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before ya'll bash our soldiers

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posted on Dec, 6 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


You are a coward......my friend..

What have you done to get the criminals out of D.C..??


Oh that's right....YOU put them in there....and kept them safe..

Thanks for being a TRUE PATRIOT...




posted on Dec, 6 2009 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by rainfall
 



You are a coward......my friend..

What have you done to get the criminals out of D.C..??


Oh that's right....YOU put them in there....and kept them safe..


Took you that long just to think of the above.


You have to be faster, take your medication and give it another try.

Who are the criminals you are referring to?



posted on Dec, 6 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by rainfall
reply to post by jam321
 


You are a coward......my friend..

What have you done to get the criminals out of D.C..??


What have you done?

That's right nothing.
Except all this lip flapping BS on a conspiracy site.



Oh that's right....YOU put them in there....


Let me guess you haven't served or don't vote?

It seems to me that the only people who have a real right to Bitch are the people who have either served or try to make their vote count.


[edit on 7-12-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by LadySkadi
@vermonster
@rainfall
@level x

A question to the 3 of you...
Do you see any difference between military personnel who are serving in combat roles and those who are not? Is there any difference between those who are serving overseas (in combat zones) those who are overseas (non-combat zone) and those who are stateside? Are there levels to your distaste for the military or is it all lumped together in one big mass?


I believe our country only needs personnel within 100 miles of our NATURAL borders... I have a problem with America setting up shop 10 thousands miles around the globe as if they are overlords.

So, to answer your question, murderous combat roles need to stay out of other countries. We all know it causes international tension and the reasons parking there is for a global takeover.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Level X]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 12:10 AM
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just rejoining the convo, my pfc had a flat tire and i was helping him change it in case someone thinks i had given up the debate...

i will tell you what i have done to oust the government criminals.

i have written my congressman

i have voted based upon values and standpoints, to the best of my abilities, not party lines.

i listen to talk radio and i read alternative news ans well as mainstream so that i can draw my own conclusions based upon my own beliefs, and i institute those beliefs in daily life.

i am raising my son to believe in what is right, and to stand up for what he believes in, in the hopes that someday he too can make a stand and fight for others around him.

i continue to serve in the military, even though i have already reached the point where i would not join again if i had a chance. the difference being that i have made a personal conviction that i would do a job and do it right, and that i am not gonna just up and quit because it is difficult.

i am one of those people that have come home and lost thier marriage. i am not certain that if i had not been deployed for a total of 26 months out of the first 4 years of our marriage that it still would have worked. if we were meant to be, then we would still be. I am not falling into addiction, and in fact it says nothing about the military for a soldier to do so, just a failure on the soldier. We are taught to trust each other, and in doing so that soldier can get help.

You guys want to make it seem as if we soldiers are over there shooting everything in sight and not taking a care in the world about who or what we are killing. to be honest, if i were to set and ponder over everyone i have shot at then i would be a mess. instead, you have to think about differently. if you point a weapon at me, i am going to shoot you. this is not a difficult concept.

i have not personally witnessed anyone shooting random undeserving civilians. the closest i would say is a vehicle got lit by a 50 cal for not stopping at a check point. there is no way to know if there is a bomb in that car, and if you tell them to stop and they do not, then are you suggesting we just say "ok never mind" and have some crazy in a car full of explosives take out our entire crew?

you can have all the disagreements with the nature of the war that you want to. you can have all the arguments against the validity of what we are doing. civilians are not the only ones making these arguments. i hear it every day from inside the military. there is no rule against complaining about what you are doing, so long as you can get the job done at the same time.

despite what you think, there are people being helped over there. is it good in the long run? are we doing the best thing? i dont know. i do know that in the process of what we are doing, people are being helped at least on an individual scale, just as i am sure some are being hurt.

this once again boils down to personal conviction and character. If a draft happens, you have to decide if you are going to answer the call and do your duty, or are you going to run from your sovergn land and cower in canada or mexico?

the difficulties that many young (and yes stupid) people have in the military are no less real and the sacrifices they make are no less great. These kids are losing eyes legs arms and lives over there, and they are not doing it just to make the government money, and they would gladly lay down the same in the case that our own soil was invaded.... would you? if our borders were invaded would you THEN take up arms and defend your home land? i would venture to say that you would find some excuse as to why america deserves it and anyone who fights is just trying to sustain the criminals and you would post it from your wii as you flee to safe lands...

again, please, do NOT join the military, if the enemy didnt kill you, i would not be surprised if an "insurgent" caught you off gaurd and ended it for you during one of those long lonely night patrols...



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by Level X
 



I believe our country only needs personnel within 100 miles of our NATURAL borders.


Sounds good


murderous combat roles need to stay out of other countries.


Do you have proof of murderous combat roles?


We all know it causes international tension and the reasons parking there is for a global takeover.


Do you really believe the US(pop 300Million) can pull off a global takeover(5.5 billion plus)?


[edit on 7-12-2009 by jam321]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Level X
 



"GREED INCORPORATED"?


The greed incorporated you work for, the greed incorporated you buy from, the greed incorporated you depend on.

Your part of the same picture.

you make me laugh with your nonsense



Another Ultra Patriot G.I. Joe on ah --- "We have the right to dominate the world because my Sargeant with a 8th grade education says so..."


What next?? The military heads offering themselves for slaughter so China can supply Toy R Us.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by Level X

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Level X
 



"GREED INCORPORATED"?


The greed incorporated you work for, the greed incorporated you buy from, the greed incorporated you depend on.

Your part of the same picture.

you make me laugh with your nonsense



Another Ultra Patriot G.I. Joe on ah --- "We have the right to dominate the world because my Sargeant with a 8th grade education says so..."


What next?? The military heads offering themselves for slaughter so China can supply Toy R Us.


i would wager that you would never be able to cut it in this mans military because you lack the personal apttude and basic mental skills to endure.

i have much more than an 8th grade education. i dont know anyone who hasnt got at least an equivelent of a high school education and i know lots more who hold college degrees.

some of the MOS schools and A schools and C schools that our servicemembers have to go through are probably over your head. its ok, i understand. it takes a certain something in someone to be able to keep a level head and make decisions with peoples lives in your hands under the stress of fire.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Level X
 



Do you have proof of murderous combat roles?


Lets reverse that... It's more like.. what proof do we NOT have of America's murderous combat roles...? You must use an American flag as sheets... How could anyone say this in 2009?? Put the video's down and come into the real world.


Do you really believe the US(pop 300Million) can pull off a global takeover(5.5 billion plus)?


So believe Iranian, Chinese or Al Queda armies could drive hundreds of miles across America and park in your yard??
When you reverse things you can see how millions of spooked Americans can fall for any spooky story...

It is a fact the military strips all human emotions and replaces them with "macho murderer", "kill or be killed" and "We own your arse!"

Ok... it's brainwashing at it's best... but recognize it for that. Don't think you are Super hero's in Cammo, because you are not --- You are used as killers for hire, and when you really tally up your wage, minus the roll backs on your benifits... you are not making much more than a guy pushing burgers out a Burger King window. Is it worth it??


[edit on 7-12-2009 by Level X]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:34 AM
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Originally posted by havok
That's the problem, you see it as the soldiers slaughtering millions?

They are doing their job. Following orders. Doesn't matter what the orders are in warfare. War kills people. Anywhere you look. You can't just take aim at the US. Look around in Africa, and even Russia. Same problems.


If the orders are of that nature then the job has to be pretty lame.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by felonius
I read a ton of stuff where folks either bash our troops or expect them to be kicking in our doors.


That might be true for your troops but luckily that is not nearly the case for our troops. There might be a reason for that.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 03:01 AM
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ITS DISTURBING TO SEE THAT PEOPLE ARE DEFENDING THE SOLDIERS..
you can't say they are innocent coz they are just following orders,they have brain,they kill ,they see and i am guessing they think too..
they are as much responsible as the people who start this disgusting meaningless war....
invading whole country to find some people...yeah, such naive people..



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 03:06 AM
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reply to post by rainfall
 


Actually, I took from that post that this was more about the freedom granted to apparently selfish people like yourself.

Without these men/women who choose to fight you would either:
a) not be speaking English (i.e. governed by a foreign body)
b) be fighting these wars yourself (conscript)

Show a little respect.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 03:11 AM
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reply to post by zilch
 


So i suppose that you consider every single soldier as equally responsible for the wrongs?

as in i am responsible for the war in iraq? yet i joine almost a full year prior to 9/11...

you are either simply trying to stoke a fire, or are seriously misinformed and out of the loop.

2 suggestions.

go visit a recruiter,
and go visit a military base and take a tour to see all of these horrible people that you think are monsters.

you would be surprised to find how many of them are courteous and proffessionally minded young people and old people who are there out of conviction and love for thier fellow countrymen.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 04:52 AM
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CUE MR PARTY-POOPER

Hi People,

The level of personal attacks, snidey sidejabs and general bollocks in this thread so far is more than enough thanks.

Can we please focus on topic/post...not on the posters themselves.

Be passionate by all means...but never poisonous.



Cheers,
ALIEN



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 04:59 AM
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I was listening to Jesse Ventura a few days ago. He basically said the fact that people today find it too easy to send our volunteer military away to fight, and die, for unjust causes. He suggested that we reintroduce the draft to "share the pain", so "everyone was hurt" - as it would be much harder then to send our children to war. I tend to agree with him. Here in Australia we only pulled out of Vietnam after massive protests after the draft was introduced. Without doing this, I fear it will be the same business as usual. An unpopular war that continues because the people just keep voting in politicians that support it.




What have you done to get the criminals out of D.C..??


Oh that's right....YOU put them in there....and kept them safe..

Thanks for being a TRUE PATRIOT...

Chances are he is protecting the interests of the United States Government, which was probably voted in by people like you. Just curious, what exactly have you done? In any case, the soldiers want to serve their country - they do it by signing up to the military - and then the majority of their countrymen send them away by voting in a criminal government.


ITS DISTURBING TO SEE THAT PEOPLE ARE DEFENDING THE SOLDIERS..
you can't say they are innocent coz they are just following orders,they have brain,they kill ,they see and i am guessing they think too..

Of course I am going to defend the soldiers. They signed up to serve their country, the interests of which were pretty much voted in by the majority, most likely including you. I think instead of shifting the blame from the soldiers, the country needs to accept responsibility for its actions, and stop it from happening again. Kudos to you if you have done that.

[edit on 7/12/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 05:13 AM
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Really great post OP. And it's much appreciated to hear that people still care about us who choose to use the freedoms we fight for to choose to believe that what we fight for is right.

All I have to say to those who use their freedom to believe in what they do and voice their opinion: good for you. I'm happy you can come on a message board and call me and my brothers murderous puppets or whatever you were calling us. It's your human right to do so. It's your right as an uncencored, unoppressed American to do so.

But...you know, I've never actually gotten a bad reception when I've went to another country. The older generation of Okinawans don't much care for us, but the younger generation loves us. I've got pictures of children in the Philippines that have and entire battalion of Marines building them a school, teaching them, playing with them. And they're all happy. You should have seen the send off that we got in Australia when we left Cairns. It was one hell of a site. I think the point I'm getting to is that no matter where we go there will be people who don't like us because they choose not to believe the way we do. And, barring they don't resort to violence, they will be left alone.

You disagree with me. Fine. You can do that until the day you die. But before passing judgement; walk a day in my or any other service members shoes.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by rainfall

Originally posted by Dave157

War is the problem not the soldiers.


Dave,

If all the soldiers say, 'NO, we're not gonna fight your war,' there would be no war....

If tptb called for a war and nobody showed up for it, there would be no war....

The soldiers are just as much to blame as the puppet masters...


i'd be there an hour early. in this day and age, all you really need is a laser pointer and a few aircraft carrier off the coast. i'd call in air support to annihilate a whole city if i have to to get that one guy.

IED's, that's some scary stuff but not as scary as guided missiles and napalm. " i'd fight anyone but these cowards don't want to meet us face to face." oh they do, it's just that an apache gunship will shred them to pieces before i can talk to them. this takes a lot of courage.

when we do engage in gun fights, i'd hide behind a wall, stick my gun over the wall and squeeze a few rounds off and call in air support. or just snipe them, its like a turkey shoot. if that don't work i'll just hit them with artillery from miles away. their chance of survival once engaged is next to nothing, i fare a lot better, not because i was highly trained or anything, my technology is just that awesome.

i would never have to wonder why they're trying to kill me, i'm walking around in their country with an assault rifle in my arms, tanks behind me and jets above. they're scared, i decide if they can come out at night or not. since i bombed most of their industrial infrastructure, i decide who gets to eat. i break their doors down and aim my guns at their mother and father and if i want, i will remove their brother and father from their home. now i understand why they would blow themselves up just to kill me: its simple, revenge. i'll just telll everyone that it's because they think they'll get seven virgin just so their sacrifice are turned into jokes.

after dropping bombs that killed her children, i'll knock on her door and hand her a pamphlet with a smile and a chocolate bar. she can give it to her dead children. i feel that i am brave, battle tested, combat proven. highly trained American soldier at my best.

as i stand with my back against mountains, a bus load of people just got blown up. i can't help but to think if i was never here, would this have happened? i doubt it. who cares, people respect me and i'm getting paid. next war, i'll be there a month early.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 06:19 AM
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Respect is due to our soldier of all countries who fight abroad at the whims of a government that does not really seem to care.

I have nothing but a deep and unwavering respect for those who have chosen to serve but at the same time I am not a supporter of what I deem to be a rushed war for reasons that never seemed to have been sold to the taxpayers both here and in America with honesty and integrity. We seem to have been lied to right from the beginning and the lie was so huge and so dark that it even seems to have sunk to the debauched levels of assassination just to keep the fail game going (Dr David Kelly).

British intelligence expert concludes Dr Kelly was assassinated

If the hawks had been more upfront rather than assuming we would get behind this war based on the premise of weapons of mass destruction by an evil regime that could and probably would launch them at a forty five minuet notice then perhaps the war might be seen as being an honourable thing based on true ideals of freeing a people from the despotic hands of a tyrant. Of course even that would have been nought but lies because I have come to realise that there was probably never an honourable intent behind this war and that was almost certainly why the lies perpetuated lies in the regard for reasons for war.

Sadly the hawks both in my land and in America went down the rout of the liar and because they chose to insult our intelligence their lies were soon found out. They have been proven to be liars as the passage of time is the best of hindsight’s and thus their war aims and the reasons for the war had been deemed less than worthy. For me this has been the most painful thing to see because the soldiers dying and fighting out there for our leaders are doing so for war aims that seem to change from month to month.

Bring our boys and girls home they are too good to be expended in this way for a war that was not started with honourable intent and seemed to have been all about ego driven needs revolving around unfinished business, resources, grand standing and agendas that will probably never come to public scrutiny, unless we kick those war mongers out of office.

I am not a hippy who does not know what he is talkingg about. I have served my country and suffered horrible life changing injuries that tookmany years to recover from and I have seen the unspeakable, learned the meaning of true friendships that cannot exist outside a baptism of fire and fear of sudden death. I have stared down at an IRA bomb and I felt my sphincter turn to jelly (a most terrible, eye watering sight).

I have lost some of the best friends a man could have, so I speak as a former soldier who is sick of this age of eternal warfare.

Soldiers do not kill babies and slaughter all in sight, there are always very clear rules of engagement but rules are subject to change when the SHTF and death and maiming comes calling but many will never understand this because only so much can be understood from the pages of a book.

My point is that there has got to be a better way than this; I am not even sure these days why we slaughter. I do know that I personally die a little more every time another soldier (brit or yank) gets blown to bits in the name of... What exactly I really have become confused on the why of it?

One certainty is death and that certainty comes with the knowledge that my future death will mean no more suffering and also in knowing my brothers and sisters suffer for any reason a politician deems fit for public consumption because those who choose to serve appear to be wasted by those who have no honour or honesty.

So many of us are sick of the wars but we are impotent to stop it and this is democracy when we cannot stop this meat grinder? We put this pond life in office and yet we cannot kick them out because one party is exchanged for another and as they are all in bed together while pretending to be opposites from labour to conservative, from republican to democrat we cannot ever stop the train.

There is no honour, glory and goodness in it, those are the things the media thinks exist and are always keen to espouse these words and ideals like it actually means something and sadly the general populations lap it all up and get a semblance of pride but the reality is just suffering, tears and bitterness, wrapped in wholesome talk of heroism and honour.

Lies wrapped within lies, we are meat feeding the machine and the tastiest meat is the dedicated patriot, potentially the best of us and yet by paradox also likely to be the easiest to corrupt via black hearted indoctrination.

I say to those who can stop this war, “Switch off the furnace, end the war, bring them home or one day you may find that you are having to murder your own population because they rose up with an intent to use you as street lighting!”

I support the troops, I oppose the reasons they fight.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by SmokeJaguar67]



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 06:43 AM
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Well people, I seem to have flushed out some dirtbags from the scrub




[edit on 7-12-2009 by felonius]



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