The Islam Conspiracy

reply to post by babloyi


Right, you level no accusations of me.

First off, From my original statement that started this discussion, I clearly said that wearing the burqa is only a sign of higher likelihood of embracing radical Islamic beliefs.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

For me, if the women are dressed in burqas and Hijabs, then the odds are much higher that they are among the radical members. This is the point I keep trying to drive home.

This is my original statement, and your insistence of twisting this into some prejudiced attitude is cheap and dirty.

You ask about the women who choose to wear the burqa and I point out that they may very well be accomplices, and now you try to claim I pigeon hole all as accomplices or being forced.

You are one tricky devil, but not tricky enough.

Women who occasionally wear a burqa or a hijab are the ones who do so voluntarily, and are not being force to wear such clothing, nor are they likely to be embracing radical ideals, IMO.

Wearing such dress in a Western nations during specific Islamic holidays would IMO be a tasteful and enduring way to embrace ones heritage.

Wearing these uncomfortable clothing on hot humid days at the beach or the pool indicates a radical element to me. Why else would they insist on dressing so elaborately in such an uncomfortable manner.

Do you really think your women are so irresistible that all us western males would swoon and attack them?

id like to start of by saying im a caucasion white male living in the united kingdom, the terrorist aspect of islam is a minority of extremists yes, the reason they apear so frequent in number is because there the only muslims who make the news, just like airliner crashes apear on the news when car crashes dont. extremism is a bigger story.

do you not think that by alienating islam you simply rally more of the muslims towards extremism. i see alot of younger muslim or asian teenagers acting in inapriopriot manor and being vandals but i also see white caucasion youths doing the same thing. its kind of obvious that if society as a whole rejects muslims and subjects them to alienation they will want to fight back against supresion.

christians complaining of islams evil and decietfull ways will do well to remember the slaughters of the holy war and the crusade where, christianity as a whole decided god wanted them to go and kill all the muslims for being different. yet one of their most cherrished beliefs is love thy neighbour and not to kill. hypocrysy much??

furthermore do u think the majority of muslims in afganistan and such want a warezone on their front doors. of course not

i do share but one concern with the propaganda and that is the average muslim family does make alot more babies than a caucasion white one. and i cant help but feel that religeon of any sort is problematic towards societies progress. at least unflexible ones like christianity with the whole denying evolution malarky.

every major discovery of science has had to endure untolerable critique by religeous parties when it contradicts their belief system. it does frustrate me greatly.

by no means do i disklike islam or christianity because of their belief system, but why on earth would a god want you to do the things writen in the holly books, what difference would going to a church make. i mean does god need an ego boost or somthing?

reply to post by poet1b


So your response to my very simple question was "Only if they wear it occasionally"? I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but you have some fundamental misunderstandings about Islam. Most muslims on this planet don't treat hijab as some sort of holiday party dress or something. You might as well say that "To be 'tasteful', Jains should only not eat meat on their special religious holidays and the rest of the time they should keep their veganism away from us 'western males'" . And I love how you keep using the term 'western'. So many assumptions and biases showing through !

Still, you somewhat dodged the question, so let me move the goalposts for you a bit:
Do you seriously believe that a woman who makes an informed, educated choice to wear a hijab or burqa regularly, while out in public,without being forced in any way is either radical or extreme or 'faulty' in some way or has some insidious schemings afoot?

Anyways, how does one quote where you talk about 'likelihood' explain all these other quotes of yours here? How exactly have I taken them out of context? In most cases I quoted your entire paragraph.


[edit on 4-1-2010 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi

Do you seriously believe that a woman who makes an informed, educated choice to wear a hijab or burqa regularly, while out in public,without being forced in any way is either radical or extreme or 'faulty' in some way or has some insidious schemings afoot?

Let me answer this question for you once again which I answered in my original statement quoted above.

Women who want to wear the burqa and the hijab are more likely to embrace extreme Islamic beliefs.

Now, how about you answer a question for me.

Where does it state in Islam that women must cover themselves from head to toe, or where a hijab type head covering?

From my understanding, this is not a religious requirement.

reply to post by poet1b

You are dodging the question again (and making unverified statistical claims to boot!). But still, I hope you won't mind me putting some words in your mouth, pieced together from stuff it seems you are implying.

So you agree that there are many women out there who made an informed, educated decision to wear a hijab or burqa regularly in public, without being forced, who aren't radicals, who aren't extremists, or have any such related 'faults'.

In this case, your continued idea to "ban the burqa/hijab" is faulty!


Now in answer to your question, yes, it may not be necessitated by religion, but so what? Does that diminish the freedom of people to wear whatever they feel like? To be PROUD of wearing whatever they feel like? To ENJOY wearing whatever they feel like, without being castigated or pigeon-holed as "more likely to harbour extreme views" ?

[edit on 4-1-2010 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi


I am dodging nothing, I answered your question, you just don't like the answer because it blows your whole extremist vision.

I am not expressing unvalidated statistical claims, I am expressing my opinion. In my opinion, the vast majority of women who wear a burqa daily, or even a hijab, do so out of fear or retaliation, being brainwashed, or being terrorist sympathizers, and there have already been numerous articles provided by many on this thread and others to back up this position.

The women who wear these outfits only on special occasions are probably the only women who are emotionally and mentally developed, and not living in fear.

So, by your own admittance this has nothing to do with religion, or religious rights, it is the manifestation of an oppressive culture whose predominate feature seems to be the oppression of women.

edit to add

Hate speech is not a right. Treating women like slaves is not a right. The burqa and the hijab are tools of oppression, so they should be banned.


[edit on 4-1-2010 by poet1b]

Originally posted by C10UD
id like to start of by saying im a caucasion white male living in the united kingdom, the terrorist aspect of islam is a minority of extremists yes, the reason they apear so frequent in number is because there the only muslims who make the news, just like airliner crashes apear on the news when car crashes dont. extremism is a bigger story.

Funny you mention that. An muslim group recently did a study of why BBC and CNN are so into sensationalism and not into positive "peaceful" stories. But they didn't look into why Palestinian TV has a kids show that encourages muslims to kill Jews using a guy in a mouse costume.

Probably the reason MSM is reporting terrorism is so that the common viewer can prepare because Islamic terrorism isn't stopping and at some point will affect everyone personally. So maybe with an effort to make people aware of this fact we can prevent more terrorism... unforunately, it's not working.

I cannot have this thread end with JJay55 spouting anti-Islamic fear propaganda, it's just not right, it's not what this thread was supposed to be about.



www.arabdetroit.com...

they are not real islamist if they are not prepared to behead an infidel.

reply to post by Ausar




The purpose of this thread was supposed to try and stop the bigotry and hate that not understanding a religion can cause.

Bigotry doesn't solve anything. The only thing it does accomplish is to further the agenda of the PTB to keep us scared therefore willing to let them take away more freedoms from us.

reply to post by whatukno


You mean de-humanizing the enemy like say, labeling them as "infidels" for instance?

Has it ever occurred to you to ponder just who the aggressors are?

Who are the ones trying to defend their culture and their life style, and who is trying to impose their will on others?

Originally posted by C10UD

id like to start of by saying im a caucasion white male living in the united kingdom, the terrorist aspect of islam is a minority of extremists yes, the reason they apear so frequent in number is because there the only muslims who make the news, just like airliner crashes apear on the news when car crashes dont. extremism is a bigger story.

I too am a white caucasian living in the UK.
The reason that Muslims only make the news is related to terrorism is because the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims and their supporters constantly try to provoke non-Muslims with their outrageous and frequently illegal behaviour.
A perfect example was the recent outcry over Anjam Choudray and Wootton Bassett.

The silence from the so called 'majority' of Muslims is deafening in their condemnation of the terrorists.
I acknowledge that there is a very small number of Muslims who are vocal in their criticism of the terrorists and fundamentalists, but I suggest that they are the true 'minority'.

do you not think that by alienating islam you simply rally more of the muslims towards extremism. i see alot of younger muslim or asian teenagers acting in inapriopriot manor and being vandals but i also see white caucasion youths doing the same thing. its kind of obvious that if society as a whole rejects muslims and subjects them to alienation they will want to fight back against supresion.

Alienating any group / section from he rest of society is divisive, why your particular focus / concern about Muslims?
In fact it is my understanding that in recent years society, (driven by the PC brigade), has bent itself over backwards in trying to accomodate Muslims, often at the expense of other sections of society.

christians complaining of islams evil and decietfull ways will do well to remember the slaughters of the holy war and the crusade where, christianity as a whole decided god wanted them to go and kill all the muslims for being different. yet one of their most cherrished beliefs is love thy neighbour and not to kill. hypocrysy much??

For pity's sake, The Crusades were nearly a thousand years ago and can hardly be used as a justification for the abhorent acts committed recently by Muslim terrorists.
And your understanding of The Crusades seems to be slightly blinkered.
The Muslims were equally intent on imposing their will upon the people of the region and were spreading their influence / dominance over the whole of The Middle East, Africa and even Europe.
Yes there were some atrocious acts carried out in the name of Christianity during this period, and since, but so did The Muslims...it was the norm of the day.

furthermore do u think the majority of muslims in afganistan and such want a warezone on their front doors. of course not

The majority of Afghani's want us there. They do not want to suffer again at the hands of The Taliban who want to impose a particular barbaric and repressive version of Sharia upon everyone.
You speak of atrocities yet by implication support the return of The Taliban.
Double standards methinks.

i do share but one concern with the propaganda and that is the average muslim family does make alot more babies than a caucasion white one. and i cant help but feel that religeon of any sort is problematic towards societies progress. at least unflexible ones like christianity with the whole denying evolution malarky.

Projections on the religious and ethnic make up of British society based on current birth rates suggests that by approximately 2050 Muslims could be on the verge of being in the majority in the UK.

You call Christianity unflexible yet support Islam, a religion that demands the complete and total obediance to The Quran, a book that dictates every aspect of an individuals existence.

And as for denying evolution, most Christians that I know do not deny evolution, (I am agnostic).
I think you will find that Christian fundamentalism is a predominently US phenomonom at present.

I am no fan of Christianity but at least it has moved forward and is trying to adapt to the modern world we live in; Islam seems to be regressing and entering some sort of Dark Age.

every major discovery of science has had to endure untolerable critique by religeous parties when it contradicts their belief system. it does frustrate me greatly.

Some common ground.

by no means do i disklike islam or christianity because of their belief system, but why on earth would a god want you to do the things writen in the holly books, what difference would going to a church make. i mean does god need an ego boost or somthing?

That is a whole different arguement for another place my friend, however, I suspect that there is probably more common ground there than both of us would have first admitted.

[edit on 23/1/10 by Freeborn]

This is my first post on this forum, I live in Australia like another member here that posted all the "rape" muslim links.

I have read every post so far on this topic 7 pages in and man is this good! There are all kinds of attitudes and oppinions here, and for some reason everyone thinks that they are right!

People spreading hate, people being understanding and people just beleiving everything they see on tv.
Ive seen Americans talking about their forefathers building the country and these people (muslims) shouldnt be here.

But living in Australia, I gotta say it is one of the most RACIST country's on the planet. Every new ethnic minority that has come, the media has picked on, and as most of you know know its the muslims turn, in my town Melbourne, the sudanese are being targetted.

To the point.

Regardless of religion, people are people. Simple as that, you cannot categorize people. SO, Learn your history, forget the propaganda that the media who BTW is controlled by one person is teaching you. Go and learn about the history of rome, hitler, and you will find a striking resemblemce to today, they blow up the towers themselfs to and blame it on the so called 'enemy' in this case the muslims and let the roller coaster begin. Just like Nero burned down ROME... Hitler used the same tactics..

You would think in an age of internet and access of information people would actually be researching instead of believe the idiot box they see everyday. God help us.
Look at history and tell me how many times the goverment has been on the 'little' peoples side? They have their own agenda.
So cut the muslim/christianity crap, and think before 911 ... were muslims such demons then?? So overnight it all changed right?

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Ausar

 

The purpose of this thread was supposed to try and stop the bigotry and hate that not understanding a religion can cause.

Bigotry doesn't solve anything. The only thing it does accomplish is to further the agenda of the PTB to keep us scared therefore willing to let them take away more freedoms from us.

Great thread. Begotry and hate will not seize untill ignorance is eradicated; and ignorance cannot be eradicated when conceit reigns supreme in the minds of many. A great thing has to happen for conceit to be humbled; and that great event shall occur soon, humbling conceit and disconcerting ignorance.

There is no religion that does not have zealots; in fact the Christians were worse than the Muslims are at the time of the Crusaders. Religion is very divisive, and is not a good representation of godliness; and that is simply because religiosity is a tool of the devil, as clearly denoted in Luke 4: 5 - 8; and this is the reason why there are many unbelievers in God today: for, in seeing the state of religiosity, who will want to believe in God?

The devil succeeds in using religion to turn souls against their Creator; but a greater than the devil shall manifest truth to everyone, such that the devil can never infiltrate that soul ever again. And begotry, hate and zealotry shall be transformed into love, godliness. Everyone has godliness in them; the harder it is for something to manifest, the greater it is when it does! Peace be unto all!!!

reply to post by whatukno


You my friend have become blinded by a form of jihad, first they are very nice and great neighbors but it is an act that by their religion they must follow called taqqiya explained here: www.danielpipes.org...

Now a story you might not of heard of, a great Muslim neighbor and friend, nicest person you want to meet, during a block party one day we were talking about a trip we were to be taking in a week or so to NY, this fine great Muslim neighbor simple said “you will not be going” but said nothing much more after this comment, this was the weekend before 9/11, by 9/10 this great neighbor was gone and never seen again and we all know what happened on 9/11. He was in fact a great Muslim doing exactly what his religion taught him to due, taqqiya. This is a true story.

The founder of CAIR, is often quoted as saying, “Islam, Muslim are not here to assimilate but to be dominate”

Jyzia a tax on non Muslims
Taqiyya the right to lie to cause deception
Shariah laws of Allah, including multi wives and pedophilia
Akbar greatest or biggest
Auliya not allowed to friend others, none Muslims need not apply
Jahelea time before Islam Shariah

Did you notice the one we are talking about Auliya and what they are taught?
This is a game, and Islam has been at long before America was someone’s wet dream, it’s a game with a game book that lays out all that is to be done and how, you just have to read it. That is exactly what Thomas Jefferson did; his Koran was not for worship, but a play book to learn how the enemy thinks as he was fighting the Barbary wars. I think Keith Ellison sworn in using this book is the greatest insult to Jefferson and America, more on this here: ezinearticles.com...

reply to post by whatukno


Too true,only if others thought this way.and its not a war against terror,shouldnt be a war,its just lining peoples pockets thats what it is.

reply to post by drmeola


and you my friend are ignorant to the truth.please check where you get yor sources from.islam is a peaceful and loving religion.