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The Islam Conspiracy

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posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Muckster
 



OK... when i lived in Newham the majority of woman in a store would be in burqas or hijabs... so i guess thats a yes.

Woman who did not wear burqas or hijabs where not harassed (This includes my mother, sisters and friends)


It is good to hear that not all Islamic communities in western nations who takeover a neighborhood start becoming abusive to non-Muslims, because all of the stories I have been reading portray the situation differently than what you have observed.

I imagine Muslim communities are all unique, like individuals all have their uniqueness. It may possibly be a reflection of the local Iman. If the local Iman calls for tolerance, sees the need to blend with the local culture, and become a part of the local culture, then the local community will most likely reflect those values.

However, when the local Iman preaches intolerance and calls for establishment of sharia law, then there is a much higher likelihood that this community will most likely be radicalized, and hostile to non-Muslims.

Any political or religious leaders who calls for women to be raped, or for that matter, describe women who refuse to dress to their standards as pieces of meat asking to be raped, should be jailed in some dark dank dungeon until they rot as far as I am concerned.

Can you understand my attitude about this?

Yeah, there are a lot of men who have no respect for women.

In Islam, I see an entire religion that has no respect for women and is based on denigrating and subjectifying women.

Why should I respect a religion who considers the word of a woman to be half as valuable as the word of a man?

And I have to ask myself why any woman would belong to such a religion.



ok... to be fair... I see why you think the way that you think! And I am sure that there are communities of extreme Muslims in certain areas of the world.

But I choose to believe what I see with my own eyes far more than what I read in the media.

Let’s be honest here... Do you think the media is completely honest and impartial when it comes to what stories they report??

Do you think that the media wants to tell you about the millions of people living in harmony together? Or do you think they would rather highlight the few negative stories in order to sell stories and make money.

Sad fact is... shock and horror sells!!

Of course I have had bad experiences with some Muslims... When I was a teenager I was involved in a serious knife fight which was started by a group of Muslim youths who thought we were disrespecting them. We had no weapons and they had a mixture of knifes, bats... one even had a corkscrew... i was stabbed and a very good friend of mine ended up almost losing his eye in the fight!!

But i always knew that the people to blame for that incident were the very rough gang we happened to have the fight with... not Islam... Not Asians... just this particular group of kids.

It was a rough area when I was growing up and I had many fights through my teenage years... Black kids, whites kids, Asian kids... didn’t matter... it was just a rough area!!

I know plenty of people who have grown up in predominately white areas and have the same type of negative stories as me regarding fights and knife crime!

But on the whole my experience was positive... I made lots of good friends from all backgrounds... people who I am still friends with to this day!

Anyway, sorry cos i seem to be digressing a bit here so back on topic...

You cannot always trust what you read in the papers or see on the news... You have to get out there and mix with different people to get a true understanding of how people really are. Otherwise you are just excepting other people’s opinion as fact... When the real fact is you can only trust what you see with your own eyes... and my eyes have shown me that people are capable of hate, love, anger, and empathy... no matter what their colour/religion!

I must say, i honestly get the feeling that you are simply searching for truth... just be careful that you don’t seek that truth from just one source.

All the best my friend,

Muckster


[edit on 14-12-2009 by Muckster]




posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by traumst_du
 


What an exceptional post, you should get applause. You did a great job of using humor to address this very important subject that people just want to sweep under the table, and pretend that nothing is wrong.

Many women who have managed to escape Islam report that they were forced to wear the burqa and the hijab, but those who want to dehumanize those of us to refuse to ignore the growing threat from Islam refuse to acknowledge this.


but what do you do when you hear one of their leaders say that women who aren't covered from head to two are presenting themselves like a raw piece of meat? what do you do when they practically declare that they can do that because they're muslims and that's how it is in their culture? that women are a game of rape if they aren't covered up.


YEP This is the crucial point of the issue.

If a man has his women dressed up in these horrible outfits, why shouldn't I assume he believes that women who do not dress in this manner are whores and sluts, and therefore pieces of meat fair game for rape. The attitude of his culture clearly embraces this concept.

Somehow I am wrong for not wanting such a person to live in the community where I live. I am wrong for wanting to prevent such a person from ever getting the opportunity to treat my daughter, or any woman, like a piece of meat fair game for rape, or have his son do the same?

I am supposed to be inhumane for recognizing this?



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 



I'm tired of the entire subject, but it's not going away

and the polarization - when it exists - exists for a reason



Group B is dangerous because they ignore very serious problems.


in what way do they ignore very serious problems?

I'm focusing on the word ignore because I'm curious - do you see it as a case of Group B purposefully choosing to dismiss a real problem in favor of pursuing their own agenda?

if so, what would that agenda be?

or, do you think that Group B just doesn't see or understand the real problem?

can we all agree on what the real problem is?

my questions revolve around Group B because - that's my Group :-)

the virulence is obvious - and it exists on both sides it's true

however, if we analyzed it post for post - I wonder what we'd really see?

the OP is trying to demonstrate that there exists a concerted effort to put Islam in as bad a light as possible

he's done a very good job I think of trying to discuss this in a rational and polite manner - despite being called a traitor and an idiot



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Muckster
 


NO, you can't always trust what you read in the papers, but you can't ignore it either.

I have never seen a lion kill a man, but I am not about to jump into the lion pit at the zoo to find out. I think it is wiser to trust information learned from the news media on matters such as this.

Believe it or not, I do not live in some isolated world where I am not able to observe what is going on in the big outside world. I am a life long observer of human behavior not lacking instinct and understanding. My opinions are based on what I learned not only from the media but also what I have observed.

The thing you seem to fail to recognize is that the Islamic attitude towards women is an attitude that the rest of the world has grown beyond. The entire attitude towards women in Islam is extreme and radical. This I observe regularly with my own eyes.

Anyone who believes that a woman in public must cover herself from head to toe is an extremist from my perspective.

I do not know what percentage of Islamic men whose women cover themselves from head to toe see women as pieces of meat fair game for rape, or how many men who think this way will act on it.

What I do know is that this beliefs is a very cheap excuse to be a sexual predator and opportunist, and I don't want these predators and opportunist walking the streets.

The Muslim attitude towards rape is well recorded by the laws in the countries controlled by Islam. Why shouldn't we believe the stories about these problems in the paper? Why shouldn't we believe the people who state that they want to turn us into their slaves?



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by JJay55
 





We really aren't talking about individual people.


I disagree


So if we distinguish this we can get into conversation without all the misconceptions of racism... which Westerners usually confuse with the point.


:-)

please explain

Islam is a 24/7 thing. Islam is the government who tells you what to eat, when to eat it, what to wear when you are eating it and how to digest it. For women there are different ways of eating it, and those rules and regulations must be followed or there is a penalty by law ranging from beating to beheading.
We can't grasp this concept in the West because we have experienced freedom and make our own choices of eating. But 1.6 billion Muslims are subjected to 24/7 laws which they abide by. That doesn't allow for individualism but it does make those who are subjects of Islam (slaves) caught in a place where their behavior is predictable but just not by Western interpretation.
Get it?

Racism is a Western concept. We want to feel that everyone is equal and not discriminate. In Islam there is discrimination by Islamic law because non-muslims are considered inferior to Muslims. So bringing racism into dealing with Islamic principle doesn't come close to any real issues. But it's common for Westerners to do so. It's also common for Islams to use Western reaction as a means to strike against them, the same way Islam used our own planes to take down the WTC.

Understanding Islam from the point of view of Islam is very important to understanding this enemy and many Westerners don't know how.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by JJay55
 



Islam is a 24/7 thing.


as is Christianity, democracy – many things are 24/7. Not sure I understand what you mean by this


Islam is the government who tells you what to eat, when to eat it, what to wear when you are eating it and how to digest it.


If we put aside the burka for right now – can you explain why you think Islam controls every single aspect of an individuals life? I wonder – would you agree that to some extent the things we all do or don’t do – the things we agree are acceptable – are determined by the culture we live in?


Get it?


not yet


We want to feel that everyone is equal and not discriminate.


Confused here – do you see this as being right or wrong?


In Islam there is discrimination by Islamic law because non-muslims are considered inferior to Muslims.


you don’t think – especially in light of your entire argument – that we consider Muslims to be inferior?

it’s fairly obvious that you do


Understanding Islam from the point of view of Islam is very important to understanding this enemy and many Westerners don't know how.


well said (except for the enemy part)

[edit on 12/14/2009 by Spiramirabilis]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by JJay55
Islam is the government who tells you what to eat, when to eat it, what to wear when you are eating it and how to digest it. For women there are different ways of eating it, and those rules and regulations must be followed or there is a penalty by law ranging from beating to beheading.


Islam itself is a moral and spiritual entity. Following its rule is an external manifestation of an internal spiritual understanding. Its rules are not followed out of fear, but out of a love of God and understanding of the self. The same is (or should be) true of any religion. The same is true of vegetarianism for that matter.

If your argument is that non-secular governments are dangerous in that they enforce religious law in the same way that they enforce criminal law, then you problem, really, is that they follow a different form of government than your own, which is something you're going to have to get over. It's a big world and not everyone drives a Ford truck and shops at Wal-Mart.

Most Muslims are peaceful, loving people who will (and are told to by the Quran) feed you when you're hungry, clothe you when you're cold and care for you when you're ill. This is the dedication that so few secular cultures hold. But you don't hear about that because Fox News doesn't broadcast non-shock news. It actually takes time on your part to dig past the propaganda and find the truth. Unfortunately, the nature of much of Western culture is to be spoon fed information because it's too hard to find it on your own (and googling stuff doesn't count).

Read the Quran, if you're actually interested. Read books by Muslim authors (including the HUGE population of female Muslim authors). Take the time to understand them, rather than immediately assuming that their actions are for evil, brainwashed, slavish reasons. I think you'll find more in common with them than you think.

Or, you can just continue the standard tirade and continuous RABBLE, RABBLE, RABBLE of ignorance.





[edit on 14-12-2009 by SorensDespair]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by SorensDespair
 


Most are peaceful? Why would they elect terrorists to run their government (Hamas)? I'm not saying I'm just asking.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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here is replying to a bunch of different posts.



I don't know why it is so hard to grasp the fact there most definitely is a very powerful and dedicated segment of Islamic fundamentalists that wish to overcome and 'Islamify' the world. I also don't know why it is so hard to grasp the fact there most definitely are some Muslims who just want to live their life like everyone else.



It's not hard to grasp the fact that there are some out there who want to live their lives like everyone else, but unfortunately the majority that you see don't. they come here, they form their own communities, they don't wanna "assimilate". and when you say "some", it really is "some". as a lot of muslims that've been muslim since they were born were brought up in very muslim environments and its usually not something they just walk away from as the family pressure and status is usually what keeps them "in line".

and it's like. they call us infidels and yet they come to our country? IF YOU THINK WE'RE F**KING INFIDELS, THEN DON'T COME HERE!!!




That is exactly the point!!!! It is a segment of Islamic fundamentalists! And until certain individuals stop using language that implies that it’s ALL Muslims I will continue to call them bigots.

I do agree that we shop not let political correctness stop us from discussion serious issue... but we have to be very careful, when discussing them issue’s, that we do not fall into the comfortable trap of generalizing.


well unfortunately generalising is inevitable in this case, as most of them have given us - one way or another - a negativity.
whether it be coming on the news and calling women pieces of meat, or taking over Punchbowl and making it pretty unsafe if you were non-muslim and walking the streets there after dark. (Punchbowl is a suburb in Sydney that they're "taken over")

as someone said before, it may be the minority of fundamentalists, but the moderates just sit there and not do anything about it, therefore allowing it to happen. or something along those line





My question is how about all those muslim women living in the West wearing hijab and burqa?

Surely they are not opressed because they also have a choice like you and no one can stop them?


i'm not saying ALL women feel oppressed, some of them enjoy dominance cause all they have to do is sit at home and make babies. if people enjoy that, then it's up to them, but the concept of the hijab/burqa is oppression for women. as someone said, why should it be ok for the women to dress like ninjas whilst their husbands dress in normal "western" attire? if the women like it, fair enough, but some that don't unfortunately get forced to do it.





Well said.
Since you are seeing a non-muslim man are you also a possible victim of an honor killing? That has taken place in the States and is increasing in incident. Girls want to be Westernized because it's freedom and men insist on keeping control no matter what it takes.



from a fundamentalist point of view, I would probably be killed for my circumstances, but thankfully because of being in Australia, it's a benefit as if someone tried that here, they'd be arrested. Fortunately we're not under Sharia law yet.

Muckster says not to believe in everything you read in the paper, well I don't. in fact i rarely read the news, I've said how things are in my perspective, since i've grown up in a very muslim environment. you're free to take it or leave it.

I just wanted to share a quick point aswell, about this "peaceful" religion.
When my fiance was 13, he attended a public school in Greenacre, there was a LOT of middle eastern muslims in that school. He left school after the second year of high school because of the death threats and just ridiculous bullying he got for being a white non-muslim. He was actually chased home with knives.

chew that, digest it



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by SorensDespair
 


Most are peaceful? Why would they elect terrorists to run their government (Hamas)? I'm not saying I'm just asking.


Hamas themselves fought and drove out al-qaeda and they don't accept extremist ideoligy.

They are fighting to get freedom not 'Islamify' the whole world.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by traumst_du
 


If you didn't follow the religion you were born with than that doesn't mean the rest shouldn't either.

Everyone has a choice whether they live in East, West, North or South.

You might not have had a good experience with islam but the 1.5Bil muslims on this planet do like their faith.

And you can't really say that babies who are born into muslim families are brainwashed soo much that they become serial rapists, terrorist radicals when they grow up.






[edit on 14-12-2009 by merkava]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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why arent Muslims moving to mainland China and Japan in droves? are they?



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by marsvolta
why arent Muslims moving to mainland China and Japan in droves? are they?


There are plenty in China (Chinese Muslims).Muslims have been in China for hundreds of years.

There are a few in Japan but not alot though.Their immigration policy is very very very tight.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by marsvolta
 




Why would they have to move to China?

Muslim/Islam is a religion.... not a place?


There are estimated to be 20-30 million Muslims living in China.


People and their ignorance.... never cease to amaze me.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by merkava

Originally posted by marsvolta
why arent Muslims moving to mainland China and Japan in droves? are they?


There are plenty in China (Chinese Muslims).Muslims have been in China for hundreds of years.

There are a few in Japan but not alot though.Their immigration policy is very very very tight.


you mean the ones who leave near the borders of Kazakhstan? Uighurs? but they are a drop in an ocean. i bet you wouldnt see as many Muslims walking down the streets of Beijing as you would in Copenhagen.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by marsvolta
 


Why would they have to move to China?

Muslim/Islam is a religion.... not a place?


There are estimated to be 20-30 million Muslims living in China.


People and their ignorance.... never cease to amaze me.


well they dont have to. i was wondering why Western Europe, not China? i asked the question in the light of discussions about White Flight and whatnot, so "Muslim/Islam is a religion.... not a place?" makes no sense? where did you get the numbers?



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by marsvolta
 



The figure has been touted at anything up to 100m but generally estimates are 20-30m

en.wikipedia.org...


There are Muslims all over the word, in every country and of every colour.

Just like Christianity.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by marsvolta
i bet you wouldnt see as many Muslims walking down the streets of Beijing as you would in Copenhagen.



So the above statement is just wrong in so many ways.

There are more Muslims in China than there are people in the whole of Denmark

And Furthermore... Islam is the religion most practiced in China.

[edit on 14/12/09 by blupblup]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by marsvolta
i bet you wouldnt see as many Muslims walking down the streets of Beijing as you would in Copenhagen.



So the above statement is just wrong in so many ways.

There are more Muslims in China than there are people in the whole of Denmark


strange you have to jump into negative conclusions. what i meant to say was there arent many Muslims in China like in Denmark. purely that. the population of these two countries isnt proportionate.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by marsvolta
 



Fair enough, my mistake.
I thought you were saying that there were not many Muslims there, and that they didn't have any.

In fact Denmark has about a 2% Muslim population Here

And China's is about 1.7% i guess? working on there being 20m, and ias i said...could be many more...but without doing the math properly)


So I'd say they were pretty similar actually... in fact if truth be told... probably almost identical

[edit on 14/12/09 by blupblup]




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