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The Islam Conspiracy

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posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 


then let me ask you the question - and I would appreciate a response that doesn't fall too far away from the question

for instance - a yes or no would be great

do you believe the only reason Muslims immigrate into the west is to conquer it from within?




posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by JJay55
 


then let me ask you the question - and I would appreciate a response that doesn't fall too far away from the question

for instance - a yes or no would be great

do you believe the only reason Muslims immigrate into the west is to conquer it from within?


Ultimately, yes.
Principle: Dar ul Islam.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


Why state the obvious, because it seems you have forgotten it.

Not every Muslim, but behind every burqa and hijab there is a Muslim family that seeks to conquer our culture and to destroy it. While most probably will not be actively working to make this happen, they will support any such efforts.

Remove the ability of the men to put the veil between the women and western society, and most of the women will embrace the multiculturalism of western society. This is what the men who demand that those veils be worn fear the most.

I thought I had made this very clear.

You are right, attempting to discuss the issue is a waste of time. There is no respect or consideration given towards my perspective by those who side with Islam.

You are the closest thing to an exception. Maybe some day soon you will wake up to the realities of Islam.

It is clear from the beginning the op's only goal was to play the victim even though he was the one from the beginning dehumanizing those who speak out against Islam as idiots and bigots. It is those who claim to be defending Islam from bigotry who have engaged in the most personal attacks.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 

I'll add:
Dangerous to the US that Islamic principle is that if an Islamic land is attacked (Iraq, Afghanistan), jihad becomes fard ayn, or incumbent upon every individual believer (1.6 billion) to join or to aid in any way he can including hiraba. That's the law in Islam, so all immigrants are obligated, whether they accept the challenge as a suicide bomber or an evil eye/prayer to a non-muslim they are participating. As you can see... there are many participants.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 




What technology existed in the Middle East before Islam came along quickly died away after Islam took over.


Nah, that is wrong. So wrong i just suggest reading about the Muslims did during the Ottoman empire..and i suggest reading about the Moors to those guys areinteresting.



The Turkish Ottoman empire was one of conquest and nothing more. They failed to conquer Europe, and succeeded in awakening an enemy that then conquered them.


They did. It's called Spain. They had a ginormous library too, or so i've read and been told...but that's how history is taught ain't it? And they stayed a long time too, close to 700 years. It officaly ended around 1923...not bad eh?



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 


Thanks for the excellent links.

That interactive map was very interesting.

Here is an article that tells it all.

www.jihadwatch.org...


Even in niqabs, they are verbally and physically harassed. This occurs despite the enthusiasm of Naomi Wolf and similar enablers for the supposedly "liberating" aspects of the ironically ostentatious "modesty" of Islamic attire... all of which could arguably be achieved in the West with, say, conventional church-friendly attire, unless one is going for anonymity, or actually seeking attention for being really, really modest.

The problem is, the objectification of women is ultimately in the eye of the beholder, hijab or no hijab, niqab or no niqab. Where the hijab is successfully imposed on a culture, it becomes part of a quid pro quo arrangement to be left alone (and not attacked), and thus becomes in itself the ultimate symbol of objectification, lest a woman be found unworthy of respect or even safety without it, and often with it. (See also: Sheik al-Hilali, and this Egyptian ad.)

"Harassment across Arab world drives women inside," by Sarah El Deeb for the Associated Press, December 15:

The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, appears to be designed to drive women out of public spaces and seems to happen regardless of what they are wearing, they said.

That's exactly the goal, and it is rooted in Islamic tradition, which calls for a woman not to leave the house unescorted by her husband or a suitable male relative, or without his permission.


This is what they want everywhere.

When you see the veil, you know there is an enemy nearby.

Only a fool ignores this.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 


do you mean:



Noun 1. Dar al-Islam - areas where Muslims are in the majority

www.thefreedictionary.com...



Dar al-Islam (Arabic: دار الإسلام‎ literally house/abode of Islam; or Dar as-Salam, house/abode of Peace; or Dar al-Tawhid, house/abode of Union) is a term used by Muslim scholars to refer to those countries where Muslims can practice their religion freely. These are usually Islamic cultures wherein Muslims represent the majority of the population, and so the government promises them protection. Most Dar al-Islam areas are surrounded by other Islamic societies to ensure public protection.

en.wikipedia.org...-Islam

curious - how does Dar al-Islam explain why emigration by Muslims from Islamic nations into the west automatically suggests an attempt to conquer our culture?

perhaps you mean Dar al Harb:

Dar al Islam is defined as opposed to Dar al Harb, the house of war, where it is permitted according to to some to wage Jihad, holy war for Islam. There are also various intermediate areas defined, such as Dar al Hudna, lands outside Islam that are subject to trucial obligations, and Dar al Kufr (the home of the unbelievers), a term specifically used by Muhammad to refer to territories of the Quraish tribe.

www.mideastweb.org...

I hate to move backwards - because I know you will be tempted to employ the masterful and ever useful Cherry-picking-blah-blah-blah argument

but - how would this be any different from Christianity's little forays into non-Christian territories?

if you argue that our yesterdays don't count - then you can't really use Islam's history in your argument

we are forced to deal with today - and only today

fair enough

the fact that we conquered the Native American culture that existed here prior to our arrival is meaningless then - I'm assuming

do I assume correctly?



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by cenpuppie
 



They did. It's called Spain. They had a ginormous library too, or so i've read and been told...but that's how history is taught ain't it? And they stayed a long time too, close to 700 years. It officaly ended around 1923...not bad eh?


And you brag about it.

Your intentions are obviously clear.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by JJay55
 


do you mean:



Noun 1. Dar al-Islam - areas where Muslims are in the majority

www.thefreedictionary.com...

...

do I assume correctly?

Dude. You asked for a one word answer then you criticize. Nice.
Dar ul Islam is one nation, one world. Understand that from an Islamic point of view? That is my final answer. Immigrants want the US to be dar ul Islam. Get it?
Dar ul harb involves non-muslims in one of the 57 OIC countries and not US soil. So yes, there is a difference in your original question. If you want to justify the action of modern Islamic aggression with some example of native Americans then... whatever. Keep looking up references, you'll be there in another 4-5 years if you study more. If you want to challenge me to an intellectual duel about Islam I will win.

Here's more examples of infiltration currently in DC on the floor being investigated as they should be: Paul Sperry’s "Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives Have Penetrated Washington. In which he mentions:

"We should be able to infiltrate the sensitive intelligence agencies or the embassies in order to collect information," the document says. Unfortunately, our "sensitive intelligence agencies" have not made it very hard for them to put agents in place. Thanks to sloppy background checks and political correctness, a number of them have penetrated the government, including:

• Abdurahman Alamoudi, who worked for the State Department and Pentagon, where he created the military's Muslim chaplain corps — even though he was caught on tape supporting terrorists at anti-Israeli rallies. He's now behind bars for terror, exposed as one of al-Qaida's top fundraisers in the U.S.

• David Hossain Safavian, who got a high-level White House job despite records showing he lobbied on behalf of Alamoudi. Safavian is serving an 18-month prison term for lying to federal investigators.

• Faisal Gill, who omitted the fact he worked for Alamoudi in his application for a high-level Homeland Security Department job, where he obtained top secret clearance before being suspended.

• Ahmad Al-Halabi, whom the Air Force assigned to Gitmo as a translator even though he previously had been under investigation for making anti-American statements. Halabi later pleaded guilty to mishandling classified information and lying to investigators.

• Ahmed Fathy Mehalba, another Gitmo translator who was hired as a contractor even though his girlfriend was investigated for stealing a classified Army laptop. Mehalba later was convicted of stealing secret documents from Gitmo.

• Sadeq Naji Ahmed, whom the Transportation Security Administration hired as an airport screener after the Air Force kicked him out for making statements supporting Osama bin Laden and praising the 9/11 attacks. Ahmed worked almost a year before TSA found he previously had his security clearance revoked.

• Warith-Deen Umar, hired by the Federal Bureau of Prisons to minister to Muslim inmates, even though he praised the 9/11 hijackers as Allah's "martyrs." Despite reports Umar gave extremist sermons, the government gave him outstanding evaluations.”



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





Why state the obvious, because it seems you have forgotten it.


then you have an amazing ability to misinterpret what I was trying to say

don't call my integrity into question poet1b - I am neither disloyal or stupid when I question my countries choices or it's approach to handling problems


You are right, attempting to discuss the issue is a waste of time. There is no respect or consideration given towards my perspective by those who side with Islam.


that may be the entire problem right there

you see this as being about siding WITH Islam against you and others that think like you

it's not that simple - and it's not an accurate assessment of the situation

but at this point - at least as far as this thread goes - it may be a waste of time to drag this out any longer


You are the closest thing to an exception. Maybe some day soon you will wake up to the realities of Islam.


:-) assuming I don't already see (as much of any of us will ever see or understand the realities of those who are different from us) the realities of Islam

no - I don't imagine either of us are going to agree on all of it


It is clear from the beginning the op's only goal was to play the victim even though he was the one from the beginning dehumanizing those who speak out against Islam as idiots and bigots. It is those who claim to be defending Islam from bigotry who have engaged in the most personal attacks.


I think the OP has succeeded in proving his point

but - maybe that's just my opinion :-)


[edit on 12/16/2009 by Spiramirabilis]



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 


:-)

dude - I asked a question - received a reply - and moved on from there

didn't really answer my questions - but - oh well - I have to end this for now

pretty sure we can pick up again later - I know not much will have changed when I come back :-)



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by JJay55
 


:-)

dude - I asked a question - received a reply - and moved on from there

didn't really answer my questions - but - oh well - I have to end this for now

pretty sure we can pick up again later - I know not much will have changed when I come back :-)

And when you return you may address me as madam.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 


dude - when I return - you may address me as monkeyman for all I care

:-)



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by JJay55
 


dude - when I return - you may address me as monkeyman for all I care

:-)

Your signature "I love all the funny monkeys" ... might make that appropriate. And if you wish to call women "dudes" then that's your choice.

But back to the topic. Converts Lindh, Gadahn, Julius Ford, Richard Reid, Joel Hinrichs, Ryan Anderson, John Allan Mohammed, Malvo, Patrick Gott, and Paul R. Hall aka Hassan Abujihad are some of the homegrown that has doubled in 2009. This should be enough information for those still in denial, those still arguing the religious aspect, those who think there are "moderate" muslims, and those who are anti-US-governemt to maybe do some research to learn the truth and educate others on the dangers we face in 2010.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


If the ops goal was to increase the divide between the two sides of the issue, then he succeeded at that enormously.

I would say that by calling anyone who has an issue with Islam a bigot, the op drove more people to dislike Islam than he succeeded at gaining more acceptance.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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From the mouths of Islam:
www.ynetnews.com...

"Hamas politburo chief Khaled Mashaal said on Tuesday that Islamist militant groups would back Iran if the country was attacked by Israel, Iranian state television reported.

"All Islamist militant groups will form a united front with Iran against Israel if it attacks Iran," Mashaal told a news conference in Tehran."

ALL ISLAMIST militant hroups will unite. That is fard ayn. Not only will Israel be targeted but all non-muslims because that is legal and part of the principle. Typical Islamic threat, typical Islamic agenda, and I guess with the OP means by Islamic Conspiracy.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


If the ops goal was to increase the divide between the two sides of the issue, then he succeeded at that enormously.

I would say that by calling anyone who has an issue with Islam a bigot, the op drove more people to dislike Islam than he succeeded at gaining more acceptance.

Hey Popeye... don't feed the bigot thing. Spiromonkeyguy is attempting to understand.
If we know there is no Islam Conspiracy and the threat is real and their agenda transparent then the only thing to do is use the opportunity to educate.
Carrion.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 


madam - I have returned

yes - already



...Converts Lindh, Gadahn, Julius Ford, Richard Reid, Joel Hinrichs, Ryan Anderson, John Allan Mohammed, Malvo, Patrick Gott, and Paul R. Hall aka Hassan Abujihad are some of the homegrown that has doubled in 2009.


confused - you saying the threat has grown by 5 guys in 2009?


This should be enough information for those still in denial, those still arguing the religious aspect, those who think there are "moderate" muslims, and those who are anti-US-governemt to maybe do some research to learn the truth and educate others on the dangers we face in 2010.


you think just naming 10 guys considered to be a threat is enough information to warrant hating an entire group of people?



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





I would say that by calling anyone who has an issue with Islam a bigot, the op drove more people to dislike Islam than he succeeded at gaining more acceptance.


2 things:

first - if you go back and read the OP you'll see that it was never said that anyone that has an issue with Islam is a bigot

in fact - he tried to establish some balance from the start

do you mean to suggest that there is no bigotry involved when it comes to discussing Islam - that every statement made against Islam is accurate and valid?

next - this idea that questioning people's motives in fact creates bigotry is nonsense

it's also childish

you may as well say - it's your fault I am the way I am

we are each responsible for our own views, choices and actions

or do you not believe in personal responsibility?

as you and I have already discussed - bigotry is one of those words - what does it really mean in the end?

well - whatever it means - I can honestly say that if I am biased in some way I am responsible for that bias

I'm not going to blame you for my weaknesses - or credit you with my strengths

all of it - up to me - good or bad



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 





Hey Popeye... don't feed the bigot thing. Spiromonkeyguy is attempting to understand.


:-) you know - we can hear you...

silly dudette - if you had been paying any attention at all - you'd already see that Spiromonkeyguy understands - she just doesn't agree with you all


If we know there is no Islam Conspiracy and the threat is real and their agenda transparent then the only thing to do is use the opportunity to educate.


tell me more about this transparent agenda - what exactly IS our agenda?

nobody seems to want to explain this to me - very interested in your views


Carrion.


I want to use this so much it hurts

:-)



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