Did six million really die?

reply to post by DarkStormCrow


Great post! holocaust denial not only seems bizarre to me it actually angers me a bit.... why deny it a hell of a lot of jews were murdered and so were a lot of other groups i don't see people questioning the numbers of poles, gypsies or handicapped people who were murdered! So why the jews? bear in mind the german state was riled up against them through nazi propaganda and claims of them financialy taking over the country...sound familiar anyone? no? read a few posts on this site then "jewmedia" is a term bandied about a lot.
If you are going to question the jewish casualties then could you at least question the other death counts? that at least will make you come across as less anti jewish.rightly so to question numbers but don't be so ignorant as to minimise the scale of this slaughter in doing so.

reply to post by ZombieOctopus


the russian mass murder was not that obvious, and the truth of it revealed itself later than of the holocaust.
Holocaust is possibly so hyped up because it was out in the open and had a very industrial nature contrary to russia where they rounded up people at night, covered by the dark.
I don't think anyone of them is "worse" or "better" murder is murder, and when 1000+ people have allready died by the commands of one individual, it no longer matters how many that individual kills after that, the person has allready tainted his soul to the urecognizable and has morally decayed to zero.

And people who deny holocaust don't know what they are talking about, and are calling all the survivors and victims impostors.

-Peace and sorry for bad Grammar


[edit on 8-6-2010 by Psychiatrium]

What's up with all the anti Jewish threads lately? Has this website been flooded with right wing christians since obama came into office?

I'm not anti Jewish or anti anybody but I think when we hear the phrase "6 million jews died" there's an immediate uncontrollable jump to defend the millions of others who died too, for some of us.

It's like a meme that's out of control. "6 million jews." And it's unfair to millions of other poor civilians who died for nothing and who have been forgotten.

I'm sure it was in a David Morehouse book that I read that about 180million civilians died during the whole of the twentieth century. Why do we still have to cry for 6 million? I want to cry for them all. It's madness.

There are so many atrocities missing from the history we're taught in schools. No-one ever mentions the more than 1000 camps that the jews used after the war to lock up germans, for interrogating, torturing and killing, whole families including their babies. Look up the likes of Solomon Morel.

Japanese were slaughtering their own families by the hundreds because they thought Americans were just over the next hill. Prisoner of war camps contained thousands of soldiers who were slowly starved to death.
Berlin was set on fire. The rape of Nanjing.

No country was innocent.

Don't try and make any sense out of it mate, how many other cliques have laws surrounding an event's authenticity ? I will give you a clue...I don't see anyone being sued for being Anti-Islamic or Anti-Christian and lets be totally honest here to be labeled a "Jew" is about a religion not a race.

These very long, and well done Documentaries raise some questions on the logistics and other issues of the 'Holocaust' as it has been told too through standard educational means.

One Third of the Holocaust

Google Video Link

Buchenwald - A Dumb Dumb Portrayal of Evil.

Google Video Link

Originally posted by audas
Um there are several different types of camps - concentration camps, death camps, labor camps, etc. The Final solution came late in the war and as such there is an absolute impossibility that the numbers are correct for gassing. However that does not mean that 6 million did not die from forced labor, conditions, experimentation, cruelty, indiscriminate murder, starvation, disease etc. The number given is generally seen as between 4 and 6 million jews (a whopping discrepancy of 50%. However the total number of people who died in the death camps is put at 11 million.

What is saddest of all is that even if 6 million Jews did die - 5 million others were put to death and have been entirely forgotten. Their memory has simply been stolen by the Israeli cause.....that is a true shame.

The Russians under glasnost put out a statement that their original numbers were exaggerated to villianize the Nazis even more. From what I have been told, in the Eastern bloc countries, the euros who were killed were at the forefront of teachings, not the jews. Here in the western countries, the others killed are hardly mentioned and the jews are the primary focus. Propaganda that has been allowed to pass as true for many generations now.

From what I have read and seen, 6 million jews is more than what their entire population in Europe was. And they tried that number before in WW1...

Originally posted by RyannVonDoom
From what I have read and seen, 6 million jews is more than what their entire population in Europe was. And they tried that number before in WW1...

Here is an interesting page that shows many uses of the 6 million figure through time prior to World War II
erichunt.net...

Plus , and i'm not 100% on the full influence of this yet, it may be worth looking into the effects of German propaganda on the American Jews during World War I see:
American Jews in World War I - German Propaganda Courting the American Jewry By Thomas Löwer
books.google.com...
Publisher

[edit on 9-6-2010 by And Why]

Originally posted by And Why

Originally posted by RyannVonDoom
From what I have read and seen, 6 million jews is more than what their entire population in Europe was. And they tried that number before in WW1...

Here is an interesting page that shows many uses of the 6 million figure through time prior to World War II
erichunt.net...

Plus , and i'm not 100% on the full influence of this yet, it may be worth looking into the effects of German propaganda on the American Jews during World War I see:
American Jews in World War I - German Propaganda Courting the American Jewry By Thomas Löwer
books.google.com...
Publisher

[edit on 9-6-2010 by And Why]

Thanks for that. I will have to read those when I get home from work. I have been trying to find the Glastnost papers that the Soviets put out saying the numbers were exaggerated and were really around 1 million. No luck at all finding it, will probably find the Mormon Salamander letters before I find that.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


Their is nothing Anti-Jewish about questioning the past especially when it comes to war. Their are some tough questions to answer as to the numbers of pre WW2 Jews in Europe, the chambers allegedly used for the gassings, and the sheer number would be impossible to execute even if they were doing it round the clock for 60 years using the facilities said to of accomplished such a task.

Understand that Policy world wide is structured on what that little state does. Anyway, If people can't question the past, then they can't question the future so that they become caged between the two.

Peace to Jews everywhere, but more importantly peace to all.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by letthereaderunderstand]

Why the hell is it wrong to question if 6 million is the correct number? If I said I thought 5,900,000 Jews died, would you call me a bigot?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
6,000,000 Jewish people but an estimated 32,000,000 - 35,000,000 were slaughtered by The Nazi Regime during the period of 1935 - 1945.

Person's from all ethnicities and backgrounds were all slaughtered.

Caucasian, Arab, Africans, Orientals, Islanders, Hispanics. Let us not forget about the elderly, disabled, handicapped, delinquints, petty criminals, gay, intersexed, . Basically if you did not meet the specifications of "The Master Race" you were killed. Kristallnacht in October 1938 alone resulted in 91 dead with at least 30,000 alone being incarcirated. Those that matched the following description were deemed safe by The Reich :

1. Blonde hair
2. Baby blue eyes
3. Natural and complete Germanic-Nordic ancestry
4. Swear total, blind allegiance and alliance to not only The Reich but to The Fuher exclusively!
5. Saw, recognized, acknowledged Hitler as God and The Reich as above one's family.

Europe's overall population grew during the period between went from 530,000,000 in 1930 to 579,000,000 in 1940.
www.vaughns-1-pagers.com...

For it not for this massive depopulation campaign the population of Europe at that time was not only on track to but should've shot way past 600,000,000 by 1945. Instead the rate of depop was so rapid that the pop was not able to overtake the depop campaign.

With Germany and many other Nazi ran nations records having been destroyed in an effort to erase Jewish people from the historical record makes it in reality impossible to determine the true death toll. Most record were either not kept, destroyed or moved to a safe place where they even might sit to this day. World War II caused between 62,000,000 - 78,000,000 total deaths in combat alone but is most definitely higher as most poor were not even registered with the Govt.

Reiterations and additional info issued.

reply to post by JPhish


There is evidence that jews were gassed and killed in the concentration camps,including witnesses that are still alive.

The denial of the Holocaust operates in a way that is similar to the denial of the conspiracy against freedom by the mainstream media. In both cases, the question of mass murder and evil is turned around against the people making the allegation. Both forms of denial are great tools for allowing evil to continue. Remember when "conspiracy theorists" were the problem, when uncovering the real truth made *YOU* the problem instead of them? The same process works when Holocaust survivors are accused of making up what happened. Instead of Nazi mass murder, the problem becomes "Zionist shills" who made it all up. It is the same process of denial in both cases.

Conspiracy researchers are called paranoid and sexually repressed. Jews who survived the Holocaust are similarly labeled. Oddly, if members of the elite were behind the rise of Hitler, as Sutton and others have claimed, then their own crimes would be covered up by a denial of the Holocaust! I would think that people on this forum would be wise to a COINTELPRO meme like Holocaust denial. That is my take.

Originally posted by EarthEvolves
Oddly, if members of the elite were behind the rise of Hitler, as Sutton and others have claimed, then their own crimes would be covered up by a denial of the Holocaust!

As indeed they are. Class actions against the Vatican, Swiss and other international banks, Siemens, VW, ITT, BMW, Ford, Bayer etc, etc, for reparations based on the profits that they gained from the use of slave labour are repeatedly swept under the carpet. The use of slaves, and profitting from their labour, was at the time, and obviously still, a crime in every country that participated in World War two. Genocide, on the otherhand, was not classed as a crime until 1948. And yet, no one has been prosecuted for the very well documented cases of slave labour use under the Third Reich. Many of those corporations who used slavery can very much base their subsequent market position on the edge that free and expendable labour gave them.

Additionally many of those corporations, by the policy of denying the Jews ownership of businesses, profitted by being able to take over those businesses at bargain basement prices.

Holocaust denial very much serves the interests of these organisations and is most likely proliferated with their assistance.

reply to post by Biliverdin


It is sad that Mae Brussel never made it to today. We need more voices like hers!

Originally posted by BG43214
'Special sympathy rights'........that's the term I've been trying to think of.....yes the Jewish people suffered terribly....but so did many others!!

The most irritating outcome of all this was when, a few years ago, a Dutch professor visited one of the camps and put the bricks used in the ovens to some type of chemical testing - he came up with the fact that the bricks in - at least the area he researched - had never been exposed to fire, etc.,,,,,,,,,,,,his conclusion was that it was a typhoid epidemic that killed them.......

Then he was taken to court by some Jewish organization of the time and found guilty, and lost his position at the university where was teaching!!

Now that's what I call a little ridiculous.......'uh, we don't agree with what you found, so, hey, you no longer have a job'.......what gives ANY group the right to do that to someone????????????????

You know I think Israel would gain a lot of good favor in the world's eyes if they took a moment to honor everyone who died for the holocaust and the gentile lives that were given so the Jews could have their nation. I think this would be a far better policy, one of gratitude as opposed to the poor me victim stuff.

And I'm not trying to be racist I swear! It's just that gratitude works in everyone's life on a daily level. And if "we" literally lost that many people for "them". I think a yearly celebration of thanks is in order. At least annual showing of thanks. (And I don't mean remembrance day. We do that for our fallen) It just seems like in Israel's eyes "our" loss for "them" is proof of God holding the Jewish people above all others.

Which IMHO is bullocks. Again, not because I'm racist but because I don't believe in traditional concepts of "God". My opinion on this has nothing to do with the Jewish people but of organized religion itself.

I'm sure there are individual Jews that are grateful of course. I'm not trying to generalize here. All I'm talking about is a little good PR, regardless of whether the official story of WW2 is true or false, either way I think this would be a good move for Israel. But also if it was heartfelt, from the Nation, that would be great too.

survivors like this guy?

Where is Elie’s Tattoo?

www.eliewieseltattoo.com...

no wonder people question this

Originally posted by EarthEvolves
It is sad that Mae Brussel never made it to today. We need more voices like hers!

Indeed. I have a great deal of respect for Mae Brussel's work.

Originally posted by wigit
I'm not anti Jewish or anti anybody but I think when we hear the phrase "6 million jews died" there's an immediate uncontrollable jump to defend the millions of others who died too, for some of us.

It's like a meme that's out of control. "6 million jews." And it's unfair to millions of other poor civilians who died for nothing and who have been forgotten.

I'm sure it was in a David Morehouse book that I read that about 180million civilians died during the whole of the twentieth century. Why do we still have to cry for 6 million? I want to cry for them all. It's madness.

There are so many atrocities missing from the history we're taught in schools. No-one ever mentions the more than 1000 camps that the jews used after the war to lock up germans, for interrogating, torturing and killing, whole families including their babies. Look up the likes of Solomon Morel.

Japanese were slaughtering their own families by the hundreds because they thought Americans were just over the next hill. Prisoner of war camps contained thousands of soldiers who were slowly starved to death.
Berlin was set on fire. The rape of Nanjing.

No country was innocent.

The truth is just as many millions of Germans died in the holocaust, as well as several hundred thousand Roma where also butchered.