

The same way Neo on the Matrix exists, or any other character in a story? Not that I'm saying that is the case, but that is how it could be.


So you are not sure?


First, you asked me how could it be possible. I gave you a way it could be possible. I am saying that while it is possible that it is just a story, it is even more possible IMO that it is real. Yet, you can not prove it either way, it is a story to us either way, and the important part is the understanding and message itself that is being delivered.



2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Notice the word ALL. You either believe ALL scripture or none.


That is what Paul says.

This is what Jesus says.



28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.


Scribes = those who write scripture. Again, Paul is everything I am shown not to do.



What you are doing is cherry picking verses and contorting what the bible teaches as a whole.

I know you mean well but this is not how the Bible should be viewed.

There is a good book out there called Theology for beginners by F.J. Sheed.
You could sure use it.


You praise the bible, but apparently you think Jesus is full of crap when he says the holy spirit is that which teaches. Rather than telling me to seek that teaching and understanding, you tell me I should turn to men instead?

Now why in the world would I ever take what a man tells me over the father?

If nothing else, remember this - We always deny in others what we ourselves lack.


[edit on 12/9/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 



the father is the only true authority


Speaking of Jesus
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Bro, are you sure you are using the correct Bible?



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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Btw, doesn't it kind of say that your religious beliefs are extremely shallow when something such as if Jesus was physically real or not has such profound implications on your life?

Shouldn't the things he did, said and gave be things which speak on their own. Even if it wasn't real, aren't those things still just as great? Aren't those things still the right thing to do?

If Jesus turns out not to be real, does that mean we should start killing, stealing, lieing and breaking commandments? Would that mean the commandments are wrong?

Would it mean the understanding given by Jesus in the bible is wrong?

The way I see it, even if he isn't real the things attributed to him are still everything the character of the story(Jesus) claims them to be.

But yet, you wish to call me Antichrist simply because I think those things are still right regardless? Because I think that if he lived or not, what he said is still true, and the example of his life is still the way?



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by badmedia
 



the father is the only true authority


Speaking of Jesus
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Bro, are you sure you are using the correct Bible?


In order to give an authority as such, it can only come from that which is the true authority. The keyword there is given.

Just as you are given free will and authority over yourself.


[edit on 12/9/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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First of i must say that my perspective is that reality is a fractal and that the micro and macro interaction of these magnetic fields create all shape and context of reality. These interations follow patterns and one of the inevitible productions of such interactions is intelligent life.

With that said i agree on the context and wisdom contained within jesus's words. That there is a reality and a knowledge within those words. I dont know if jesus was real or a creation by a group of people to been seen just as we see him....

I love being able to atleast share and understand the concept of the father regardless if some believe it to be a man or a machine.



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia

To worship the idol of Jesus, rather than to understand him is like you giving a bowl of milk to a cat. And rather than the cat drinking the milk you gave to him, the cat instead decides to worship the bowl, never touching the milk.

Sorry, but there are much deeper things in what Jesus does, that an idol doesn't even being to capture.

And just so we are clear - if I did not disappoint you, then you did not understand me. Because I know what you believe.


i enjoyed reading your post.
not too many people understand the idolatry of Jesus and even fewer are able to articulate it so well and so dispassionately yet with undeniable conviction in the the TRUTH of the WORD.

you're so right - it's not the word that is spoken but rather the mind in which that word was formed.



Jesus said that none could come to him unless the Father drew them to him. if the Father chooses to draw some directly, then certainly that is not only his prerogative but also demonstrates his inimitable power and will.

you're a wonderful example!



posted on Dec, 9 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 


Thanks, idolatry is what I call "day 1" understanding. Meaning, it was one of the first things I learned, and thus one of the most important things I learned. Because as you learn and start to understand these things, then more understanding opens up as a result and you "see" more.

There are so many levels of things in which Jesus speaks of, I could go on all day. Things which are completely relevant to things that happen today. All the things Jesus dealt with still exist today. But people are unable to see them, because they look at the names(idols) of things, rather than their actions and such(fruits).

If you look at their fruits, what they do, what their function is, then you will know what they really are. For example, money changers of the time of Jesus are the wall street bankers of today. Different names, same functions.

But when you are looking at things in their functions, then you see the "truth" of them. And so while I can see the bad things by looking at the function, I can also see the good things such as Jesus based on the same function.

I know them by their fruits.





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