The least religious nations are the happiest, study finds

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by moocowman

 

What nations were those, moo?

Hm, by the looks of it Norway,Denmark, Holland mind you I'm still getting my swede around it.

alrighty, so we know they are the happiest?

Dunno mate, I suppose it's relative, can't get much happier than me so I guess "Happiest" may have been the wrong term to use.

Perhaps one way of proving the case is could be for an Xtian or other type to put it to the test. He or she could perhaps suspend their beliefs (not unlike what is done with critical thinking) for a period and go live in Holland for a trial period .

This study is completely floored anti religious propaganda...

As EricD and Benji1999 pointed out... the nations have been cheery picked and the study seems to be unfairly biased on some of the factors that were chosen.

Sorry but in my opinion this is not a valid study and proves nothing.

Avenginggecko

Just browsing through the document, but I believe they were taking information only from 1st world economies. China and Russia technically aren't first world, are they? I'm honestly not sure about Russia, but I know China isn't.

True... but then why do they use statistics such as poverty and child mortality rates?

If a country has a high infant mortality rate and the population of that country is unhappy does that say more about religion or the country’s health care system?

Originally posted by Muckster
This study is completely floored anti religious propaganda...

As EricD and Benji1999 pointed out... the nations have been cheery picked and the study seems to be unfairly biased on some of the factors that were chosen.

Sorry but in my opinion this is not a valid study and proves nothing.

True... but then why do they use statistics such as poverty and child mortality rates?

If a country has a high infant mortality rate and the population of that country is unhappy does that say more about religion or the country’s health care system?

Its funny that some people have opinions they believe are fact. Could you tell us how and why the nations were cherry picked? Could you also tell us what invalidates this study since there are many like it that all say the same thing? If a country has a high infant mortality rate does it say more that their god is uncaring, uninterested, and hates children or a health care system a peoples with faith shouldnt even need?

Odd how non thinkers will invalidate science in their minds while believing something with absolutely no proof.

Sure... if you read EricD and Benji1999's earlier post you will see what i mean...

There are 195 countries in the world... unless you include all of them its cherry picking.

If a country has a high infant mortality rate does it say more that their god is uncaring, uninterested, and hates children or a health care system a peoples with faith shouldnt even need?

So you believe in God? That's good to hear... although i fail to see what your point is...

The issue is over the validity of the study... Not whether or not you believe God to be cruel.

I would say the same about any "study" that makes such a bold statement by looking at only a handful of countries and then drawing a conclusion!!


It’s like saying that countries without Europeans are happiest and then basing that statement on studies conducted in Dubai and Latvia!





[edit on 8-12-2009 by Muckster]

Originally posted by watcher73
If a country has a high infant mortality rate does it say more that their god is uncaring, uninterested, and hates children or a health care system a peoples with faith shouldnt even need?

Wassup, Watcher ?
I don't think that question is so relevant to this study. To me, the study is purely a look at whether there is a correlation between the success of a society and the level of religious beliefs in the countries. It doesn't have anything to do with whether these beliefs are true or not.

I believe the study was a bit cherry-picked because it's missing Finland, which enjoys the same societal benefits as its Nordic neighbours, but also has a higher proportion of religious adherers.
And, as I've previously mentioned they've included 4 sets of data regarding STDs - and these only cover 7 of the countries in the survey. I believe in the interests of fairness that they shouldn't have been included as it skeweres the scores of those that they have data for. And when you see which countries they have the data for - and the scores of these 4 factors - then the inclusion of these figures look a bit suspicious:

Netherlands 39.8
Denmark 37.9
Sweden 37.3
UK 36.6
Canada 36.5
France 19.5 ( 2 )
USA 0



In terms of happiness and general life satisfaction, the Eurobarometer Poll is quite a good resource for social surveys within Europe, and here is their list of the most happy countries in the EU:

*Netherlands 97%
*Denmark 93%
Finland 93%
+Spain 90%
*Sweden 90%
+Cyprus 90%
*Belgium 89%
*Luxembourg 89%
+Ireland 88%
UK 86%
+Malta 86%
Germany 85%
Slovenia 83%
*France 80%
Italy 80%
+Greece 79%
+Austria 78%
*Czech Republic 77%
+Poland 75%
+Portugal 72%
+Slovakia 67%
Latvia 66%
*Estonia 65%
+Romania 64%
Hungary 62%
Lithuania 60%
Bulgaria 37%

I've marked a + for countries with 50%+ belief in God ( in the more traditional sense )
I've marked an * for countries with a 20%+ atheist population.

So Spaniards with a 59% belief in God are as happy as Swedes with only a 23% belief.
The two least religious countries in Europe; France and Czech Republic are as happy as Greece with an 81% belief in God.
Estonia ( 26% atheist ) are as happy as Romania ( 90% belief in God ).

So, all in all, you can't really take too much into the these studies imo.
And the problem is that most people tend to take what they want out of research.

"Independent studies" aside for just a moment, you don't really need to go that far. Just browse around ATS for a moment. Listen to AshleyD, JungleJake, and a host of other believers. They talk about love, faith, hope, and grace, then immediately after comes a non-believer retort of how they need to shut up, are sheeple, being brainwashed, are oppressive, etc. Really? For living in and promoting ideals like love? Being here the last five or so years, there's a lot of crotchety negativity coming from the counter argument to these precepts. Before picking up a study, observe, it is the first part of the Scientific Method. After that, we can start talking statistics and fair reporting among academia. Here's an idea, ask believers on these threads if they're happy and why. It doesn't have to be this one if you're seeking an unbiased answer.

P.S. I've been over to Europe. They're not happier there.

[edit on 8-12-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God

They talk about love, faith, hope, and grace, then immediately after comes a non-believer retort of how they need to shut up, are sheeple, being brainwashed, are oppressive, etc. Really?

Talk of love faith, hope etc is a far cry from demonstrating it ,are you somehow trying to claim that people without religion don't love or have any grace ?

For living in and promoting ideals like love? Being here the last five or so years, there's a lot of crotchety negativity coming from the counter argument to these precepts.

Where exactly is the grace in the requirement of human death misery and war that is needed to be observed, in order to confirm the return of an allegedly omnibenevolent being that lives in the sky ?

In order for the xtians that you would appear to wish to canonize, to live in the loving peaceful everafter, those that would not choose to think as them will be killed and tortured for eternity.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


Thank you for posting these,

Sweden
Japan
Denmark
France
Germany
Great Britain
Norway
Holland
Australia
New Zealand
Canada
Spain
Switzerland
Austria
Italy
Ireland
US

I thought the Japanese were religious, Buddhism.

I always thought of Italy as pretty religious too, although it has declined.

Ireland?

US?

Needless to say I haven't read this, but how did they determine the least religious nations, was it anything like the global warming charts?

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Alright, Stormdancer ?

That list is the least religious countries in the study to the most religious.
In this study, how religious a country is is based on the following factors:

Absolutely believe in God
Bilble literalists
Religious service attendance
Prayer
Absolutely believe in afterlife
Absolutely believe in heaven
Absolutely believe in hell
Agnostics and atheists
Acceptance of evolution

The % of people from each country that the above applies to is then formed into a scale of 1 to 10 ( And bear in mind that the higher the score, the less religious a country is deemed to be by this study )

Sweden 9.3
Japan 9.2
Denmark 8.8
France 8.5
Germany 8.3
UK 7.6
Norway 7.5
Netherlands 6.6
Australia 6.1
New Zeland 5.9
Canada 5.5
Spain 5.4
Switzerland 5.2
Austria 4.9
Italy 3.9
Ireland 2.3
USA 0.9

It's a good point you raise about Japan, because most of these factors are aimed towards a Christian society, rather than a Shinto/Buddhist society.
For example Bible literalists, acceptance of evolution and even belief in God won't be as applicable to a Buddhist as it is to a Christian.
I must confess my knowledge of Shintoism is quite small, so I'm not sure how many of these questions would apply to that too.

[edit on 8-12-2009 by Benji1999]

What I find strange about all these statistics and studies is that I myself haven't taken part in in any studies, neither do I know anyone that does, so I feel a lot of this crap is made up.

You can twist and distort numbers to show whatever you want, personal observation finds.
I see it as a fallacy since you can't proove that religion is what makes people unhappy and what can make one group of people happy will not make another group happy.
Qutar has a really low murder per capita. Now that does not mean that if you teach people the aribic dialect used in qutar they would be less likley to murder.
There are huge differences between all those countries i do not see how anyone can look at just religion and draw that conclusion.

[edit on 8-12-2009 by zaiger]

reply to post by zaiger


At last... some common sense...

This is what i mean by propaganda. The study was probably conducted or interpreted from a biased view point.

reply to post by buds84

What I find strange about all these statistics and studies is that I myself haven't taken part in in any studies, neither do I know anyone that does, so I feel a lot of this crap is made up.

LOL - that’s so true

I have NEVER been asked to take part in a statistical study either

reply to post by Muckster


Thnx
I got another one for ya
The legal age of consent (for a person to have sex ) is
Sweden 15
Japan 13
Denmark 15
France 15
Germany 16
Maybe it is the age of consent that makes people happy?

reply to post by zaiger


13 in Japan?????
How do you say crazy in Japanese?

reply to post by moocowman


You provide some great studies there moocowman! Maybe we should
just abolish all religions and watch the world unite. We could all hold hands and sing happily together.

"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

You shouldn't blame religion for the world problems, but leaders. If each
person was smart enough to realize who they are being led by, there wouldn't
be as much murder.

reply to post by Clearskies


More like how do they say yes in japanese amirite?

イム13 (im 13)

[edit on 8-12-2009 by zaiger]

Could anyone cite a religion-free nation at any point in history, please, that has become a great nation? No such nation has ever existed, as far as I know.

A nation of little religion would certainly feel less morally inhibited and would certainly be more hedonistic... But hedonism is not happiness. Hedonism is just a matter of feeding the senses, which can hardly be described as "happiness"

— Doc Velocity






[edit on 12/8/2009 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Do Soviet Russia and north Korea count?

reply to post by moocowman


More "Secure" they become? No thanks, how about becoming more free. I would think living in a non-religious nation would create more freedom to believe and do what you want rather than what you're told.