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Global Warming Denial: An American Partisan Issue

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posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 12:41 AM
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As the contrived "debate" over global warming has heated up in the media, the only thing that has been made more clear to any thinking person is that the denial of global warming is a partisan political issue. I specifically single it out as American because the Americans are the loudest of the bunch, although it would be fair to include other neo-conservative parties outside of the states.

This whole "climate-gate" nonsense is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Even after the emails were thoroughly clarified by scientists and put into the proper context and perspective, neocons won't let it go. Instead of actually disputing the science, ad nausium they reiterate the same empty lines. There's no content to what they say, simply that "climate-gate" exists and some people are asking questions about the validity of climate change. Neocons have been "asking questions" about climate change since it was first proposed, nothing is different, they try so hard to make it sound as if something is.

Only in America are there partisan scientists which media corporations call upon for interviews and chose depending on what angle they want the story to take. All of them do it and they pay these "scientists" good money to keep to their slant. That's not to say all American scientists practice "partisan science", just the ones you regularly hear from in the media. This goes both ways too, it's not just neocons, there are certainly guys that play ball for the other team too which is equally egregious since science is by definition impartial to politics.

What's most telling though, is that debating climate-gate in America, you don't even have partisan scientists most of the time! You have politicians, either right or left, being interviewed on TV either in support of or denying climate change! Politicians! Uhh.. what? They basically concede to you up front that it's not about science, it's about politics, more specifically, it's about money. Money that neocons would rather spend on the important things, like, you know, war, oil, coal, etc, the things that give them the most kick backs. They actually have many Americans fooled into believing that they genuinely think climate scientists are involved in a massive conspiracy to collect carbon credits or some ridiculousness like that, and that it's not about appeasing the corporations that sign their cheques.

I have here a video which exemplifies my point superbly. Here you have BBC interviewing a real scientist/professor from the UK and former "communications director for the Republicans on the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works", his education is in political journalism.

Professor Andrew Watson methodically explains the actual context and implications of the paper and how the science is completely sound.

Marc Morano belittles the professor, pities him, attacks his character and does nothing to dispute the science. He simply states that climate-gate exists repeatedly and because it exists, climate science can't be trusted.

Marc Morano embodies global warming denial in every way. They shout their opposition and then come back and state because opposition exists, the debate is real, it's a giant loop of self delusion. It's like asserting unicorns exist, having other people pick that up, write papers citing you, and then writing a paper yourself about unicorns that begins with; "Many people know unicorns to be real...", citing those other people who have cited your original work.

That's all partisan "scientists" do, they pass the ball back and forth and try to get as much of the public as possible caught up in their game. It's the same tactic Fox News uses all the time. One thing is clear though, when you get out of partisan science and into the real scientific arena, man made global warming is an established fact, there is no debate except for among, mainly American, politicians and their congregations.



The part at the end made my day, because everyone watching this is thinking the exact same thing.




posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 01:00 AM
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LOL @ 4:45 of that vid.


More on Marc Morano here. Oh, looks like he was responsible for Swiftboat, whatever that was about.


+2 more 
posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
This whole "climate-gate" nonsense is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Even after the emails were thoroughly clarified by scientists and put into the proper context and perspective, neocons won't let it go.

Um, the emails were not clarified, they were dismissed. Certain participants (scientists) have resigned because of the scandal. If the emails are inconsequential, why aren't the participants hanging in there and fighting the good fight? It's because they've been shamed with their own words, and it's damaged the credibility of the MMGW crusade.

What is truly telling is how vicious and mean-spirited are the MMGW advocates, how very like attack dogs they become when their golden theories come into question. "How dare anyone question this sheet of numbers which has a high probability of being accurate! How dare they!"

So come off the high horse. Meteorologically speaking, we're neophytes. We don't know squat about the dynamics of climate and climate change. Anyone can see that Earth's climate is changing, perhaps self-correcting, but to build a political crusade of venom and hostility out of it is absurd.

We can't cause climate change, and we certainly can't stop it. We have no idea how to reverse climate change — the notion is in the realm of fantasy, not science.

So why are we making a political issue of it? Why must we sign treaties and levy taxes and legislate new laws that we will undoubtedly fail to enforce, all based on a collection of theories based on our limited and ultimately fallible observations?

It's about money, mark my words. It's about launching a "green economy," not about saving the planet (which we can't do, anyway).


PS: I'm not a "neocon," whatever that is.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 01:10 AM
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You are such an Ass Zombi. How dare you say those things to these people when tomorrow will be the sign in for a one world government.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Jesus, well said, you are my friend from here on out.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
As the contrived "debate" over global warming has heated up in the media, the only thing that has been made more clear to any thinking person is that the denial of global warming is a partisan political issue. I specifically single it out as American because the Americans are the loudest of the bunch, although it would be fair to include other neo-conservative parties outside of the states.


Do you mean to say that some of the same folks who are denialists today are the very same folks who were chanting "drill baby drill" just a year ago?

That's just silly, the two are toooootaly unrelated.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by Doc VelocityCertain participants (scientists) have resigned because of the scandal. If the emails are inconsequential, why aren't the participants hanging in there and fighting the good fight? It's because they've been shamed with their own words, and it's damaged the credibility of the MMGW crusade.


Oh, come on.

Phil Jones resigned as head of the CRU pending the results of an independent investigation. That's a standard move to ensure the transparency of an investigation - not an admission of guilt, as you seem to be taking it.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus

We can't cause climate change, and we certainly can't stop it. We have no idea how to reverse climate change — the notion is in the realm of fantasy, not science.


It's about money, mark my words. It's about launching a "green economy," not about saving the planet (which we can't do, anyway).

— Doc Velocity


Well Doc - first you indicated we are to inferior to understand our planets eco system... Then you say "We can't cause climate change"

Very contridictary and very sure of yourself being a neophite...

I would say man kind could induce climate change in ten minutes by launching a couple dozen nukes and to assume such indicates the extent of our effect on the climate is a very sure stance for less than a blip in history. Without pulling a trigger or lifting a single finger of intent, hundreds of species become extinct each week due to human dominance. Must be a kin to astronomical rise in cancer in this last century - must be a natural cycle.

I think you are onto it with your last sentence

Let me remind you

saving the planet

not really the point

and not the point of C&T

The Earth will be here either way







[edit on 7-12-2009 by Janky Red]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by vox2442
Phil Jones resigned as head of the CRU pending the results of an independent investigation. That's a standard move to ensure the transparency of an investigation - not an admission of guilt, as you seem to be taking it.

Well, don't start inferring what you think I inferred. That's an exponentially slippery slope.

If you've read the emails, seen how data was manipulated to color the results — and just be honest, it was manipulated data — then you know the MMGW crusade has a public relations disaster on its hands.

The majority of the people in the world do not believe in the MMGW crusade. That's a given. When you throw out a nasty little scandal such as Climategate, whether it's for real or not, then you're going to lose even more public support.

This is most important, the way the MMGW crusaders RESPONDED to Climategate was and is another downer, it's just exposing the seething emotion and anger beneath that very, very thin and fractured scientific crust.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 01:44 AM
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Let's keep arguing about the emails and global warming. Come on, let's argue about what is not important.

Seems like a lot of people here want all of us to forget what the carbon tax does to stop CO2 emissions.

What is it again that carbon trading is supposed to do?

Maybe I can start a thread saying something like.........

I'm on the fence, will carbon trading help Mother Earth?

Come on, all knowers of everything environmental, explain how carbon trading will reduce CO2 emissions.

It is another tax and control scheme, period.

edit to add-of course this is a partisan issue, those damn evil Repubs

oh wait Dems=Repubs Therefore both are evil, got it.

[edit on 12/7/2009 by endisnighe]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by ZombieOctopus
 


Well ZO

Heres my thing

I am not sure about the extent of human impact on the "Earth" - but I know if the Earth's ecosystem destabilizes enough someone's is getting F$#@$@ and I don't think it is the planet.

On the other hand I think with C&T most of the same people will get the shaft-

I believe this is certainly a partisan issue - fits the MO - conservatives do not want to take stock, no responsibility and affronted at the idea they might contribute to anything unsavory.

Shadows many things

- torture - "THAT AIN'T TORTURE"
- Healthcare - "Nobody in america goes without healthcare, there's emergency rooms for cancer"
- Iraq - "Bush Ain't a liar, it was just faulty informations"
- racism- "is a created by people who advocate against it"



On and on

same thing

Oppose and deny or justify

Unfortunately there seems to a disposition to attack things on all fronts, very goal oriented people really, no holes barred in this mother.

Liberals are the kind who stop and think too much, do not enjoy group think, why liberals will leave C&T even though it might help reduce pollution (other than CO2).
Liberals are like fricking cats -

I believe conservatives are protecting business 1st and opposing political rivalry
2nd. as far as I can tell the conservative rule book states you are always right and if you find one flaw you win the fight.

So now the idiot C&T people have really screwed mankind in general by giving Conservatives a stand to deny deny deny deny deny ANYTHING having to do with environmental concerns, or better put human preservation concerns.

I sense the motivation of both sides is protect/promote business...

But truly I think politics is a matter of reality - half of the people have good smelling poops and the other half takes extra showers.

Could it be that C&T is a scam and that humans do have impact on Earth systems.

Just cause you nicked a quarter doesn't mean that all the money in your pocket is ill gotten.


Just my rant - not directed at any of you






[edit on 7-12-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Janky Red]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by Janky Red
I would say man kind could induce climate change in ten minutes by launching a couple dozen nukes and to assume such indicates the extent of our effect on the climate is a very sure stance for less than a blip in history.

I think I see where you're going here. But, no, if we detonated the entire nuclear arsenal at Mankind's disposal, we wouldn't change the climate. We'd screw things up for a few years, probably kill off most land animals and vegetation, poison the oceans, and exterminate ourselves.

But the Earth will clean all that mess up, straighten out our worst efforts in a few years, and it's right back to a big blue-green ball of Life eventually. Maybe a few hundred years or a few thousand. But the Earth always wins.

We have this stilted perception of ourselves as "stewards" of the Earth. That expression always makes me grin. Stewards? All we do is screw things up, throw things out of balance.

Look, the insect population, which outnumbers us by trillions, has more of an influence on the climate than we ever will. They should be the "stewards" of the Earth. The nematode and trematode populations will survive the worst, hair-raising, 2012 doomsday scenarios with ease. I mean, the worms won't even flinch when the world comes to an end. They should be the "stewards" of the Earth.

Because they do it so very well!

STOP PRETENDING that Mankind with his jerry-rigged Science is going to "save the planet" from a perfectly natural phenomenon. It's laughable.

If the MMGW Crusaders want to rob me, tax me, steal my property, crush all my Liberties, then let 'em just be straightforward about it. Why torment me with this vaudeville routine about Mankind's GUILT for poisoning the atmosphere, and how we must SACRIFICE our beliefs and ways to restore continuity.

Does the MMGW Crusade not sound exactly like a primitive human superstition unfolding?

"Lo! We have been evil, we have desecrated the Earth, we must join hands now and humble ourselves, we must SACRIFICE the old ways, that the Earth will be reborn anew and shall be a fertile garden forever!"

Big bonfire and a goat on an altar, lot of fat, bald-headed meteorologists in grass skirts dancing and chanting in the firelight: COPENHAGEN, COPENHAGEN, COPENHAGEN, COPENHAGEN, COPENHAGEN....


— Doc Velocity





[edit on 12/7/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity


We can't cause climate change,
How do you know that?

and we certainly can't stop it.
We may no be able to stop natural climate change, but one induced by man could be halted.

We have no idea how to reverse climate change — the notion is in the realm of fantasy, not science.
No one is trying to stop Climates Change. They are trying to stop US effecting our planet.


So why are we making a political issue of it?
Because we are stupid.

Why must we sign treaties and levy taxes and legislate new laws that we will undoubtedly fail to enforce, all based on a collection of theories based on our limited and ultimately fallible observations?
Because we think regional and national politics and economics can solve global problems. Again, we are stupid.


It's about money, mark my words. It's about launching a "green economy," not about saving the planet (which we can't do, anyway).
Funny how many people have never had a problem with all the polluting and promoting, burning fossil fuels for money, the suppression of green technologies in order to make money, the failure to fund and investigate newer more cost effective ways to use Fossil fuels so as to make more money(look at the inefficiency in fuel consumption of the US Automakers for example, the surpression of nuclear technology by the first world on many nations due to "nuclear weapons fears" relegating them as fossil fuel dependent) but as soon as someone wants to be green, and make money, they are evil and in it for the money.
This is one of the most pathetic arguments that I have seen. We revolve around a capitalist ideology and you whine when "green" technologies only want to make money. I mean please! that is what ALL BUSINESS is about. Why would Green be any different?
Most Govt. around the world subsidies fossil fuels in transport and industry costs, my Govt. does this at a cost of 10 billions a year, our ETS will only reap 4.5 billion a year if it gets passed. That is not even half of what our Govt. forks out in subsidies for fossil fuel costs in transport and industry, if this was about undermining the pre-existing economy in order to herald in a "green economy" all they would do is pull the subsidies, this would increase transport and production costs destroying demand and paving the way for "Green Tech" to take over.

A recent report from the International Energy Agency estimated that fossil-fuel subsidies worldwide, largely in non-OECD countries, amount to around $300bn (£180bn) per year. It calculated that simply axing subsidies could cut global carbon emissions 12 per cent by 2050.
www.businessgreen.com...

You think this is Good.

Currently, the largest developing economies spend $310bn a year on fossil fuel subsidies, and many are reluctant to remove incentives that help keep fuel prices for their populations relatively low, while providing employment in carbon-intensive sectors such as coal mining.

However, recent research from the IEA has shown that the subsidies and resulting low fuel prices tend to only benefit rich elites and the emerging middle classes, while actually hampering development efforts by diverting money away from other projects.


Yep, the rich gettin' richer.
310 billion dollars a year spent by Govt.s around the world just to make Fossil fuels cheap.

Here is some interesting reading.
www.iea.org...



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:37 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Janky Red
I would say man kind could induce climate change in ten minutes by launching a couple dozen nukes and to assume such indicates the extent of our effect on the climate is a very sure stance for less than a blip in history.

I think I see where you're going here. But, no, if we detonated the entire nuclear arsenal at Mankind's disposal, we wouldn't change the climate. We'd screw things up for a few years, probably kill off most land animals and vegetation, poison the oceans, and exterminate ourselves.

But the Earth will clean all that mess up, straighten out our worst efforts in a few years, and it's right back to a big blue-green ball of Life eventually. Maybe a few hundred years or a few thousand. But the Earth always wins.

We have this stilted perception of ourselves as "stewards" of the Earth. That expression always makes me grin. Stewards? All we do is screw things up, throw things out of balance.

Look, the insect population, which outnumbers us by trillions, has more of an influence on the climate than we ever will. They should be the "stewards" of the Earth. The nematode and trematode populations will survive the worst, hair-raising, 2012 doomsday scenarios with ease. I mean, the worms won't even flinch when the world comes to an end. They should be the "stewards" of the Earth.

Because they do it so very well!

STOP PRETENDING that Mankind with his jerry-rigged Science is going to "save the planet" from a perfectly natural phenomenon. It's laughable.

If the MMGW Crusaders want to rob me, tax me, steal my property, crush all my Liberties, then let 'em just be straightforward about it. Why torment me with this vaudeville routine about Mankind's GUILT for poisoning the atmosphere, and how we must SACRIFICE our beliefs and ways to restore continuity.

Does the MMGW Crusade not sound exactly like a primitive human superstition unfolding?

"Lo! We have been evil, we have desecrated the Earth, we must join hands now and humble ourselves, we must SACRIFICE the old ways, that the Earth will be reborn anew and shall be a fertile garden forever!"

Big bonfire and a goat on an altar, lot of meteorologists in grass skirts dancing and chanting in the firelight: COPENHAGEN, COPENHAGEN, COPENHAGEN, COPENHAGEN, COPENHAGEN....


— Doc Velocity


Well strangely I agree and disagree -

I think the point of "saving the earth" is really to save this species.
I am not convinced that man has zero impact on the atmosphere and I am not convinced that man could prevent any catastrophic changes to existing currents, water levels or advancing ice for that matter.


If the MMGW Crusaders want to rob me, tax me, steal my property, crush all my Liberties, then let 'em just be straightforward about it


I wish they would be too

I also wish the opposition would, as your post reveals, be straight forward, back to ideology as the prime motivator or money.

As far as religion, this is the first case where I clearly see two emerging religions battling - I actually disagree and agree with portions of both sides.

One side "wants" a fricking utopia and the other side is categorically incapable of having any negative impact on its environment.

I would prefer that both sides would stick to the financial realm of the issue - that would be the only arena completely free of some form of ignorance. Both sides using raw information or science as a political implement sets up a dark age style precedent in a supposedly modern world.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:51 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

But the Earth will clean all that mess up, straighten out our worst efforts in a few years, and it's right back to a big blue-green ball of Life eventually. Maybe a few hundred years or a few thousand. But the Earth always wins.


What you are eluding to is earths homeostasis. It is not infinite. The earth is not infinite.

I would like you to consider this:
How do you know the earth will just fix things?
Some people do not believe that we have an effect.
Homeostasis is a system that ALL Life relies on in maintaining a stable and constant environment( Internal mostly when we look at all of living things but we are only living given the stability and constants of the earths ennironment).
Humanity and its activity is changing many of these constant factors that the Earths Homeostatic processes maintain.
We damming, redirecting or are changing water ways, we are altering massive tracts of terrain, its plant and animal life.
We are polluting the seas, changing the chemical constants of the soils and the seas with fertilizers and pesticides and herbicides.
We are altering the genetic structures of plants and now animals, that have been created in a stable and constant process of evolution.
We are pumping all sorts of gases into the atmosphere.
We are cutting and burning massive tracts of land annually.
Soil erosion and soil salinity is are ever increasing problem. As is desertification.
Regional weather system and precipitation is changing in regions that have had constant and stable Glacial Ice that is now melting and dissappearing.
Not to mention the same has happened in regions where deforestation has occurred, and where water systems have been altered.
We are creating new materials and products that the earth has never had to deal with before, ever. Plastics, and gases, chemicals that have never ever been apart of the earths natural cycle. We have changed what was stable and what was constant.

Homeostasis is not an Infinite system that is impervious to change or age.
In ALL organisms, it is faults, changes or imbalances in the Homeostatic process that causes many diseases and even Death.
Change, imbalance, and age in homeostatic systems increase pressure on any homeostatic system, this pressure effects efficiency to cope and ultimately we see Negative feed back that in LIVING THINGS will present as disease or illness or death.
So when you talk about Homeostasis, the Earth and life, look in the mirror.
You are an example of Homeostasis.
If you don't take care of yourself, you get Ill.
Your body gives you feed back. Like if you eat bad food, don't exercise and smoke, your negative feed back may be a heart attack due to the stress, pressure and inefficiency of your bodies ability to maintain a heathy stable and constant environment. Homeostasis.

If you think the Planet is any different, well sit back dude and ignore the chest pains because you think Homeostasis cures our bad habits.





[edit on 7/12/09 by atlasastro]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
This is one of the most pathetic arguments that I have seen. We revolve around a capitalist ideology and you whine when "green" technologies only want to make money. I mean please! that is what ALL BUSINESS is about. Why would Green be any different?

You have kicked the issue dead in the balls, my friend.

If we're so in love with Capitalism, why should we object to a Green Economy full of new entrepreneurial ventures? Plus you save the world. I mean, how cool is that?

Well, here's the deal. I'd love to see new "green" technologies come in and just take the world by storm, really catch everyone's imagination, and turn into a big, profitable Green Economy that benefitted the environment. All in the Capitalist tradition of sink or swim economics.

But the thing I can't abide is a bunch of trumped up and largely incomplete or half-baked climatological data used to incite FEAR and fearful propaganda"Who's gonna save th' polar bears, mommy?" — with a political agenda behind it, and the very clowns who are pushing the MMGW crusade are the ones who will profit.

Not the entrepreneurs and venture capitalists, but the political hacks. The legislators who are going to destroy national sovereignty, destroy personal liberties on down the line. Yeah, save the planet, make money, reduce all humanity to a socialist hive of workers.

Uh. No.

I don't want that. I don't want socialism, I don't want a nanny state, I don't want a a miniature reconnaissance drone fluttering and taking CO2 readings over my barbecue pit. The only manmade global condition is the condition of FEAR.

People in high places are attempting to frighten people in low places with fearful lies, in an effort to achieve some mass migration toward a predetermined goal.

This is not a secret. It's been going on right out in the open for decades. Longer than that. Since the beginning of Time.

— Doc Velocity









[edit on 12/7/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
What you are eluding to is earths homeostasis. It is not infinite. The earth is not infinite.

The Earth is infinite. The Earth will still be here when the last human has dreamed the last dream of infinity. For all intents and purposes, the Earth is infinite.

You will not be around to prove me wrong.



— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

If we're so in love with Capitalism, why should we object to a Green Economy full of new entrepreneurial ventures? Plus you save the world. I mean, how cool is that?

Well, here's the deal. I'd love to see new "green" technologies come in and just take the world by storm, really catch everyone's imagination, and turn into a big, profitable Green Economy that benefitted the environment. All in the Capitalist tradition of sink or swim economics.
You miss the point Doc. Fossil Fuels are subsidized massively to keep prices low, there is no sink or swim for them, the get aided. If these were removed Green would become more sought after, invested in and favoured by consumers. These subsidies make manufacturers lazy in innovation and research because the value of the fuels is artificially low, it reduces competition, it makes consumption increase at a cost in efficiency. The system we have now is insane Doc.

Who killed the electric Car Doc? That was a massive break through in Tech that could have revolutionized the automotive industry in the USA and the world. It had the first crack at mass producing an effective electric vehicle nearly a decade ago, but pulled the plug!


But the thing I can't abide is a bunch of trumped up and largely incomplete or half-baked climatological data used to incite FEAR and fearful propaganda"Who's gonna save th' polar bears, mommy?" — with a political agenda behind it, and the very clowns who are pushing the MMGW crusade are the ones who will profit.
Doc, you are using the "fear campaign in reverse", with fears of economic gloom and doom, taxes, scientific conspiracy of fraud. Why should I listen to that. We need a sensible middle ground for sure but there are sides to this debate that think fear mongering is the norm.


Not the entrepreneurs and venture capitalists, but the political hacks. The legislators who are going to destroy national sovereignty, destroy personal liberties on down the line. Yeah, save the planet, make money, reduce all humanity to a socialist hive of workers.
Entrepreneurs and venture capitalists are directed by policy or lobby to effect it themselves. They are not mutually exclusive from legislators. Your fear mongering regarding "socialist hives" is amusing. Currently our govt. are cheating the real value of oil to make us consume it. That is socializing the burden of the real cost on fossil fuels via policy, tax incentives, subsidies, direct cash injection or payments. THINK ABOUT THAT. That is Not capitalism. It artificially manipulates prices so as to help the HIVE keep running. The proper way to do this would be remove the aids and let the market true value dictate demand on products that incur the true value of fossil fuels in their manufacture and transportation etc.



I don't want that. I don't want socialism, I don't want a nanny state, I don't want a a miniature reconnaissance drone fluttering and taking CO2 readings over my barbecue pit. The only manmade global condition is the condition of FEAR.
You already have one. One that feeds your need for fossil fuels. One that is too scared to let the true market value dictate your actions. One that would rather protect jobs based around an inefficient, costly, environmentally detrimental system of fossil fuel consumption.


People in high places are attempting to frighten people in low places with fearful lies, in an effort to achieve some mass migration toward a predetermined goal.

This is not a secret. It's been going on right out in the open for decades. Longer than that. Since the beginning of Time.

— Doc Velocity
You seem very frightened Doc. Keep your chin up champ. Change is inevitable Doc. Whether it is a fear of what that change is, or a fear that we won't change in time. It is still inevitable.

Thank you for your though provoking reply.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 03:34 AM
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Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
As the contrived "debate" over global warming has heated up in the media, the only thing that has been made more clear to any thinking person is that the denial of global warming is a partisan political issue. I specifically single it out as American because the Americans are the loudest of the bunch, although it would be fair to include other neo-conservative parties outside of the states.



So being skeptical of a purported theory is "partisan", yet, blindly spewing forth rhetoric in support of it is somehow not?



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Do you mean to say that some of the same folks who are denialists today are the very same folks who were chanting "drill baby drill" just a year ago?

That's just silly, the two are toooootaly unrelated.


Neither was it related that we had Mr Griffin of the nationalist far right party "expose the global warming hoax"..... yep folks were more than happy to praise this man after his praise of the German attacks on london and his racists ideals...... no no no his partisanship had nothing to do with this global warming argument.

The far right disinformation informants are working overtime in the internet world.



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