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The Islam Conspiracy

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posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
you don’t think – especially in light of your entire argument – that we consider Muslims to be inferior?

it’s fairly obvious that you do

Well I gave it a shot but now I'm done. I don't obviously think muslims are inferior, never said that, never insinuated that, never even mentioned that. So have a nice day Mr Spirmwhatever. Good luck to you.

There are people who till insist on making this a racism issue, no way to get around it. This usually comes from a deep engrained guilt of racism themselves so... that's just life.




posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by SorensDespair
If your argument is that non-secular governments are dangerous in that they enforce religious law in the same way that they enforce criminal law, then you problem, really, is that they follow a different form of government than your own, which is something you're going to have to get over.

That's fine as long as it stays within their borders. Unfortunately the borders are not being respected by muslims.
If you do some research you will see how rapidly these borders and respect is being broken down.

How quickly we forget 911.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by JJay55


There are people who till insist on making this a racism issue, no way to get around it. This usually comes from a deep engrained guilt of racism themselves so... that's just life.




Islam is a religion and not a race...



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by traumst_du
I just wanted to share a quick point aswell, about this "peaceful" religion.
When my fiance was 13, he attended a public school in Greenacre, there was a LOT of middle eastern muslims in that school. He left school after the second year of high school because of the death threats and just ridiculous bullying he got for being a white non-muslim. He was actually chased home with knives.

chew that, digest it

Thank you so much for sharing this first hand information. You have seen proof that Islam is not peaceful as it claims.

Death threats from muslims need to be prosecuted when they happen in the US. There should be zero tolerance for this behavior.

All the blessings.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by JJay55

There are people who till insist on making this a racism issue, no way to get around it. This usually comes from a deep engrained guilt of racism themselves so... that's just life.


Islam is a religion and not a race...

Tell that to all the people who call me a racist and a bigot.
Ahhh, they don't know better. Name calling is an easy defense mechanism for those who are afraid to face the truth that Islam is not peaceful and muslims do act violently against non-muslims.
Facing the truth would awaken those who think muslims like the Ft Hood shooter are insane and a victim rather than an intelligent determined muslim who wanted to kill non-muslims.
Oh well, it will take time to educate the uneducated. Hopefully there won't be another 911 before that and people won't have to question "why" again.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by merkava
reply to post by traumst_du
 


If you didn't follow the religion you were born with than that doesn't mean the rest shouldn't either.

Everyone has a choice whether they live in East, West, North or South.

You might not have had a good experience with islam but the 1.5Bil muslims on this planet do like their faith.

And you can't really say that babies who are born into muslim families are brainwashed soo much that they become serial rapists, terrorist radicals when they grow up.






[edit on 14-12-2009 by merkava]


Did you even READ my post?
I'm not saying just cause I don't no one else should, I'm saying it's MY perspective, how things are in MY situation, and how I've seen enough bad things to turn me off it. I'm not saying ALL muslims are bad, I'm saying i disagree with their values, I think a lot of it is barbaric and shouldn't be practiced in a modern society. people are MORE than welcome to practice it IN their own home as long as they don't try and convert other people and not do any harm to anybody else because they don't belong to the same faith.
And I'm not saying ALL of them are brainwashed to become serial rapists etc. I'm saying the ones that speak up in the media bring that image upon themselves. My whole big family are muslims. I don't hate them, they're not terrorists/rapists.
And sir, some people who are born to it and have been living in the middle east all or most of their lives don't know any better.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 



Tell that to all the people who call me a racist and a bigot.
Ahhh, they don't know better. Name calling is an easy defense mechanism for those who are afraid to face the truth that Islam is not peaceful and muslims do act violently against non-muslims.


It's bigotry when you paint everyone in Islam as not peaceful and act violently. It's obviously not true. So yes in this instance your being a bigot.

If you said some or many than it wouldn't be so slanderous.



Facing the truth would awaken those who think muslims like the Ft Hood shooter are insane and a victim rather than an intelligent determined muslim who wanted to kill non-muslims.


He is insane, or at least a intelligent determined KILLER. It wouldn't matter if he was Muslim, Pagan, or worshiped the flying spaghetti monster. Using religion to justify an act like this is an excuse. Plain and simple. A person still has free will. Obviously not all 1.6 billion Muslims are being violent and raping and being suicide bombers.



Oh well, it will take time to educate the uneducated. Hopefully there won't be another 911 before that and people won't have to question "why" again.


Radicals. I can understand that there are radicals. Not every Muslim is a radical. This is why you get called a bigot. Because you portray EVERY Muslim as a radical violent terrorist. Some are, they are brainwashed into a jihadist idea. They do want to do harm wherever they can.

But not all of this religion is like that. This is why you get called a bigot. Because you cannot see that distinction.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 


I'm not sure what your point is, or why you (and so many others) love to use the number 911. Good work. You've found 5 Islamic crackpots (and likely dozens of US government traitors) and you have absolute proof of the ultimate evil of Islam.

The point of the Quran is to build a moral guideline for proper living, for yourself and community (of all religions). And, historically, Islam has lived in peace with other religions far more successfully than Christianity. I hate to bring it back to the Third Crusades, but Saladin's armies were far more lenient and forgiving than Richard. (but that's just one example... I shouldn't use just one example to make a judgment about an entire religion, should I
)



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by merkava
 



And you can't really say that babies who are born into muslim families are brainwashed soo much that they become serial rapists, terrorist radicals when they grow up.


But you can say that Muslim's raised in Muslim families are so brainwashed that they are anywhere from a hundred times to a thousand times more likely to become terrorist radicals and serial rapists when they grow up.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
But you can say that Muslim's raised in Muslim families are so brainwashed that they are anywhere from a hundred times to a thousand times more likely to become terrorist radicals and serial rapists when they grow up.


This, my friend, is laughable.
On the point of brainwashing, there are those (much more educated than you or I) who have written on the philosophy of forming the self. They would say that everyone is formed on the framework of tradition. The term brainwashing is no more applicable there than it is in your case (seemingly "brainwashed" to believe that those who hold beliefs and form selves different than yours are morally corrupt). There is no tradition of rape and radicalism in Islam any more than there is in Christianity or 'Westernalism'. The problem forms when they (and me and you) refuse to hold that there is any credulity that there is rational or reasonable ideals outside of your own. This creates a divisiveness that leads to hatred, resentment and pity.

I understand the paradox of this. This cultural relativism (or as Taylor might say, "soft relativism") appears to take the responsibility away from the individual and lay the blame for radical acts on the culture. This same relativism is what we're taught from childhood to accept, for good or bad.
Hell, I'm using similar reasoning now, assuming that you would "know better" if you didn't grow up in the backwoods somewhere, or under a militant Christian/American/Western culture. But I think that if you were to create a better argument than what you have so far, I might be able to see exactly where you're coming from. Unfortunately, your reasoning so far lacks any real logic and is full of fallacies.

It's a shame because I'd love to hear a valid and sound argument for your point.


Edit to clarify the term cultural relativism:
Usually, this is described as a way of saying "It's your culture, who am I to judge". Here, I describe it as the byproduct of that thinking. Sort of a cultural relativism^2, where the judgment is allowed, but only in the morality of the actions of the individual, since it is impossible to be absolutely culturally relative because of some major moral discrepancies (such as cannibalism, as an extreme example) . Therefore, as we judge others in another culture, we blame the culture for forming the poor moral structure of which the members of that culture are victims.

Sorry for any confusion.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by SorensDespair]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by SorensDespair
 


I would assume that you grew up under conditions where unrealistic idealism was paraded as accurate representations of the world, but you could have grown up in a household which embraced bigotry, which you continue to rebel against as an adult, even if that means denial of the realities of this world.

Sorry, but I attended one the the best school systems in the U.S. taking all the high level courses. I am a liberal ideologically.

There are also others more educated than myself who in fact would support me opinions, and oppose yours, but that is all nothing but a pissing contest disguised as intellectual discourse.

You don't like the term brainwashing, I understand, the term conditioning would be more appropriate.

As far as traditions of rape and radicalism are concerned, they are readily apparent on the unique moral and ethical codes of Islam verses the rest of the world and all other mainstream religions.

Islam is the only culture that teaches this belief that if you die facing the enemy you will immediately go to heaven where numerous virgins are waiting for you. This belief includes the ideal of many branches of Islam that blowing yourself up in a market killing women and children also qualifies you for the virgins in heaven. If this isn't a radical belief, then what would you define as radical?

Islamic nations are also the only nations who punish women for being raped, who have a policy that a woman out in public unescorted by male relative who is raped, was only asking to be raped. Once again, how do you justify this as being anything less than extremely radical.

I could present more examples, but this should do for now.

I will also say that not all children born into Islam are raised in extremely conditioned circumstances. Chances are if the women in your family were not expected to always wear a hijab or a burqa in public, you probably received no more conditioning than the rest of us.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Conditioning is a nicer term, but still inaccurate. Anyone growing up in any culture faces the same type of conditioning. You're conditioned to eat pork because you're fed bacon in the morning, while Islam and Judaism would say that you're being conditioned or brainwashed into sin.

And Islam doesn't say "kill your enemies and go to heaven". That's absurd. It does say, however, that if you defend your faith and your people from forced bent on destroying Islam, then you will die a hero. This is no different than the stuff they tell soldiers in the military. Please explain to me the difference, if there is one.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by SorensDespair
 


First of all, you don't have to be conditioned to like eating bacon. Where you derived that idea from is laughable. Clearly you don't understand the concept of conditioning. I suggest you read up on Pavlov's work.

Second of all, I never claimed


"kill your enemies and go to heaven"


That is a gross misquote and misinterpretation on your part.

It is starting to look like I am in a battle of wits with an unarmed man, or perhaps woman.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Well so far all we have seen you continually accuse Muslims of being violent terrorists and rapists... So to put the rhetoric aside for the moment...

What is your solution??

Arrest them all on the charge of Terrorism?
Kick all Muslims out of western countries?
Pack them into trains destined for labour camps?

For a moment earlier i thought you may actually be trying to learn more about Muslims and had just been misinformed. However, having read more of your posts I have come to the following conclusions...

You are hate filled

You are bigoted

You are a xenophobe

You have not spent any great length of time outside of your own ethnic/religious group

You watch too much Fox news

Oh wait... what’s that??? You don’t like it when someone who doesn’t really know you draws conclusions about you??? Well now you know what Muslims must feel when reading your posts!!!

I am sorry, i don’t normally use them tactics but i feel backed into a corner. If someone was insulting one of your friends how would you react???

You ARE insulting some of my friends with you misinformed rhetoric!!! I have explained to you what i have seen with my own eyes but you still choose to believe what you have read... Even an ex solider has been on here to say that his experience with Muslims was a positive one... How can you ignore that???? But oh know... we are meant to take the word of YOU?? Someone who seems to have very little life experience outside of your own little enclave!

Good and Bad in everyone... open your mind!

I will now leave this thread because it is filled with hate... and I do not want to be dragged down to that level... I really do wish you well and hope you find truth



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by poet1b
 


Well so far all we have seen you continually accuse Muslims of being violent terrorists and rapists... So to put the rhetoric aside for the moment...

What is your solution??

Arrest them all on the charge of Terrorism?
Kick all Muslims out of western countries?
Pack them into trains destined for labour camps?


You missed 3 more solutions.

1)Ban islam and muslims coming to the West and i guess the muslims would expect the same in their countries.i.e getting rid of foreign forces,contracters, free trade of weapons and nuclear asenal, no border controls, no sanctions, no political interference.

2)Commit genocide like the russians did in chechnya and bosnia on muslims living in the West.

3)Drop a nuke on every islamic nation.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SorensDespair
 


First of all, you don't have to be conditioned to like eating bacon. Where you derived that idea from is laughable. Clearly you don't understand the concept of conditioning. I suggest you read up on Pavlov's work.



I know plenty about classical conditioning. The point of the post was that you're conditioned to think it's ok to eat pork. This is done by feeding you pork with no negative/positive punishment. If eating pork is a sin, then you're conditioned to sin.



"kill your enemies and go to heaven"


That is a gross misquote and misinterpretation on your part.




From your post:

Islam is the only culture that teaches this belief that if you die facing the enemy you will immediately go to heaven


And my response to this still applies, but if you feel like disregarding it, that's fine.

Also, Islam is a religion, not a culture. And here, I think, is where we find one of the core problems with your argument. The two terms are NOT interchangeable.

[edit on 15-12-2009 by SorensDespair]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Why don't you openly admit that you hate islam as a whole not only the radicals?

I think everyone here has had enough of playing musical chairs.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by SorensDespair
Also, Islam is a religion, not a culture. And here, I think, is where we find one of the core problems with your argument. The two terms are NOT interchangeable.

No, Islam is a religion, a culture and a LAW. First step is understanding that.
It is not Christianity and not freedom of choice.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by poet1b
 


Well so far all we have seen you continually accuse Muslims of being violent terrorists and rapists... So to put the rhetoric aside for the moment...

What is your solution??

Arrest them all on the charge of Terrorism?
Kick all Muslims out of western countries?
Pack them into trains destined for labour camps?

For a moment earlier i thought you may actually be trying to learn more about Muslims and had just been misinformed. However, having read more of your posts I have come to the following conclusions...

You are hate filled

You are bigoted

You are a xenophobe

You have not spent any great length of time outside of your own ethnic/religious group

You watch too much Fox news

Oh wait... what’s that??? You don’t like it when someone who doesn’t really know you draws conclusions about you??? Well now you know what Muslims must feel when reading your posts!!!

I am sorry, i don’t normally use them tactics but i feel backed into a corner. If someone was insulting one of your friends how would you react???

You ARE insulting some of my friends with you misinformed rhetoric!!! I have explained to you what i have seen with my own eyes but you still choose to believe what you have read... Even an ex solider has been on here to say that his experience with Muslims was a positive one... How can you ignore that???? But oh know... we are meant to take the word of YOU?? Someone who seems to have very little life experience outside of your own little enclave!

Good and Bad in everyone... open your mind!

I will now leave this thread because it is filled with hate... and I do not want to be dragged down to that level... I really do wish you well and hope you find truth



Oh gawd, are you f-ing kidding?
Please understand Islam and what it is all about.
Have a nice day.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SorensDespair
 


First of all, you don't have to be conditioned to like eating bacon. Where you derived that idea from is laughable. Clearly you don't understand the concept of conditioning. I suggest you read up on Pavlov's work.

Second of all, I never claimed


"kill your enemies and go to heaven"


That is a gross misquote and misinterpretation on your part.

It is starting to look like I am in a battle of wits with an unarmed man, or perhaps woman.

Sometimes it's best to leave uneducated people to learn in ways that accompany them, if you know what I mean.
That Pavlov thing cracked me up.

Back to the topic (as it has been derailed by those who insist that racism and other Western factors are the most important thing in the universe).
Islam has a distinct 7 phase plan that was gleaned from captured computers and stated in AQ videos and the general principles of Islam. There is no way to argue the words that come directly from Islam. (sure there are those that will but... I don't know why).
The 7 phase plan started with the Awakening on 911. This was intended to get the attention of the West and in tradition of Islam warn the contender that they have 10 years to prepare for the battle. Those of you who are unfamiliar with Islamic custom can probably google that principle... well after you learn Arabic because all sacred things are in the mother language and not the be translated by the inferior non-muslims. Anyway, the Awakening was the start of preparation for dar ul Harb on foreign land and a signal that aggression is real.
The date 911 was chosen because it is a Coptic Christian holiday representing the same principle. First the Copts, then the other non-muslims systematically and according to plan. The 2nd phase is Eyes Opening, acts of Islamic violence and sword rattling to show the culture and how the battle will ensue. The rest is also very interesting and perfectly Islam.
Now if you non-understanding non-muslims would like to know more I'd be glad to tell you... because I have freedom to share this information... well except for the death threats I get from muslims who don't want you to hear it.



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