Copenhagen climate summit: 1,200 limos, 140 private planes and caviar wedges

Major US Shift On Climate Change Policy

Adam Arnold, Sky News Online
America's Environmental Protection Agency has announced that greenhouse gases are a danger to human health.

The ruling will allow it to regulate emissions without the approval of the US Congress - a move designed to show President Obama is taking climate change seriously.

news.sky.com... 115495389?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15495389_US_Environment_Agency_Says_Greenhouse_Ga

WASHINGTON – Officials tell The Associated Press that the Environmental Protection Agency has concluded greenhouse gases are endangering people's health and must be regulated.

The EPA will announced its findings at a news conference Monday.

The announcement is timed to boost the Obama administration's arguments at an international climate conference — beginning this week — that the United States is taking actions to combat global warming, even though Congress has yet to act on climate legislation.

Under a Supreme Court ruling, the so-called endangerment finding is needed before the EPA can regulate carbon dioxide and five other greenhouse gases released from power plants, factories and automobiles under the federal Clean Air Act.

news.yahoo.com...

reply to post by bigyin


...and not party? Come now...no wonder you weren't invited...

Where do you suppose all these mondo concerned would be world savers are staying? Copenhagen version of the Ritz-carlton would be my guess...

nice little hotel

I'm told it's a nice little place.

Scientist’s Himalayan mission provides unwelcome proof: glaciers are dying
www.timesonline.co.uk...

This is from the UK Times Online and I think is pretty damning evidence in support of man made global warming. Check it out unless you have already made up your mind it isn't happening or even caused by man...then I can't help you.



[edit on 7-12-2009 by rusethorcain]

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Scientist’s Himalayan mission provides unwelcome proof: glaciers are dying
www.timesonline.co.uk...

This is from the UK Times Online and I think is pretty damning evidence in support of man made global warming. Check it out unless you have already made up your mind it isn't happening or even caused by man...then I can't help you.



[edit on 7-12-2009 by rusethorcain]

Well somebodies lying,

Himalayan Glaciers Seem to Be Growing
In the Western Himalayas, a group of some 230 glaciers are bucking the global warming trend.

news.discovery.com...

Perched on the soaring Karakoram mountains in the Western Himalayas, a group of some 230 glaciers are bucking the global warming trend. They're growing.

Throughout much of the Tibetan Plateau, high-altitude glaciers are dwindling in the face of rising temperatures. The situation is potentially dire for the hundreds of millions of people living in China, India and throughout southeast Asia who depend on the glaciers for their water supply.

But in the rugged western corner of the plateau, the story is different, according to a new study. Among legendary peaks of Mt. Everest like K2 and Nanga Parbat, glaciers with a penthouse view of the world are growing, and have been for almost three decades.

"These are the biggest mid-latitude glaciers in the world," John Shroder of the University of Nebraska-Omaha said. "And all of them are either holding still, or advancing."

The "proof of Global Warming" is irrelevant you stupid fools. Stop arguing about this, nobody gives a damn. These leaders are not meeting to discuss how best to save the damn planet, they're meeting to discuss how best to enslave us with taxes and regulations.

You morons. Stop coming in here and acting like children, preaching to the choir like everyone in here is just 'fraid of da gubmint and fancy scientistz. Any human being with an ounce of damn perception would realize what this is, and apparently the lot spewing piles of crap in this thread are not very perceptive.

What the hell would change if we allowed a global bureaucracy to "police" and regulate the world's population? The glaciers going to grow back the next day? Nope. They're not. Shame that. Oh, well that sucks... let's loosen up the leashes a little bit and let people breathe... Oh, you won't loosen the leash..? Please... ? Okay.. I'll go back to my serfdom.



[edit on 7-12-2009 by SyphonX]

Originally posted by DwaynetheSpecious


There are differences in biofuel... and one of them is how the actual fuel is made, not only how it threats the atmosphere. The bio-fuel used by the limos are a product of hay - its called grass bio-fuel - read more here: www.reap-canada.com...

Instead of setting me up to be some sort of liar then look at this page:
www.co2neutral-hotels.com...

Currently 5 CO2 neutral hotels are located in Copenhagen alone! Some of them have even been neutral for quite some time.

I'm not trying to say that this event will be neutral, because that thought alone would be a #ing stupid thought.

The only thing I'm trying to say is that many people have done an effort to try and minimize the CO2 footprint. Respect for that.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by DwaynetheSpecious]

Nobody is suggesting you are a liar. I'm slightly offended at the suggestion, but hey I'll deal with it.

You do however appear to already be convinced of your arguements. So nothing anyone says will make much difference to your beliefs.

I'm sticking to my position which is that further research needs to be done on whether bio fuels are more green than fossil fuels. And I'd prefer independent research, a rare commodity these days.

I'm actually in favour of using bio fuels and other forms of fuel, not because of carbon footprint but because they are renewable and oil is a finite resource, plus its damned expensive. Not to mention that my VW bus runs on veggie oil

Regarding CO2 neutral hotels, thank you very much for your link from which I discovered that the only reason these hotels can claim to be carbon neutral is because they have purchased CO2 Quotas to offset the energy they are using. The CO2 quota system is regarded by many as not only useless but may in fact be a scam. Criminals are selling fake quotas.

reply to post by bigyin


No all the neutral are from bought up quotas, but some of it is. I can only say that they are trying to make a difference... which is better than actually doing nothing at all.

I understand your concern about the "buy CO2 quotas" and I also think this system is at no use.

I am sorry if I have offended you in any way, I just felt like I was liar, but I see now that this wasn't your intend. I hope we still understand each other.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by DwaynetheSpecious]

Ah yes, the CO2 quota "credit" system. Where you can buy credits and do whatever you want. They'll just "offset" the carbon footprint in an already underdeveloped area (woefully defenseless and ignorant) and tell them they can't flush their johns for 30 days. Climate "neutral", everyone's happy!

Ah, saving the world is so bitter sweet.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


In the Western Himalayas, a group of some 230 glaciers are bucking the global warming trend.

...the global warming TREND

and you might also like this I found on your link
WILDERNESS, CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE END OF NATURE
news.discovery.com...

Thanks for much for the back up


[edit on 7-12-2009 by rusethorcain]

I wanted to say something about melting glaciers that bothers me.

The town where I live, and have lived for 30 years is on the edge of the sea.

Years ago I remember the town centre quite often flooded by high tides. However this has not happened for a very long time. I would say it must be 10 or 15 years since it last flooded.

There have been no changes to the foreshore, no walls or defences. Its just the same.

Now if we are to belive that entire glaciers are melting in the space of a few years one would expect the sea levels to rise dramatically, and yet from my own experience....... no scientist involved ...... the sea level has not only NOT risen it has actually gone down.

Please can somebody explain for me ?


I also remember being told 30 or 40 years ago that sea levels were rising and we were all doomed. Again this has not come to pass. So where is all this melting ice water going ?

Originally posted by bigyin

I also remember being told 30 or 40 years ago that sea levels were rising and we were all doomed. Again this has not come to pass. So where is all this melting ice water going ?

When you are filling a glass to the top with a slow drip there will be quite some time before the contents spills over because there is a tendency to keep within the top rim of the glass even as a mound will swell...before anything spills out.

When it does happen...it will be sudden and irreversible.
Changing our course is like trying to halt an ocean liner and turn it around.

I'm not sure if this has already been covered, but in Denmark, a Limo is just a family saloon/executive car. Usually Mercedes E-class. Most of the 'Limos' for the conference are just regular taxis, so the impact on the environment will likely be minimal.

I have a bunch of friends at Copenhagen right now.

And they aren't rich or stuck up. They're actually really intelligent and care about the planet.

So you know what? Bah Humbug.

People have forgotten the old axiom that to get to the truth "follow the money".

GW is a Celebrity cause. It will make many members of the elite even more fabulously wealthy than they are right now. They have created a business knowing they control the legislation that will then make them fortunes. It is that simple IMO.

How do you control science? Make their funding reliant on them making the evidence fit the theory.

This summit is crawling with people who likely have millions if not billions at stake here.

It is simple really. To put more money in their pocket, it must be removed from the pocket of someone else. They could steal it but why do that when they can legally take it through Cap and Trade?

Even the people who agree with all this are victims. Their being used as tools to line these peoples pockets and are doing so willingly, not realizing their pockets will be picked and then they will be thrown out with the trash. It's like luring in the ducks with a duck call and then blowing their heads off with a shotgun.

As I'm writing this I'm surfing through the news and I've already seen the number of Limo's and Private Jets scrolling across the bottom of the TV screen.

To those of you who support this nonsense, ask yourself some questions here.

Why the summit? The summit is producing huge amounts of CO2 for no reason. Anything that can be done at this summit could be done via computer conferencing or over the phone. It would seem the only reason for the summit is an excuse to fly around in private jets, party, show off in the latest fashions while getting in and out of Limo's. It is just a party, nothing more.

Or, is it that the things they are really discussing would be so disgusting to us that they have to whisper in each others ears and can't trust the internet or the phones? Could that be it? They have things to hide?

Right now they are discussing things that could eliminate the Middle Class which is their true goal here IMO. When you are addicted to power and money the idea of a two class society is the ultimate goal. How do you do that? You find as many ways as possible to stop ordinary people from becoming successful. Place as many obstacles in their way as you can. In this case, place a mountain right in the middle of the only road. Only the wealthiest, biggest businesses, ran by their friends, will have the resources to manufacture or produce products. That eliminates the risk that you or I might someday make it big. It also destroys those who already have by burying them in regulation and taxes. It also raises the costs of all goods and energy making sure the working class can never save enough to dig out of poverty. The end game is of course a two class system much like the former Soviet Union.

This is not about the environment and never has been. Obama or any of the others at this conference could give crap less about the environment beyond the landscaping in their own yards. Obama is creating the fortune he will be handed when he leaves office. He is working on his estate on Martha's Vineyard. He is insuring his 100 million a year for attending one ten minute Board Meeting a year after he leaves the White House. There are plenty of way the powerful can take bribes without breaking the law.

Of course this also takes attention off the Health Care catastrophe so it serves that purpose as well. Obama knows Cap and Trade is dead on arrival, so is this just misdirection?

reply to post by AllexxisF1

Once again instead of talking about the serious issue of global climate change and how we should proceed, people are focused on something as stupid as limousines and caviar.

That is a very ignorant statement.

Can't you see the contradiction in your own post?

The climate is the problem. We are told that CO2 is the problem. What do this lot do? Go and spew 41,000 tons of the stuff. Things can't be as bad as suggested, can they?

Then you get leaked e-mails from East Anglia University that clearly show the data is being tampered, and that data is being deleted contrary to the law (FYI - any data that is subject to FOIA can not be deleted. To do so is a criminal offence) so that the lies can't be exposed.

MMGW/MMCC - it's RUBBISH.

I have nothing against Environmentalists. You should have more respect for yourselves though and stop letting these phonies use you for tools. The people at this Summit don't care about the environment. They are after power and money. You can't live like they do and pretend to care. Of course they know their groupies are blind to it so they get away with it.

reply to post by rusethorcain


Where is the news that we are leaving an ice age, and to do so maens that by definition, ice must stop being ice and turn to water?

This whole debate is crazy talk - it is turning perfectly normal events into something extraordinary.

Please - stop being a sheep, and think for yourself.

(I know this looks like an attack - it is not). I'm really getting quite concerned at how easily my fellow humans are duped by professional liars - POLITICIANS.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by mirageofdeceit]

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
(FYI - any data that is subject to FOIA can not be deleted. To do so is a criminal offence)

If it was my emails I wouldn't give a flying f*ck about any laws. My personal emails are for my eyes only and I wouldn't hesitate a second to delete everything rather than handing them over to some asshole. It's ridiculous that somebody tried to FOIA their personal communications. How the hell did that happen?

What goes for raw data (the only thing that should matter here). AFAIK they haven't deleted any and over 95% of it has been in public domain for years..

[edit on 7-12-2009 by rhinoceros]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Playing what?

Why is climate change occuring on almost every planet not only earth?

Wow, ignorance....

"Climate Change" is a term given to the process of which there are excess amounts of greenhouse gases being produced which in turn increase Earth's natural greenhouse effect which warms Earth. However, becaues Earth has systems that seem to try to balance the climate, you wont get instant warming, you will first get very abnormal weather conditions in abnormal places. The long term effect of those abnormal weather conditions is a warming trend.

To say every planet is going through "Climate Change" as we know it, as defined above, is a false statement and very scientificaly ignorant. Although "Climate Change" is a noun (name) AND it is a verb (action), doesn't mean you can mix the two in an argument.

The Sun has always been, and will always be the prime factor for temperature changes for every planet. However, "Climate Change" was not discovered or "invented" because of observed temperature changes. Someone didn't go outside one day and say "hey its getting hot, lets make a reason other than the Sun to explain it". "Climate Change" has always been a major concern for scientists after the discovery of how Earth's atmopshere keeps Earth warm.

When looking at the moon, with no atmosphere, and measuring the temperatures in the day and night cycles, you will see it is super cold at night, and super hot in the day. So we know Earths atmopshere keeps us warm, and protects us from warmth at the same time. Earth already has greenhouse gases, they block a certain wavelength of light from the Sun. They also alow a certain wavelength of light to pass, and when the light bounces off of objects on Earth it changes to another wavelength and tries to escape the same way it arrived. However greenhouse gases don't let that changed wavelength to escape, and it traps heat.

If Earth didn't have greehouse gases, Earth would freeze. If Earth has too much greenhouse gases in it's atmosphere, it will warm up and overheat. All this is scientificaly proven.

Humans are creating overwhelming amounts of CO2 (greenhouse gases) so there is only one thing that can happen (global warming), but first we would experiance abnormal weather conditions (climate change). Hence the two terms. Other planets are not creating extra unnatural CO2 (as far as we know), so "Climate Change" is NOT, I repeat, NOT, happening on other planets, only Earth. Although temperature changes may be happening on other planets caused by the Sun, it is NOT "Climate Change" as we know it, as defined above.

So Earth can be warming by the Sun, AND Climate Change. Both would be an issue, but we can only really effect one.





[edit on 7-12-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by rusethorcain


When you are filling a glass to the top with a slow drip there will be quite some time before the contents spills over because there is a tendency to keep within the top rim of the glass even as a mound will swell...before anything spills out.

When it does happen...it will be sudden and irreversible.
Changing our course is like trying to halt an ocean liner and turn it around.

Neither you nor anyone else have any evidence whatsoever of this alarmist rubbish.

Please, stop before you embaress yourself further.

I find it hilarious that a lot of people have recently joined (not all new members are doing this, by any means) and now they are busy posting and writing threads to "educate" us, like we haven't been discussing this for years already.

You'd think that a group who were trying to flood a particular site would be able to use something as simple as a search function.