Your Date With Destiny: Meeting the Real Jesus

Originally posted by lifecitizen
It must have been moved then- I was in ATS and didnt realise the thread is now in BTS- I will be more accepting when fundies stop trying to tell me I am going to die if I don't share their deulusions.


yes Christianity is about fear- fear of a god- all religions work the same way.

People buy into it as they can not stand the thought of not being.

It's been in BTS for over a week easy.

The smartest thing I ever did was separate god from religion and religious people.

so that's where my buddy went. LC went to ATS?

as far as

" fear "

God preached the exact opposite.

" you no longer have a spirit of fear "

what hell is is a reality for evil people. It's like a jail for people who have reached the point of no return, but the fact is that many saints never preached hell.

Infact like I said before St teresa of avila she seen Christ all the time in ecstacy.

Someone asked her to preach about hell, and she said No! I will not. only about Christs love and happiness.


Fear is not what God taught. Like regular human judges say. if you do this you will go to jail, what if the criminal said.

No!!!! You're installing fear! So what. The judge has to because it's a statament of truth.

But anyways come back to BTS LC, we go way back to bill and tedd and spiderman avatars we used to have.



peace.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Well I agree that god is not about fear. I was talking more about like when they would burn people in public as a heretic kind of spreading of fear.

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
reply to post by oliveoil

 

Isnt the bible full of examples of people searching for God (as well as the other way around as you pointed out) without any help from a text book at all ?

People seek out good and God all the time, But God only reveals himself in his terms.

Do you have any belief in holy revelation made in the last two thousand years say, since the original times of the new testament,

Yes, I believe in revelation However there has been no new public revelation since Jesus.

Purely out of interest what denomination are you ? Forgive me if I missed it I was just curious.

I prefer not to follow any organization however, I tend to side with Catholic theology.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by oliveoil]

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by oliveoil
Is there not a difference between people seeking the lord and the lord seeking people? Yes I said that. Now, I also said that God reveals himself though natural revelation and divine revelation.
Feel free to go back and check.Talk about reading comp.

God doesn't need to "seek" people. I'm sure you've heard of the footprints poem. Just because someone does not see or know the father doesn't mean he's not there. God experiences everything you do.

If you love something, then you will set it free. If it loves you, then it will come back. That's really what it's a matter of.

As for the other stuff. I have a saying. Christians(generalizing here) are all about a personal relationship with god. But hell will come before they actually allow it.

See its when you say goofy stuff like this that shows me you have no understanding of the Bible as a whole. Can you at least quote something from the Bible to back up what you are saying.

Is this discussion - really for real.

Can someone really be that hung up on a book of only a fraction of selected ancient script?

I feel like I'm being put on.

reply to post by oliveoil


Just a note, from me to you....

Your posts would have more worth if you didnt feel the need to label others posts with words such as 'goofy' or comments such as 'what have you been smokin' and there are many many other comments from other threads and this one as well where you felt the need to belittle another understandings with little jabs.

It doesnt make you look like you have more understanding of something, which would be the only purpose to use such comments or words.

By you using this method over and over (in this thread and othres) you tempt others to lower themsevles to the same level and then belittle your understandings back at you....instead of just stating the difference of understandings and leaving it at that.

You tried to pull this card out on Badmedia, when he stated 'you are full of crap' and you came back and told him how Christian he looked. We all are guilty of such lower words that really have no need to be spoken, but you do this often...and then call someone out on it when they do it once.

Again, we are all showing a nature here. The choice of words we use shows part of that nature we have.

Just some thoughts, hopefully they wont be taken the wrong way

Best intentions
LV

OliveOil

You have clearly stated that without the Bible, we couldnt find God. Then you backtrack this with saying in a couple post that God can be found all around us.

Even though you say this, I dont think you really have faith in it or experience of this 'knowing' that it is so. You dont seem to have trust in God that Thee will continue to lead you if you find a wisdom outside of the book or that if you were on this world without the book that you could find God.

Even though you say divine revelation can be so and that nature can show us God....you dont seem to have a real grasping of why this is so, how it can be so, and how this way should be deemed over any material object holding information.

My signature can wrap this up very well....for me, it is extreme comfort to know that I dont need a man made object to show me God, it shows how great God's works are, it shows how full God fattened this world with Theeself here, being all around us, within us, within anothers eyes we behold. Its more beautiful to me, it makes me feel more secure about 'God' and the knowing that if all man made objects get cleared from this world someday, God was the genius that made sure his 'word of truth' 'in life itself' wont be destroyed or washed away. Mankind has a security on this sphere, it is the nature that provides us, it is awesome that God made things to where Thee is found in the very blueprint of all things of life.

It gives me peace in my deepest being to know....man cant ever drift from God...we can try, we can ignore it, we can burn books and kill and make authority many many times over....but Gods word cant be destroyed....that my friend, is a miracle.

This has been a very interesting discussion so far, which I think goes back as far as page 10. I haven’t had time to read all of it, just the last few pages. I just wanted to say a few things…

God is not about fear at all, in fact, the word fear, has been mistranslated in the verse Proverbs 1:7 “Fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge”. A better way to describe it, would be to say, “Receiving the spirit of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge”

This does not mean however that people who receive the Holy Spirit, suddenly know everything lol but they are, in my experience able to hear God (not always an audible voice, but sometimes it can be) in there inner being and can receive knowledge, without the use of words.

I have met many Christians who believe in God, who have not received the Holy Spirit and in a way that person’s knowledge of God, comes only from the Bible itself. This is not a bad thing, because I believe that God gives people what they need, at specific times, in their lives. Most of the Christians I have met, who have not received the Holy Spirit, will sometimes be given a word about their lives or will be prayed for, to receive the Holy Spirit, by someone who has already received it. IMO I believe it by this process, that the church is built up.


(To Grandma)

Hey Grandma

Thanks again, for adding me as a friend…

I have been searching for a link to your NDE but I couldn’t find it anywhere on your profile page.

If you could point me in the right direction, that would be great…



Merry Christmas everyone


- JC


[edit on 22-12-2009 by Joecroft]

[edit on 22-12-2009 by Joecroft]

reply to post by Joecroft


Yes, those who do not know the father are just poor in spirit. And they are blessed no doubt just as Jesus says. The reason for it is simple - they do not know any better. As they have not yet known the truth, then they have not been able to reject it either. And so once the truth comes to them then they will accept it, understand it and so forth. Just as I did when it came to me.

What bugs me however is when people act is if they do know, when they do not. Then it becomes the blind leading the blind.

Your way of saying fear of the lord also makes plenty of sense, and is in line with my experience. All my understanding and knowledge followed that 1 event when I knew the father was in me. When I first read "fear", I thought something is not right about that. The only kind of valid "fear" I can think of in terms of god is in the same manner you fear your parents. Like a "boy, I sure hope I do not disappoint" kind of way. I do that every day still.

And that is a prime example of what people could do with the other parts in the bible to make me change my mind. Like with Paul for example. If they could show me where something is being misunderstood and has a better/deeper meaning with Paul, as has been done hear with "fear of the lord", then I would be more likely to change my mind about it.

reply to post by Joecroft


Hello Joecroft

I am Grandma's daughter...here is a one of the threads with her videos in it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Since a humble person often wont share the things that have humbled them the most, for their ego just isnt there to do such a thing....I believe my mother has me to 'bring it forward' for her. I witnessed her telling everything as it was happening to her. I witnessed the feelings and thoughts that came to her as it was happening. There are many things she has remembered sense the experience and some things have already faded somewhat in clarity.

Any which way her or I look at it, and wonder why and how....we are still taken back in amazement.

We were seeking together before this happened, we had offered ourselves to be of service to Thee Most High of All things. All we know is that there came this crazy experience out of the clear blue sky one day that left us astounded.

Hope you enjoy her sharing of the experience with others....there is another thread I made (it was my 2nd thread here at ATS and was the main reason we both joined here, was to share it) but its a little more bogged down with many opinions. I cant pull up my member page today for some reason...but if you can get to it, it is on my thread lists.

LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo



Thank you…

Yes I realized that Grandma was your mother, which sounds kind of confusing lol but it’s not…

I’m really interested in the subject of OBE’s and NDE’s…actually it was while researching into OBE’s that I actually found this web site…I never really intended on discussing God here at ATS but because it has been a part of my life for the last two and a half years I couldn’t help myself.


I found this clip on another thread and felt I should post it here…



I really recommend watching the whole documentary…IMO it’s awesome…


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


Hello again!

I just watched the one video you posted and am going to for sure watch the entire documentary tonight. I really enjoyed hearing 'Pams' story....ironically, my mothers name is Pam. Very beautiful story, I like how she was somewhat debating with her Uncle to enter back into her body that seemed 'void' of life.

Since mothers experience, I too have been searching many OBE's and NDE's online and to my amazement...I never get bored hearing about these experiencing, they always seem to give me a hope. Each persons experience is very personal to them and this in itself is also a beautiful thing. That video made my day brighter...thanks for that!

My best to you and yours
LV

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I am not fearful of the Lord (I LOVE HIM VERY MUCH) and I know he loves me.
But I do certainly respect him and I know as a Father he wont just sit by and take it if I chose to turn and go the opposite direction of him .

I am also not afraid of satan .in fact he may be somewhat afraid of me now .*(Because he cant tempt me into the things he used to be able to tempt me into before and because he knows I can take alot and wont die in spirit)
Since he has not been able to beat me down SPIRITUALLY (he used others to beat me physically and a few other times mental abused me) for so long hopeing he could break my spirit but HE LOST because I HELD ON .(because of the LORD keeping me safe and strong in spirit and in body)............
I could have left those men but I was young,stupid and FAITHFUL (was gonna make things work no matter what the cost was) ...........
And I didnt get bitter because of it all (satan was sure hopeing that would happen)if I was bitter and angry and hateful and vengeful because of all that then he would have beaten me .Instead It went the opposite (it caused me to forgive,to not hate,not be revengeful and the most important thing was to love those who know not love but hate *(like my exes) etc) ....................





[edit on 20-12-2009 by Simplynoone]

Dear Simplynoone

This posts hit home with me, I too was in a bad relation. It didnt start out that way of course, I did see 'good' in the man before I married him and at the same time was somewhat aware of possible 'bad' things that could be but I fostered hope that the good would outshine the other. My ex had a bad injury which gave him alot of pain, which caused him to be on strong pain medicine, which led to other things and a horrid a addiction. Ugliness shown through him, and it reflected onto me many times. It took me a few years to see that the hurt it was causing me was not worth me staying, even if one day things were to get better.

My different perspective on this is....I dont blame Satan. Out of all due respect to how you perceive your experiences, I like to give credit to where it is due. If I dont give credit to my ex for his wrongs....how then could I give credit to him today for all the hard work he has done to improve his life. After almost killing himself several times with drugs....today he is finishing up his first program of being 90 days clean. He just came to see the children for the first time in over 4 months, they just got back home from being with him today. There were alot of tears, for its so hard on the kids....but I told them to be thankful that we were able to have another visit with him...instead of it not being possible for any more visits. Even if he was not trying to better himself right now....his past is still his seeds, only he can own up to 'knowing a better way' or 'learning from the past'.

It doesnt make him a bad person...but once very lost in having no hope, lacking of love for himself, lack of respect for others around him and those that do for him....mabey he needed me in his life for a time to see a different way....and also, mabey he will turn back to old ways finding this new way to difficult to face. Facing our demons is very hard...and not passing the buck for it being someones elses fault is even harder. Its easy to say...well Im like this because my father hurt me, or Im like this because life was too painful, or Im like this because I had a selfish mother that made me bitter....or Im like this because Satan is leading me. Even if its someone else saying 'you are like this due to someone elses wrongs or something elses wrongs'....is passing a buck, not allowing that person to 'look at themselves in the mirror'.

You can surely look at it as Satan was out to get you and you won....but I would say that you were a part of someone trying to abuse a humbled being that offered itself in love....and love won. You did not let it sink you to a lower level (well not permanently) and you deserve the credit for this as well as your ex deserves the credit for not being able to live a life of offering instead of a life of taking.

Each perspective serves well, but these ex's are real souls, they have things they must own up to one day before you and God. No one will be able to carry that cross they have except themselves...and God will see to it that this happens. What a torrential day when souls like that experience the feelings that were created by them in the other person by their actions and behaviors. If one that kills by the sword dies by the sword...does that mean that an abuser will one day experience abuse? Makes me wonder....I hope they all learn the grace and love of God one day in time.

I forgive my ex for all the things he did. He was being ruled by a Earthly substance that he became attached to which also created alot of greed and selfishness in him while allowing that substance to take hold over him.

When he went through is AA meetings (still going through them) he made a call to me one night, crying. He was overwhelmed at facing the things he had done and was having trouble accepting this part of himself. I told him I forgave him...and that I had forgiven him a long time ago. He just cried. I am lucky to be able to see and have that 'sorriness' from my ex, while many do not get that. I also know, it will be easy for him to regress back to old ways because his entire family is attached to substances for 'happiness'. He will have to find strength to be confident in a 'new path' while he is around many still on this 'old path'. Even though there will be temptations from others around him....it is not 'their' fault if he regresses. It will go back to his own will, wants, and needs that he feels he is deserving of.

Thanks for always sharing your thoughts and feelings Simply...peace to you and yours always,
LV

reply to post by badmedia

Originally posted by badmedia
Yes, those who do not know the father are just poor in spirit. And they are blessed no doubt just as Jesus says. The reason for it is simple - they do not know any better. As they have not yet known the truth, then they have not been able to reject it either. And so once the truth comes to them then they will accept it, understand it and so forth. Just as I did when it came to me.

The Christians I have met, have come to find God in one of two ways…firstly, they have either, had an experience which has led them to God, this could be many things, for example a miraculous healing or a receiving of the Holy Spirit. Secondly, people hear the word of God from the bible and then make a leap of faith, to believe it.

Originally posted by badmedia
Your way of saying fear of the lord also makes plenty of sense, and is in line with my experience. All my understanding and knowledge followed that 1 event when I knew the father was in me. When I first read "fear", I thought something is not right about that. The only kind of valid "fear" I can think of in terms of god is in the same manner you fear your parents. Like a "boy, I sure hope I do not disappoint" kind of way. I do that every day still.

Yes I agree with your analogy regarding fear, I also think, IMO that it could be a genuine fear from an individual person’s perspective, who is receiving something, that is unknown to their own spirit or they receive knowledge that is hard for them to accept, which may make them feel in awe and fear at the same time. God of course does not intend people to be fearful, when he gives them the “Holy Spirit” or in other words makes his presence known to them, although it may feel scary at first.

Merry Christmas Badmedia





-JC

Originally posted by badmedia
The only kind of valid "fear" I can think of in terms of god is in the same manner you fear your parents. Like a "boy, I sure hope I do not disappoint" kind of way. I do that every day still.

In the way you state that - - aren't you separating yourself from god?

If you are One with god - - shouldn't disappointment be with yourself?

reply to post by lifecitizen


Hello lifecitizen:

I believe we are in BTS, sorry you did not notice this. You may choose to believe there is no proof that Jesus existed but please allow me and others who choose to believe Christ is real and exists in our lives today.

I hope you find something postive on this thread. Anyway, hope you have a "Merry Christmas" and that the Lord blesses you this Christmas with His love and joy.

Peace to you,
Grandma

reply to post by Annee


I dont think its quite like that.

Consider all Cows are Mammals, but not all Mammals are Cows.

Simlarly we are One with God but we are also seperate at the same time. God is within us but we are not God (though at the same time we are).

Originally posted by Annee
In the way you state that - - aren't you separating yourself from god?

If you are One with god - - shouldn't disappointment be with yourself?

Well the disappointment is also with myself. What I most worry about however in the terms of separation as you talk about, is that I don't accidentally mislead people. I can't give as the father does.

However, there is separation from god. While it is a matter of perspective, it still does exist. I don't believe in pretending it doesn't exist, but I do believe in coming to understand why the separation is only a matter of perspective and where/how the connection within exists.

The father is still much greater than I am.

The separation is done for a reason, and with purpose. I don't fight that. If not for the separation in perspective, then this "existence" is not possible. This existence is only available within a limited perspective. But at the end of the day, I know and understand the separation is just an illusion of perspective. Just like people purposely limit their perspective to enjoy a movie.

What makes me in terms of the physical, and the seperation itself is just a single experience of that which is greater.

This is the function of the soul. The soul is an individual consciousness/spirit within the greater spirit. Like a drop of water within an ocean. The death of the soul means that the individuality is lost. The person goes "back to source" and "they" cease to exist as individuals. All things of the father will eventually go back to the father, it's just a matter of the experience before then.

If you were to reincarnate into a bird for example. The only true way for you to know a "birds" perspective is if you have no previous memory of being human. If you have previous knowledge of being human, then you would be a human in a bird body experience. Thus a completely different experience in itself.

So, the separation is just an illusion of perspective. But yet exists for a reason. In no way does my perspective compare to that of the fathers, at best I can only expand my perspective through understanding and experience(the gaining of knowledge). This process is also what creates the illusion of time(another function of perception).

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by Annee
In the way you state that - - aren't you separating yourself from god?

If you are One with god - - shouldn't disappointment be with yourself?

Well the disappointment is also with myself. What I most worry about however in the terms of separation as you talk about, is that I don't accidentally mislead people. I can't give as the father does.

However, there is separation from god. While it is a matter of perspective, it still does exist. I don't believe in pretending it doesn't exist, but I do believe in coming to understand why the separation is only a matter of perspective and where/how the connection within exists.

The father is still much greater than I am.

Just clearing it up a little - thank you.

I think too many people separate themselves from god.

I believe in personal thought responsibility - - as well as respecting the God source - - like and adult child would a parent.

By the way - my posting style is intentionally as simple and short as possible to make my point.