The Islam Conspiracy

This political correct nonsense is emboldening jihadists and other radical Islamists in America and throughout the world.



Don't buy into the stealth jihad propaganda. They want to take us over form the inside out by way of "multiculturalism". This documentary puts in proper perspective.

Islam: What the West Needs to Know

Google Video Link

Virtually every major Western leader has over the past several years expressed the view that Islam is a peaceful religion and that those who commit violence in its name are fanatics who misinterpret its tenets. This claim, while widely circulated, rarely attracts serious public examination. Relying primarily on Islam’s own sources, this documentary demonstrates that Islam is a violent, expansionary ideology that seeks the destruction or subjugation of other faiths, cultures, and systems of government.

www.whatthewestneedstoknow.com...

reply to post by poet1b

Second, even freedom of religion has its limits. What if your neighbor decided to take up the religion of the ancient Aztecs, and started sacrificing people in his backyard, should that be allowed under freedom of religion?

It appears your not actually reading my posts, I did cover this with the analogy if I were a nudist. But, I do understand your point. Obviously a Burqa is not the same as human sacrifice. Yes some aspects of religion is socially unacceptable. Again, I don't agree with sharia law as I feel that it violates human rights. Although I have seen plenty of posts on ATS that make it seem that some members would welcome it for the punishment of child molesters.

Forcing women to wear the burqa is supporting radical Islam, so yes, you do support radical Islam.

I have never forced any woman to wear a burqa.

Supporting the right of an Islamic organization to declare sovereignty over the community, and building fortresses is supporting radical Islam.

I still don't see the difference, between your expose on this commune and the one that I had offered up. But perhaps ill illustrate it another way because you obviously missed my point.

en.wikipedia.org...

Every step of the way you have defended the barbaric practices of Muslims

Again, you must be glossing over the posts I write, I do not support radical Islam. In fact I do think that radical Islam should be wiped out. But I can clearly see a difference between radical Islam and people freely expressing their faith. I am afraid it's you who doesn't seem to quite understand the difference.

Is it your claim that all the women who state that they were forced to dress in this barbaric manner were liars? Don't you have sympathy for the women who were ostracized from their families, facing death, for refusing to wear the restrictive clothing? Have you even bothered to look at the other side of the argument.

Can you show me an example of a woman in the US who faced death because she refused to wear a burqa? Now in Islamic countries, what they do is their business, not mine, while I believe in freedom of our US sovereignty, I also believe that other countries have sovereign rights as well and can rule themselves as they see fit. While Saudi Arabia might be oppressive to human rights, it's Saudi Arabia, not the US.

I find it interesting that once I pointed out Mennonite women's dress, you stopped complaining about the hijab and focused on the burqa.

reply to post by poet1b

Why are you against freedom of speech?

I am certainly not against freedom of speech, nor am I against freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is something I do support. It seems that you on the other hand don't want freedom of religion. By stating

I support liberty by demanding that Islamic women in the U.S. are free from the bondage of the veil, by pushing to have this barbaric form of dress banned. Allow these forms of dress for religious events and holidays, but other wise, no.

It seems that you do not support freedom of religion. Have you ever asked one of these women if they chose to wear a burqa? Of course not because,

You do know that women put bombs under those large veils and blow themselves up in public places don't you?

reply to post by 35Foxtrot


Please understand, that I have said repeatedly that I do acknowledge that there is extremist Muslims that do want to harm this country, and I do not support them. I do however find that propaganda is wrong and painting a whole religion because of a small number of extremists wrong as well. Extremism must be stopped, and there are portions of Islam that do want to hurt the west and they should be stopped. I hope I finally made this clear enough.

reply to post by Bigwhammy

They want to take us over form the inside out by way of "multiculturalism".

You do know that America was founded and grew because of multiculturalism right? We wouldn't have America without the Spanish or the French or the English or the Dutch. America is and always has been multicultural.

Wow, an expert who can distinguish extreme muslims and peaceful muslims. Like the Ft Hood shooter. Like Johnny Walker Lindh. Like so many others who were so peacefull and just snapped and went all radical and extreme. Yeah, there is such a clear distinction.
Crikey.

Muslim radicalization gains momentum in US: analysts

WASHINGTON — Long-feared by US intelligence, Muslim radicalization is gaining momentum in the United States, hit by a spate of recent cases featuring youths recruited and trained overseas for jihad, analysts say. The latest case -- five US nationals arrested in Pakistan Wednesday on suspicion of plotting an attack -- deepened concern that militant Islamist groups are successfully enlisting potential attackers inside the United States, much as they have in Britain. "We also as a community realize there is a problem," Nihad Awad told reporters in announcing that his organization, the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), had steered worried parents of the five to the FBI. He and others insisted the problem involved only a small minority of the Muslim community in the United States, but the implications remain disquieting because of how easily US nationals can move across borders or within the United States. Related article: FBI questions terror suspects

www.google.com...

reply to post by JJay55


And exactly how many peaceful Christians just snapped and became violent?

So I suppose The Army of God (warning graphic) is representative for all Christians?

Or is this the behavior of a small percentage of the greater whole?

Does Paul Hill represent all Christians?

Does Eric Rudolph represent all Christians?

Does Shelly Shannon represent all Christians?

Does Scott Roeder represent all Christians?

I suppose if we were to take your idea of events at face value then obviously all of Christianity must be a violent and deadly religion, obviously if we were to take these individuals as representative of the larger whole than all Christians must be violent murderers who will stop at nothing to push their beliefs on others.

But rationally we understand that these people don't represent the larger Christian community. We understand that as a whole Christianity is a peaceful religion, and acts committed by the ones above represent a small extremist element in the larger peaceful religion.

reply to post by whatukno


It would have just been less hassle to say bastard nation



Well, It is true

all this chit chattery about radical muslims cracks me up, didnt see all this chatter when the IRA was blowing crap out of england, or when the CIA was paying the same bunch of idiots to fight the USSR.

racists are so dumb not because they just dont understand it its because they are just uneducated

Next thing you know, some tool will say OMG im not i have a friend who is black LOL or summit dumb.

Fact is you just dont like Muslims get over it. and the funny part is they are fulll of xxxxx no matter what god you wanna pray too.

read history they are all scum. ALL of them brain wash the sheeple to do as they say but not as they do.

helps keep the plebs in place.. people aint the problem GOD is

people who have NO idea and blindly follow with 0 proof

show me one person or show me proof of GOD and his RULES because you got more chance of ALIENS than god.

Omg aliens terroists

reply to post by whatukno


You must not be paying attention to what I am writing.

Wearing the burqa or the Hijab has nothing to do with religion.

No, the burqa is not as bad as human sacrifice, but it is probably worse than nudity. Wearing one of those things in 90 degree heat with 90% humidity must be about as bad as getting stabbed in the heart.

Both the burqa and the Hijab are tools used by the radicals to implement control over the women.

You support the wearing of the burqa and the hijab, you support the radicals, whether or not you are capable of recognizing this.

You really don't know about the women who face death, and have actually been murdered for refusing to wear a hijab?

Then you are truly ignorant of the subject on which you are debating.

There have been many threads which discuss these occurrences here on ATS. For every honor killing, there are probably thousands and thousand of threats of murder, including many lessor punishments.

www.boston.com...

While many authorities say that Islamic religious tradition does not sanction honor killing, it has long been accepted in many Muslim societies all the same. Perpetrators are typically punished lightly, if at all. In 2003, Jordan's parliament overwhelmingly defeated a proposal to impose harsher penalties for honor killings; Islamists objected on the grounds that more severe punishment would violate religious traditions and damage Jordanian society. It is appalling that such lethally barbaric attitudes persist anywhere - all the more so now that the shame of honor killing has made its way here.

Legalized murder in the name of religion, but this is not in the Koran, neither is the requirement for the hijab or the burqa.

Here is search you can follow and educate yourself.

www.google.com...=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hl=en &source=hp&q=US+muslim+honor+killings&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=cbc2f75bf9d43a8f

www.youtube.com...

muslim girl Aqsa Parvez killed for not wearing hijab

www.sfgate.com.../g/a/2008/01/23/cstillwell.DTL

While fathers are commonly responsible for honor killings, they often act in concert with their daughters' brothers, uncles, and even female relatives. For infringements upon a Muslim daughter's "honor" constitute the greatest humiliation possible to the religious and tribal tradition from which many such immigrant families emerged. Acts that demand "punishment" include refusing to wear a hijab (or headscarf), having non-Muslim boyfriends or male friends of any origin, being sexually active, rejecting arranged marriages, aggressively seeking employment and education, and, more than anything else, attempting to assimilate into Western culture.

Read more: www.sfgate.com.../g/a/2008/01/23/cstillwell.DTL#ixzz0ZM0krTW8

Yo still want to pretend that supporting the burqa and the hijab is helping Muslim women, is defending their rights?

Or is supporting the Hijab supporting the extremist whose intent is never to adopt western culture, never embrace multiculturalism, but only use the concept to hide their true intentions behind.

You are the one who speaks from ignorance.

Odds are that almost every Muslim girl is forced to where the Hijab in public. Some support it, and some grow used to it, but it is a bit of submission forced into them.

reply to post by whatukno


Really pathetic, you had to go back over fifty years for three of those examples, and we are talking about abortion protestors who feel that abortion is murder, compared to fathers and brothers killing their daughters for not dressing tp religious requirements.

Once again, by such examples you prove how clueless you are to the reality.

reply to post by poet1b

You really don't know about the women who face death, and have actually been murdered for refusing to wear a hijab?

how many women are we talking about - do you have numbers?

There have been many threads which discuss these occurrences here on ATS. For every honor killing, there are probably thousands and thousand of threats of murder, including many lessor punishments.

probably?

reply to post by poet1b

and we are talking about abortion protestors who feel that abortion is murder

Let me get this straight, you're saying that because they are Christian, that their actions are justified as protesting. You're saying that it's not extremism to kill if your Christian.

But requiring the wearing of the burqa or hijab is extremist. I suppose that Mennonites and Amish are equally extreme in your view then.

compared to fathers and brothers killing their daughters for not dressing tp religious requirements.

I don't believe I have ever said that honor killing wasn't extreme. I think that you are not understanding the distinction here. Once again, because apparently you're not quite grasping the concept. I am against radical Islam. I am not against the free practice of a religion in the United States.

What Muslim countries do within their own boarders is a different issue than Islam. This goes to human rights. I am all for human rights, how to change a government's idea of what human rights are is a different problem altogether and has little to do with violent extremism.

reply to post by poet1b

Odds are that almost every Muslim girl is forced to where the Hijab in public. Some support it, and some grow used to it, but it is a bit of submission forced into them.

Odds are?

you keep talking about proving things - and here you're giving us odds?

are all Muslim girls forced to wear them in public - or not?

[edit on 12/11/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by poet1b

There have been many threads which discuss these occurrences here on ATS. For every honor killing, there are probably thousands and thousand of threats of murder, including many lessor punishments.
www.boston.com...

...While many authorities say that Islamic religious tradition does not sanction honor killing, it has long been accepted in many Muslim societies all the same...

it isn't sanctioned - but it does happen

these weren't sanctioned either - but it does happen:
www.vpc.org...
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.cnn.com...
www.wpbf.com...

all in the U.S.A. - except the one that happened in Iraq (BBC)

and I should add - there were hundreds of examples for me to choose from - all crimes committed by people who aren't Muslim

Legalized murder in the name of religion, but this is not in the Koran, neither is the requirement for the hijab or the burqa.

the emphasis is mine

so, if this is not in the Koran - what point are you trying to make?

that Muslims are inherently violent?

because nobody else would do this sort of thing?

what you're doing in this thread is essentially making the OPs case for him



[edit on 12/11/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

what you're doing in this thread is essentially making the OPs case for him

And an excellent job of it as well. poet1b is showing quite clearly the propaganda machine, how it works, and what tools it employs in order to perpetuate stereotypes, myth, lies, and exaggerations in order to demonize a religion for the actions of a few. Misunderstandings and differences in cultures aggravate the situation as well.

On the other side of the coin, it doesn't help when there are serious human rights abuses that do occur in Muslim countries. It doesn't help defeat the idea that all Muslims are radicalized when instances occur within our own nation that support the idea. These things do happen, and I haven't forgotten that fact. I am not so blind that I cannot see that there is an element of Islam that is extreme. Just as any religion has it's zealots. To understand that radical Islam is not representative of the entire religion is what I am trying to focus on here.

Thanks to poet1b I have been able to show conclusively that there is a conspiracy to paint the entire religion under the same brush. In fact this propaganda campaign works well and people have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

reply to post by whatukno

On the other side of the coin, it doesn't help when there are serious human rights abuses that do occur in Muslim countries. It doesn't help defeat the idea that all Muslims are radicalized when instances occur within our own nation that support the idea. These things do happen, and I haven't forgotten that fact. I am not so blind that I cannot see that there is an element of Islam that is extreme. Just as any religion has it's zealots. To understand that radical Islam is not representative of the entire religion is what I am trying to focus on here.

well - I'm going to beat this dead horse 'til I'm sure it's dead (I would never beat a horse)

that's us all over - people do these things - they always have

this little blame game is getting old - but unfortunately it's not going away

you should get extra points for resilience and stamina whatukno :-)

it's like arguing with the Red Queen

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

well - I'm going to beat this dead horse 'til I'm sure it's dead (I would never beat a horse)

that's us all over - people do these things - they always have

That being said, it must be also said that it's not the intention or purpose of Islam, and the reality is, most Muslims aren't violent.

this little blame game is getting old - but unfortunately it's not going away

It's easy to go with the crowd and not think for ones self. It's easy to ignore reality when propaganda creeps in. But what is hard is to stand up for something that you know is right. It's hard to defend something that has so much hate and intolerance stacked against it.

After months and months of reading posts claiming Islam is a religion based on violence, I got sick of it. I expect that from other sources, but not ATS. I expect that the posters at ATS are more intelligent and can see the reality from the fantasy.

[edit on 12/11/2009 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno

But what is hard is to stand up for something that you know is right. It's hard to defend something that has so much hate and intolerance stacked against it.

and so, thank you for this thread

not that you're finished :-)

After months and months of reading posts denouncing Islam as a religion based on violence, I got sick of it.

it's been on my mind lately as well - it's all made me feel very uneasy

I count on people doing the right thing when push comes to shove - perhaps naively

here's hoping I'm not wrong

reply to post by poet1b

Originally posted by poet1b
Actually, it is true. There aren't any pagans in any Muslim controlled nations, and they still persecute them like it was the middle ages.

There aren't any, but they still persecute them? WHATEVER COULD THIS MEAN?!

Originally posted by poet1b
They could start being Americans by letting their wives dress in blue jeans, just like most of the men already do, and wear comfortable clothes. Maybe buy a Harley, and take their woman out for a bike ride in the wind. Celebrate Christmas, it really isn't a religious holiday, and Christ is supposedly a part of the Islamic tradition. They could let their kids play with the neighborhood kids, let their daughters try out for cheerleading if that is what she wants, or be in a school play, and the same goes for their sons.

They could have barbecues, and invite non-muslim friends.

Decorate the house for Christmas and Halloween, put up a flag on Memorial day, the 4th of July, or Veterans day.

Make eye contact when appropriate, smile, and make small talk, and allow your wife and daughters to do the same. Learn to put up with boys talking to your daughters.

Stop blaming the west for the problems of the Middle East. If you think that western nations are the reason for all the problems in the world, then why live in a western nation.

So you want them to "let" them wear jeans, and get their clothes and hair be blown in the wind, invite their non-muslim friends over for barbecues, have extra holidays and "allow for eye contact", without being reprimanded?
All this time, I just thought you were just expressing your hatred for muslim people, when actually, it seems you have a thing for muslim women, and want a chance to ogle them better! (j/k)

Seriously, though, nothing wrong with celebrating days like July 4th or Thanksgiving or something, but why should they celebrate christmas and halloween? They certainly DO have to do with religion, and nothing much to do with Christ at all. I'm sure no one would be complaining about a day of free work, but other than that, there is no reason to "celebrate" it.

PS: Some people consider making eye-contact a sign of hostility.

Originally posted by poet1b
Is it your claim that all the women who state that they were forced to dress in this barbaric manner were liars?

I also have a problem with people who force others to do such things. However, that was never my point. However, are you saying that all women who state they were not forced to wear their dress, and instead wear it out of their own free will as a sign of their independence and modesty, and find the banning of it an imposition on their religious freedom liars?

[edit on 11-12-2009 by babloyi]

[edit on 11-12-2009 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi

I also have a problem with people who force others to do such things. However, that was never my point. However, are you saying that all women who state they were not forced to wear their dress, and instead wear it out of their own free will as a sign of their independence and modesty, and find the banning of it an imposition on their religious freedom liars?

I am all for freedom, I think that if a woman chooses to wear a burqa or a hijab should have the freedom to wear one in this country. The 1st Amendment is one of the greatest freedoms we have in this country. But it needs to be protected in it's entirety. I should be able to wear my robe when I see fit.

Muslim Population in the Military Raises Difficult Issues

Source:online.wsj.com...

Now here is something I think is interesting. People throughout this thread have been pointing to the Ft. Hood shooter as a problem. Well, maybe, they have a point. But maybe the problem isn't just Muslims in the military, perhaps it's religion in the military. After all, this country does define itself on the separation of church and state, so perhaps only atheists should be able to join the military.

Obviously this wouldn't work, people need to be able to have freedom of religion, there aren't enough atheists that are willing to fight for this country, and we need people that are able to translate Arabic.

So, what do you do? Obviously if your going to be fair to everyone, then all parties must subject their religious beliefs and churches to investigation. So now your investigating every religious house that any military member happens to be a member of. Doesn't that violate the rights of the other members of those congregations.

So what is the answer?

Originally posted by whatukno
Obviously this wouldn't work, people need to be able to have freedom of religion, there aren't enough atheists that are willing to fight for this country, and we need people that are able to translate Arabic.

So, what do you do? Obviously if your going to be fair to everyone, then all parties must subject their religious beliefs and churches to investigation. So now your investigating every religious house that any military member happens to be a member of. Doesn't that violate the rights of the other members of those congregations.

So what is the answer?

There are people who speak Arabic who are not muslims.
The problem is that Islam is above US law in the eyes of muslims. When muslims have to choose US law or Sharia Law they will pick Islam. Therefore it becomes an issue of immigration. If you can't obey the US law then you cannot be in our country. If you break the US law you cannot claim you did the crime under SHaria Law and should be excused. This is where US freedom of religion is misunderstood by muslims.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

how many women are we talking about - do you have numbers?

You need a number?

Hmm, 10% of muslim girls getting killed for refusing to wear a hijab is acceptable, but 10.1% is going over the line, and there will be big trouble.

Is that what you are looking for?