Cops Taze Unarmed Naked Man to Death for "Walking Toward Them'

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
reply to post by Lillydale

 

I think the real question is how many people have been saved because a police officer had a taser to use instead of a gun.

No. The premise you put forth is that tazers are less deadly than the static electricity built up by skating across a carpet. The real question presented by that premise is the one I asked. Either you have a number or your premise may not be all that sound. I appreciate that you feel the need to help but I actually knew exactly what question I was asking.

oh and uh p.s.

I suggest you learn a little more about meth. It does not block all pain.

[edit on 12/9/09 by Lillydale]

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Tasers do because people dont collapse from pain, they collapse because the .0021 miliamps stops your muscles from working for 7 - 30 sec at a time.

You do know that the human heart is a muscle right?

And I have never ever heard of someone dying from sliding across a carpet in socks - they may get a little carpet burn though. I have, however, heard of many deaths occurring from taser use.

reply to post by Kryties


You are correct, what your failing to include is that it takes 300 amps to stop the heart, not .0021 miliamps.. ya

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
reply to post by Kryties

 

You are correct, what your failing to include is that it takes 300 amps to stop the heart, not .0021 miliamps.. ya

sooo.......in the last 5 years.......

I think you know what it is I am going to ask.

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier


Now you have replied twice that I should look up some other stat to find the prove of your premise. It does not work that way. You claimed that static shock from carpets is more deadly than tazers. Can you back that up with any kind of numbers at all?

Originally posted by spec_ops_wannabe
reply to post by Rhetoric

 

You're being sarcastic, right?
I mean honestly, if you had to deal with some guy with mental health problems who had his clothes off and you were expected to bring him in?
I for one if I were in the same spot as that traffic cop, I'd use the taser immediately because I don't want to tackle a naked guy who is probably unstable and therefore unpredictable if he was having an "episode" like that.
Common sense pal, the guy was likely a threat to himself and the people around him, especially if he went so far as to get completely buttocks naked in public.

How about mace? Mace hasn't ever killed anyone and it's effective in getting a guy disoriented enough to take him down. Touching a naked guy might be "icky" but it certainly isn't an excuse to unnecessarily disable an unarmed man. Two cops should be able to subdue one unarmed guy. Using a taser in this situation is just a sign of laziness.

[edit on 11-12-2009 by andrewh7]

reply to post by Ha`la`tha


I am relating to if I am at work, alone at home, in the car alone. And no it does not take gender or nakedness, as I pointed out in my previous post, it would take a person approaching me with no intention of stopping, at that point I would be forced to consider that they may do me harm, and yes, I would taser them. I have had to do this twice on my job, I am not a cop, I am a night auditor in a hotel, you come around my counter and you are going to get tazed, and stay that way until the law arrives to take you away. It is my answer to not getting robbed/raped/f-ed with, and keep my arse safe. Do you really see something wrong with that?

Thanks for all the replys guys. ATS has gone to the pack. maynaybe I shoulda said I was an alien. Invisible man signing off.

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by Ha`la`tha

 

I am relating to if I am at work, alone at home, in the car alone. And no it does not take gender or nakedness, as I pointed out in my previous post, it would take a person approaching me with no intention of stopping, at that point I would be forced to consider that they may do me harm, and yes, I would taser them. I have had to do this twice on my job, I am not a cop, I am a night auditor in a hotel, you come around my counter and you are going to get tazed, and stay that way until the law arrives to take you away. It is my answer to not getting robbed/raped/f-ed with, and keep my arse safe. Do you really see something wrong with that?

I know I am certainly glad the tazer was invented to finally put a stop to all of those hotel auditor rapes.

How about you try relating it to what actually happened? The police knew he was not trying to rob or rape anyone because of his wife.

Let me ask you something. You claim your use of the tazer is just fine simply because it is your way of protecting yourself. I like to use a series of razor blades in a rotating handle that tears off skin like a human potato peeler. It protects me so that makes it ok and safe and legal to use right?

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
reply to post by Kryties

 

You are correct, what your failing to include is that it takes 300 amps to stop the heart, not .0021 miliamps.. ya

Talk about quoting misleading figures. (That's a polite term for lies.)

Even when the current is applied to the outside of the body you can kill a person with only 100 milliamps. But a current applied inside the body with electrodes, such as taser prongs, can kill with only 1 milliamp.

Generally, currents approaching 100 mA are lethal if they pass through sensitive portions of the body.
hypertextbook.com...

Also, as you previously admitted in this thread, the older police issue tasers average 2.1 milliamps. Some have been tested to be 3.5 milliamps.

However a much more powerful taser is now becoming popular with police.

Electrical Output:

ADVANCED TASER® M26:
3.6 mA or 0.0036 A (average rectified current)

The use of this model Taser is becoming increasingly common in the Police Force.
The output given is only an average. Tasers can be half as powerful again, sometimes delivering a shock of over 5mA underneath the victim's skin.

The TASER barbs completely penetrate the epidermis and dermis into the fatty tissue. delivering the shock subcutaneously. This is immensely more dangerous than a shock on the outside the skin such as that delivered by a defibrillator.

If the current has a direct pathway to the heart (e.g., via a cardiac catheter or other kind of electrode), a much lower current of less than 1 mA (AC or DC) can cause fibrillation. If not immediately treated by defibrillation, fibrillations are usually lethal because all the heart muscle cells move independently.

Above 200 mA, muscle contractions are so strong that the heart muscles cannot move at all.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Advanced Taser microprocessor is programmed to administer a 30-second Advanced Taser discharge -- so you don’t have to worry about how long to hold down the button.
www.streetdirectory.com...

So you can just press the trigger once on your Taser, and the victim gets up to 18,000 pulses of electricity. If these are delivered by electrodes penetrating the chest or head, each pulse is potentially fatal.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
The problem as I see it, is that you expect too much from police officers. Why should they risk injury to themselves attempting to subdue and restrain someone who has already shown themselves to be unable or unwilling to follow instructions.

No, becuase the expectation is a direct consequence of the education.

If we (the general public) were informed of the REALITY that the police's number one priority is protection of property & maintaining social order, NOT protecting the people, then I can imagine immense changes to the number of people willing to become police officers in the first place, among other things.

While the outcome is tragic. It doesnt mean the officer should have acted differently.

as a human facing a human, he SHOULD have acted differently, as a police officer, I agree that he did exactly what his superiors would expect of him.

A government thug is a government thug is a government thug. I sympathise with the police officers who DO care and DO want to protect the PEOPLE as their number one priority, because at the end of the day, they chose the wrong 'profession' (to use the term loosely).

-B.M

[edit on 19/12/09 by B.Morrison]

This thread is sick, some of the replies are sick, the whole #ing status quo is sick.

I hope this asshole ends up needing a pacemaker and it fails because his buddies tazered him under some circumstance.

Yeah, that was harsh, but it was no way near as harsh as what happened to the poor loon.

Some of you may already know this, but this was a big case in Canada where an RCMP officer tazered a polish immigrant at the airport. The testimony of one of the officers was absurd to the point of veiled guilt. He claimed that he felt his life was threatened by a stapler, so he resorted to using his tazer. I mean, that just reeks....

[edit on 19-12-2009 by Lucidliving]

I think tazer use is fair-enough in this circumstance. But why did the guy die? Either because the tazer was over-used (i.e. fired too much) or that tazers are dangerous and not suitable for law-enforcement.

Originally posted by B.Morrison

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
The problem as I see it, is that you expect too much from police officers. Why should they risk injury to themselves attempting to subdue and restrain someone who has already shown themselves to be unable or unwilling to follow instructions.

No, becuase the expectation is a direct consequence of the education.

If we (the general public) were informed of the REALITY that the police's number one priority is protection of property & maintaining social order, NOT protecting the people, then I can imagine immense changes to the number of people willing to become police officers in the first place, among other things.

While the outcome is tragic. It doesnt mean the officer should have acted differently.

as a human facing a human, he SHOULD have acted differently, as a police officer, I agree that he did exactly what his superiors would expect of him.

A government thug is a government thug is a government thug. I sympathise with the police officers who DO care and DO want to protect the PEOPLE as their number one priority, because at the end of the day, they chose the wrong 'profession' (to use the term loosely).

-B.M

[edit on 19/12/09 by B.Morrison]

Some of what I said here was plain wrong & I apologise. I didn't really know what I was talking about, I was about half on the money, but definitely got some things wrong in that statement. my bad!

-B.M

To me the taser has made these officers very lazy and unfortunatly people are dying due to said laziness.

It most certainly has. Have you seen some of the large and in charge officers around lately? Donuts much? No one appointed them Judge, Jury, and Executioner. They would do well to remember that...