The Islam Conspiracy

reply to post by JJay55

The burqa and the hijab have not been adopted by the fashion world for a reason.

Unless Muslim women are different than all other women, which is extremely unlikely, then the only reason most of them wear the horrible hijab and burqa is that they are forced to wear them.

I'm amazed that more men don't realize what you have stated here so clearly.

What happened in Islam is that the Christian Judeo concept of modest dress for women has been distorted into a partiarchial rule dictated by law. This law is against basic human rights of women, as are many other Sharia Laws.

don't be ridiculous

if you're really going to fashion fashion into your weapon of choice - then I suggest that you consider the only argument you really have that is legitimate is that you don't consider the burka to be fashionable

if you really want to have this fight then I challenge you to a duel - and I choose as my weapons high heels and pantyhose - both cruel and unusual – and both so obviously punishing

a crime against womankind if ever there was one

who do we hold accountable for these?

:-)

As a woman I am disgusted by Sharia Law.

LOLOLOL!!!!

because of the burka?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


All very well said, another star for you. Thanks, I really appreciate your reaching out for a legitimate conversation. I agree with most of what you said, which is pretty good for an internet forum on such a subject as this.

I agree, the term bigot is pretty much meaningless, like the term liar. We are all bigots and liars, it is just what we will not tolerate, and what we lie about that makes the difference.

I think it is very important to recognize that the people who we will need to worry about aren't going to be posting here, or talking about this stuff. I know those people, and the point of no return is quickly approaching. I think many other people also see this.

The NAZIs did not create the fear, or the hate, they capitalized on it. I think one of the most important books I have ever read is a little known memoir titled Defying Hitler by Sebastian Haffner which tells of the rise of Hitler in Germany from the perspective of a German citizen who understood what was happening. I think everybody on this planet should read this book. I have made the recommendation on ATS several times now on these types of forums, maybe even to you.

The reason I consistently bring up the burqa and the hijab is because I see this as the number one tool of the radicals. It is the symbol that marks the way. It is the means of control that allows Islam to take over areas, by preying on the women and the girls.

Eliminate the burqa and the hijab and you liberate the women, and take away the power of the radicals. Without the hijab, they can not identify those who will seek their freedom.

reply to post by poet1b

I think it is very important to recognize that the people who we will need to worry about aren't going to be posting here, or talking about this stuff. I know those people, and the point of no return is quickly approaching. I think many other people also see this.

then we really do understand each other

The NAZIs did not create the fear, or the hate, they capitalized on it.

fair enough

The reason I consistently bring up the burqa and the hijab is because I see this as the number one tool of the radicals. It is the symbol that marks the way. It is the means of control that allows Islam to take over areas, by preying on the women and the girls.

although I don't agree with you - completely - this is the first time I really understand your thinking on this subject

Eliminate the burqa and the hijab and you liberate the women, and take away the power of the radicals. Without the hijab, they can not identify those who will seek their freedom.

here's a present for you then - I can look at the burka and see both sides

there is more than one way of looking at it - it's not as simple as this entire argument has made it out to be - not from your angle or mine

I've said it before - women will change this - if that is what they really want

women are going to play a much bigger role in all of this than you might imagine poet1b - you needn't worry about that

I - like always - am going to stick to my guns and stay very close to my civil liberties and freedom of expression stance - you cannot ban the burka - for more than one reason

only time will tell how all this plays out - culture doesn't turn on a dime

and a star for you as well :-)

congratulations to both of us on our first civil exchange

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I am not sure what makes panty hose cruel, but the shoes women force their feet into, I agree, are cruel, but, men do not force women to wear those shoes. Women choose to wear those shoes.

I would say you know absolutely nothing about women if you are unaware of how obsessed so many women are with shoes. Personally I don't understand it, but even most tom boy types have some strange thing with shoes.

Most of us men could care less about the shoes. Sure, there are guys out there with foot fetishes, but they are a rarity.

Your attempt to claim that western men force women to wear uncomfortable shoes is really funny.

The fashion world is controlled by gay men and women. Most hetro men don't care. The fashion world caters to what women want, because they are willing to spend outrageous amounts of money on clothes.

reply to post by JJay55


Thanks, I appreciate the compliment. I worked hard on that one. I think you do a good job on the subject as well.

I think that is basically the way most men feel on this issue

Any comments on the shoe issue? Did I totally muck that up in a chauvinistic way?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I recognize the idea of banning the burqa and the hijab is a sticky issue, but to be honest, I don't think it is as bad as the whole hate crime concept.

If Muslim women are going to liberate themselves, we are going to have to help them. What you don't seem to understand is that the radicals are very determined people. They will do anything to get their way.

reply to post by poet1b

I am not sure what makes panty hose cruel...

you spend one single hot July day trying to make them face forward and stay up - you'll understand

I would say you know absolutely nothing about women if you are unaware of how obsessed so many women are with shoes.

:-) let's just say I have inside information

I do understand the obsession - I'm just not a no pain no gain kinda gal

I'm more of a no pain please and thank you kinda gal

Personally I don't understand it, but even most tom boy types have some strange thing with shoes.

they can be very pretty - and I wear them too

but I'm a walker - and they were not made for walking

as for the rest of the post...not even going to go there

let's just let sleeping dogs lie

:-)

reply to post by poet1b

So, is your multicultural experience include living in an area where Muslims have become the majority?

I lived in Newham London (does that count?)

Do you live in Europe?

Yes

Have you even bothered to do any research on the internet to see if what is claimed could be true?

Yes, lots... What i have discovered is that there is a dark element of Islam (There is also a dark element to Christianity and any other belief system and/or ideology)... But not on the scale described by many bigoted people and not on the scale described by groups like the BNP. We should not be afraid of discussing Islamic fanatics due to political correctness... But we should NEVER fall into the trap of assuming that ALL Muslims are fanatics... it’s simply not true and is nothing but fear mongering!

Exactly what reason do you have to doubt what this persons says except your own biased view.

For the reasons stated above and because i'm aware of the groups like the BNP spreading hate.

What if you are wrong?

If I’m wrong then it means that, according to the original post i was answering from Dock9, some very good friends of mine are planning to take over Britain and rape white women. I find this VERY hard to believe!!

This is what all racists and bigots do... They look for crimes committed by the group they dislike and then jump all over it shouting “LOOK I TOLD YOU THEY WHERE EVIL... NOW THEIR RAPING WHITE WOMEN"

They fail to mention that the same crimes are committed by other religions/communities/groups!!


Remember...

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

And as a final note... if i heard a Muslim person speaking half truths and lies against Christians (or any other group for that matter) then i would stand up to that Muslim as strongly as i stand up to anyone who is spreading hate.
But i certainly wouldn’t assume that all Muslims hate Christians!!!


[edit on 13-12-2009 by Muckster]

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Holy pantyhose batman, did you see that twist coming?

You are accusing us men of forcing you to wearing torturous shoes, and you now admit you have the same kind of desire for shoes.

I think I might have a right to be offended here.

Naw, that is just really funny.

Any more confessions?

Your first name wouldn't happen to be Michelle or Hillary now would it?

I'll pass on the hot July in pantyhose experiment. It is bad enough having to shave one's face regularly.

reply to post by Muckster

I lived in Newham London (does that count?)

I don't know. I have yet to make it to the section of the world yet.

When you go to the store, are a majority of the women in burqas or hijabs? If so then yes, if not then no.

Have you ever met any women who have been harassed for not wearing a hijab while going through Muslim dominated neighborhoods?

I agree, it certainly doesn't seem reasonable to think all Muslims are radicals or even a majority, but certainly enough to create the problems we are now seeing. Yes, Christianity has its dark sides, but at the current time, and for some time now, Christianity hasn't been creating the types of problems that Islam is currently creating.

There certainly are a considerable number of articles about the problems European nations are currently having, and Australia as well, with groups of Muslims raping non-muslim women, as well as reports of women being harassed for not wearing a hijab when they are not even Muslim. These are articles from respectable sources, not some hate group. Why would you doubt these reports? While there are indeed plenty of people with considerable prejudice willing to spread lies, most of these reports seem to be very legitimate.

reply to post by poet1b

You are accusing us men of forcing you to wearing torturous shoes, and you now admit you have the same kind of desire for shoes.

anything for a laugh poet1b

of course we have the choice :-)

(lets see if JJay55 can take a joke)

my first name is Gloria - why do you ask?

reply to post by poet1b


Holy crap you still going on about the burqa thing?

Alrite can you explain me one thing.

Why do muslim women wear burqa living in the West where they do HAVE A CHOiCE? No one can force them!

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis


my first name is Gloria - why do you ask?

Mine is Hallelujah, Nice to meet you

reply to post by blupblup


I'm sure I will be reprimanded for this - but:



[edit on 12/13/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by blupblup

 

I'm sure I will be reprijmanded for this - but:

I am unfamiliar with this term "reprijmanded" Gloria... it has an Middle-eastern ring to it though.

And back to you.

[edit on 13/12/09 by blupblup]

reply to post by blupblup



it's Scandinavian

edited - now

so - back on topic before we both get slapped

:-)

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by Muckster

 

Heh. The ol' "my best friend is black" so I understand multiculturalism.
Heh. That's a hoot.
Maybe if you try third person or understanding the principles and concepts from within Islam it would help you see clearer. Live under Sharia Law for a week and see how you like it.

Err... know actually my wife is Black... my best friend is white!

Think whatever you want but the fact remains that someone who has friends from other races/cultures/religions will have a slightly different perspective on the issue than someone who only knows people of the same race/culture/religion as themselves!

I would not like to live under Sharia law because I’m a Christian... I like the British law just fine thank you... point is... it’s only a minority of Muslims who want Sharia law in Britain. Most Muslims that I know are happily integrated into British life.

Besides... I could say to you... Try living in Afghanistan/Iraq for a week with soldiers bombing your friends and family... try living under a true invasion force...
Someone said it earlier... there are two sides to every coin.

The human race needs thoughtful, tolerant, open minded people to forward us.... not angry bigoted xenophobes!!!

Blessed are the peacemakers!

reply to post by poet1b

I don't know. I have yet to make it to the section of the world yet.

When you go to the store, are a majority of the women in burqas or hijabs? If so then yes, if not then no.

Have you ever met any women who have been harassed for not wearing a hijab while going through Muslim dominated neighborhoods?

I agree, it certainly doesn't seem reasonable to think all Muslims are radicals or even a majority, but certainly enough to create the problems we are now seeing. Yes, Christianity has its dark sides, but at the current time, and for some time now, Christianity hasn't been creating the types of problems that Islam is currently creating.

There certainly are a considerable number of articles about the problems European nations are currently having, and Australia as well, with groups of Muslims raping non-muslim women, as well as reports of women being harassed for not wearing a hijab when they are not even Muslim. These are articles from respectable sources, not some hate group. Why would you doubt these reports? While there are indeed plenty of people with considerable prejudice willing to spread lies, most of these reports seem to be very legitimate.

OK... when i lived in Newham the majority of woman in a store would be in burqas or hijabs... so i guess thats a yes.

Woman who did not wear burqas or hijabs where not harassed (This includes my mother, sisters and friends)

With regards to the case’s of reported rapes against non Muslim women. I am sure that there have been. The same as there have been White woman raped by black men who have been members of certain political movements... Same as black woman who were raped by member of racist groups... Muslim woman were often targeted and raped during the war in former Yugoslavia.

This says far more about MEN than it does about Islam... It is a very sad fact that men throughout history have used rape as a weapon against their enemies... Rape is a very serious issue and should not be used as political weight to reinforce an argument against a group of people when it is a fact that rape is used by ALL groups!

Originally posted by Muckster
The human race needs thoughtful, tolerant, open minded people to forward us.... not angry bigoted xenophobes!!!

Blessed are the peacemakers!

I'm not an angry bigoted xenophobe but I do recognize Sharia Law is creeping into non-muslim countries. And I will not tolerate it.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by poet1b

 

You are accusing us men of forcing you to wearing torturous shoes, and you now admit you have the same kind of desire for shoes.

anything for a laugh poet1b

of course we have the choice :-)

(lets see if JJay55 can take a joke)

my first name is Gloria - why do you ask?

Oh baby, those hot red stilettos are so worth it. I can flaunt what I have and enjoy male attention. I can walk the streets and enjoy catcalls. Yes, it's fun to be a woman in the West.