Cops Taze Unarmed Naked Man to Death for "Walking Toward Them'

Originally posted by bad man incorporated

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by bad man incorporated

 

I wasn't there, I confess, were you? I did however, read the article in the OP. It's pretty clear to me. Oh I guess the cops had a good reason to taser him twice in the chest, afterall he COULD have had a gun or another TASER in his BUTT! Otherwise, perhaps they should have exersised their "training", took the guy down and cuffed him.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Wookiep]

I was in my own tazing situation, but apparently your reading is a bit limited.
I'm sure with a gun strapped to your waist, you would have opted to go hand to hand with a lunatic in fit?

Without knowing what the dude is capable of, knowing he was a lunatic and I can stop him from comin at me without killing him, I would have tazed his ass too. Especially if I was told the tazer wasn't deadly. Oh yeah. It isn't for most people.

Sorry, bad man, but posting that you have been tased gives nothing to this thread other than "wow I was tased and I deserved it"! Good for you! I was willingly pepper-sprayed once, what does that have to do with this?? Are you saying that no-one dies from taser shocks? Don't be naieve. Speaking of being naieve, the cops in question were naive and not properly trained it seems.

Are you sure the man was in a "fit"?? where does it say that?? From what I read, he was bi-polar and naked. He "walked" toward the officer.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Wookiep]

Originally posted by 2compelled
reply to post by bad man incorporated

 

Sure beats having your bones all busted up by protracting steel bars, eh?

I dont get your meaning here? What beats having your bones busted up? Death?
Dont think so.
I may be misunderstanding your statement but thats what it appears youre saying.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

Originally posted by Wookiep
That is true, but if an officer doesn't have sufficient training to protect his/her weapon then they don't belong in the business. Again, it's a dangerous business, but they *know* that going into it.

So if you agree that going hand to hand is a last resort due to the firearm where is the argument?


CT

When did I agree to that? I agree that there is a possibility that a "crazy lunatic" may try to grab an officers gun sure, a naked guy walking toward me would'nt warrant me to use a taser.....Last resort?? Hardly, I've seen many cops take down criminals and nut-jobs w/o using a taser. A naked guy (prolly confused due to lack of meds) "walking" toward someone hardly justifies 2 taser shocks to the chest. It's the other way around IMO, a taser should be used as a last resort before actually having to use their gun in a real sticky mess.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by Wookiep


IT gives everything to this thread. People are arguing that these cops killed the dude on purpose.
If cops are so highly trained, how come they had to taze me then, too? I was unarmed, I was ignoring commands AND (I had already hit one and about to smash another.. Is what I'm saying. They didn't want to get hurt, either. But if they are so cowardly etc, why didn't I get shot? Wouldn't that be a rational thing to do?

He may have been naked, but they did know he was nuts and it COULD take a while for the medicine to work. So in closing, what do you have to offer the thread other than cop bashing? Go bash the ones that taze 10 year old kids.

I don't like cops either, pompous etc arses. Probably why I ended up in more trouble. At least they didn't shoot me though.


[edit on 7-12-2009 by bad man incorporated]

Originally posted by bad man incorporated
reply to post by Wookiep

 

IT gives everything to this thread. People are arguing that these cops killed the dude on purpose.
If cops are so highly trained, how come they had to taze me then, too? I was unarmed, I was ignoring commands AND I had already hit one and about to smash another.. Is what I'm saying. They didn't want to get hurt, either.

He may have been naked, but they did know he was nuts and it COULD take a while for the medicine to work. So in closing, what do you have to offer the thread other than cop bashing? Go bash the ones that taze 10 year old kids.

I don't like cops either, pompous etc arses. Probably why I ended up in more trouble.

So you were conciously ignoring commands and wanted to "hit another" well yes, I'd say in your case you deserved it. Again, your case is not related to this one. I don't recall reading that the man in question did anything other than "walk". Being bi-polar doesn't make someone completely insane. Maybe more education about mental heath should be introduced to the police departments in the U.S.

I'm not "cop bashing". I'm lending *my* input here in saying that I don't think these cops were properly trained and if they were, then from my perspective they were total cowards and took the "tase him" route, when his death could have been easily avoided based on their supposed "training". I am also fed up with cops who make bad choices like this. I cannot speak about thousands of cops, but the trend of cops getting away with murder with or without intent is beyond rediculous.



[edit on 7-12-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by Rhetoric


Good!

We should pay the cops to wage war against nakedness. They should be given the power to go into your home and tazer you to death in your shower.

Down with nakedness!

Up with home electrocution execution!

I wish I knew who that cop was, because I would send him a giant box of donuts!

[edit on 7-12-2009 by downtown436]

Well wookie the training says tase before going hand to hand so your entire point is moot.

As I pointed out before going hand to hand while armed with a firearm is the absolute last resort. This is not my opinion. It is fact.

CT

Originally posted by Wookiep

Originally posted by bad man incorporated
reply to post by Wookiep

 

IT gives everything to this thread. People are arguing that these cops killed the dude on purpose.
If cops are so highly trained, how come they had to taze me then, too? I was unarmed, I was ignoring commands AND I had already hit one and about to smash another.. Is what I'm saying. They didn't want to get hurt, either.

He may have been naked, but they did know he was nuts and it COULD take a while for the medicine to work. So in closing, what do you have to offer the thread other than cop bashing? Go bash the ones that taze 10 year old kids.

I don't like cops either, pompous etc arses. Probably why I ended up in more trouble.

So you were conciously ignoring commands and wanted to "hit another" well yes, I'd say in your case you deserved it. Again, your case is not related to this one. I don't recall reading that the man in question did anything other than "walk". Being bi-polar doesn't make someone completely insane. Maybe more education about mental heath should be introduced to the police departments in the U.S.

I'm not "cop bashing". I'm lending *my* input here in saying that I don't think these cops were properly trained and if they were, then from my perspective they were total cowards and took the "tase him" route, when his death could have been easily avoided based on their supposed "training". I am also fed up with cops who make bad choices like this. I cannot speak for thousands of cops, but the tread of cops getting away with murder with or without intent is beyond rediculous.

I definitely don't disagree with you on most instances. I can't say, even with my martial arts training that I would want to hand to hand this guy.

I've been on the receiving end of the other alternative too...the restraints. Trust me, tazing is WAY more humane. It is really sad/unfortunate that the dude died. But he wasn't meant to die.

But the other way to hold him down was to physicaly tackle him and sit on his head. That s hit hurts for weeks. If I believed that tazing him wasn't going to kill him because the thing isn't for killing, (the gun is), then why wouldn't I use it, when talking/ordering didn't work.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
Well wookie the training says tase before going hand to hand so your entire point is moot.

As I pointed out before going hand to hand while armed with a firearm is the absolute last resort. This is not my opinion. It is fact.

CT

I can't argue with that because I trust you know more about official police protocol than I do. But perhaps this is why so many cops are getting away with murder. They are simply doing what they are told.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by downtown436

I wish I knew who that cop was, because I would send him a giant box of donuts!

Hurricane Chief of Police Lynn Excell and officer Ken Thompson arrived at the scene...

There you go, Hurricane Utah Police Chief Lynn Excell and Officer Ken Thompson (who fired the taser)

Send them a dozen donuts, made with chocolate Ex Lax

Originally posted by Wookiep


I can't argue with that because I trust you know more about official police protocol than I do. But perhaps this is why so many cops are getting away with murder. They are simply doing what they are told.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Wookiep]

Please watch your usage of the word "Murder".

There was no "Murder" here.

Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought), and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Demoncreeper]

Originally posted by Demoncreeper

Originally posted by Wookiep


I can't argue with that because I trust you know more about official police protocol than I do. But perhaps this is why so many cops are getting away with murder. They are simply doing what they are told.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Wookiep]

Please watch your usage of the word "Murder".

There was no "Murder" here.

Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought), and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Demoncreeper]

If those cops weren't naieve to the fact that tasers are deadly especially in the chest after 2 shocks...then that's exactly what I would call it.

The training itself is quite logical.

First and foremost is protect yourself at all costs. This means exactly what it says. Reasoning is that dead cop helps nobody.

If I have to choose between allowing you to get within striking distance or tasing you. Your getting a blast every day of the week. No question.

CT

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

Originally posted by Wookiep
That is true, but if an officer doesn't have sufficient training to protect his/her weapon then they don't belong in the business. Again, it's a dangerous business, but they *know* that going into it.

So if you agree that going hand to hand is a last resort due to the firearm where is the argument?

The officer used the resources available to him at the time so it didnt have to escalate to a physical takedown.

Again I reiterate, it is an absolute tragedy that the man died as a result of being tased, but that doesnt make the officers actions wrong. He should be accountable for his actions, but as the situation appeared to him at the time.

CT

Wow, so you'd love to see the precedent where no cop ever has to engage with anyone ever again - just whip out the taser and zap 'em - knowing full well that people CAN die from it, but with the disclaimer "Oh it's a tragedy, but what can we do.."

And you don't see anything wrong with the situation, one that for decades and decades was dealt with via means of sheer strength and tenacity.

Now it's all push buttons, sit back and if someone dies, meh, it's terrible, but he deserved it because (insert rant here)

Why not pepper spray? Why not backing away and trying to talk the person into compliance - no, he was mentally impaired, so use possible lethal force on him.

They mas aswell have run into him with their patrol car. No physical contact so the germs are kept away, the mad heinous deranged naked criminal cannot get their guns off them, and he'll be knocked down and incapacitated.

I just don't believe people can justify this.

They should give out free KY jelly with this police state agenda - it helps with the compliance when you band over all the way.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
The training itself is quite logical.

First and foremost is protect yourself at all costs. This means exactly what it says. Reasoning is that dead cop helps nobody.

If I have to choose between allowing you to get within striking distance or tasing you. Your getting a blast every day of the week. No question.

CT

Then you'd make a crap LEO, and one I'd never respect.

Especially when the person who dies from your inability to control a situation responsibly, has NOT even committed a crime.

jesus christ...

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
The training itself is quite logical.

First and foremost is protect yourself at all costs. This means exactly what it says. Reasoning is that dead cop helps nobody.

If I have to choose between allowing you to get within striking distance or tasing you. Your getting a blast every day of the week. No question.

CT

Then you'd make a crap LEO, and one I'd never respect.

Especially when the person who dies from your inability to control a situation responsibly, has NOT even committed a crime.

jesus christ...

Well "Conspiracy Theorist" would just be following *orders*. along with all the other cops in the nation apparently. See, in that logic, a cop is to protect himself so that he can protect his other cop friends so that they can ... protect others..yet they just tase em to death. Makes a lot of sense don't it? "To protect and serve yourself (as a cop) and other cops" should be the new motto.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Wookiep]

I am baffled by the police who kill and main people with tazers but less so than I am baffled by those who think this was legitimate.

This is suppose to be the land of the free while this does not mean you can break the law it should mean that if you do you are not going to be killed for it.

To the guy on page 1 who said something along the lines of 'if some naked guy was walking towards me I would use the tazer for sure' I say you sound a bit homophobic.

It is the Polices responsibility to protect and serve so if someone out there is having a mental break down and is naked too bad, time to do your JOB. This does not include HARMING the individual who needs your help.

And the Police wonder why people like them less and less.

Wow, so you'd love to see the precedent where no cop ever has to engage with anyone ever again - just whip out the taser and zap 'em - knowing full well that people CAN die from it, but with the disclaimer "Oh it's a tragedy, but what can we do.."

Im not advocating any precedence. Im saying that in this situation, the officer acted correctly and the result is a tragedy.

And you don't see anything wrong with the situation, one that for decades and decades was dealt with via means of sheer strength and tenacity.

Now it's all push buttons, sit back and if someone dies, meh, it's terrible, but he deserved it because (insert rant here)

Why not pepper spray? Why not backing away and trying to talk the person into compliance - no, he was mentally impaired, so use possible lethal force on him.

Every situation is different so your generalisation is not valid. No I dont see anything wrong with this situation, tragic outcome aside of course.

Why not pepper spray? My opinion is that it could easily disorient the man causing him to wander into traffic or any number of other possibilities.

As for backing away, how far? next street? next town? when should they engage, when their backs are to the ocean??

They mas aswell have run into him with their patrol car. No physical contact so the germs are kept away, the mad heinous deranged naked criminal cannot get their guns off them, and he'll be knocked down and incapacitated.

I just don't believe people can justify this.

They should give out free KY jelly with this police state agenda - it helps with the compliance when you band over all the way.

Now your just firing blindly. Tangents are fun but not very constructive.

CT

reply to post by Wookiep


Good point, and it really does seem that is the case these days.

It's the whole casualties of war thing on our own front door. 8[

Right or wrong, you (and everybody) are a potential threat to every LEO you encounter.

I have seen and heard of weapons being produced by the most unlikely of people. Elderly, disabled, children. Better to not let the guard down and get home safe than get knifed in the back by some old lady with dementia.

CT