Did six million really die?

Hello ATS,

I found this video on youtube a while back and found it to be very interesting.

I am posting the video, so that you may view the sources and check the figures yourselves, but will also give a synopsis.

The video basically refutes the numbers of the holocaust based on emigration and census records of the time for the years before, during and after the war. According to the records that can be gathered the number of six million is a long stretch of the actuality.

Here is the video. It is scrolling text and can be a little tiresome, but all the sources are given.

After is an interview with a Bishop, who also speaks of going from actual evidence that the numbers are far exagerated.

(Personally I just want to know the truth. I love Jews, but their Government....yuck)

Anyway what do you guys think. Take time to check sources...peace




[edit on 5-12-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]

I don't think it really matters if 2, 3, 4 or 6 million Jews died, it was a lot. What I don't understand though, is why they have special sympathy rights when 24 million Russians died, including 14 million civilians. If any nation deserves unique sympathy, it's the Russian people, not the Jews.

I don't know about six million, but my family personally lost 10 members, and they where in poland.

Six million does seem like a slightly inflated number, it wouldnt surprise me if Six million is the total number of all people killed due to Nazi eugenics.

However I am sure that the Jewish community did suffer considerable loss (a couple of million), enough to make people raising this question continously completely sick.

Whether that is justification for giving the Zionists Palestine to remake Israel and everything that happened since is another discussion entirely. Encouraging Holocaust denial is disgusting simple as, just as disgusting as what israel is doing to the Palestianians and what they are doing to Israeli born innocent citizens in return.

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
I don't think it really matters if 2, 3, 4 or 6 million Jews died, it was a lot. What I don't understand though, is why they have special sympathy rights when 24 million Russians died, including 14 million civilians. If any nation deserves unique sympathy, it's the Russian people, not the Jews.

The only motive at the time that I can think of was to foster sympathy for the Zionist movement to regain Palestine. That movement started as early as the 1850's, so the sympathy generator was turning in WW1 as well.

If anything it is an amazing gift that their leaders have to make a story "larger then life".

Thanks for your comment,

Peace

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
I don't know about six million, but my family personally lost 10 members, and they where in poland.

Six million does seem like a slightly inflated number, it wouldnt surprise me if Six million is the total number of all people killed due to Nazi eugenics.

However I am sure that the Jewish community did suffer considerable loss (a couple of million), enough to make people raising this question continously completely sick.

Whether that is justification for giving the Zionists Palestine to remake Israel and everything that happened since is another discussion entirely. Encouraging Holocaust denial is disgusting simple as, just as disgusting as what israel is doing to the Palestianians and what they are doing to Israeli born innocent citizens in return.

Both of these sources say around 350,000 to 200,000. Personally there is no difference, as you said, how many died. People died enough said.

I just find it fascinating that history could be that manipulated with only 60 yrs. time.

Anyway , thanks for your comment...

Peace

If you are a objective thinker, the number matters, it would be a matter of accuracy and nothing to do with attempting to play down the suffering. Which is the argument you'd get from the emotional who do not have the ability to reason without bias.


[edit on 5-12-2009 by fumanchu]

History is manipulated all the time, its a common way of the world.

I just find it disappointing that anti-zionists keep using the holocaust as an attacking point against the modern state of Israel. There is plenty to choose from.

In England we are told "Never Forget" all the atrocities that happened in World War 2 so that they won't happen again.

For me downplaying the impact of the holocaust, the undeniable eugenics pogroms of the Nazi's, even when using it for a valid cause like attacking zionism, its a very distasteful form of spin which is dangerous in itself.

Talk about the Zionist movements, about the atrocities happening because of actions of both sides in the middle east, and the links to the wealthy families of old europe etc.

But let the innocent dead rest in peace, no doubt their blood was used as coin, Israel is there for all to see, if you find fault then take it up with the people who put it there, and try a provide a solution to allow the innocent generations who had nothing to do with the events of 60 years ago to come back together in peace, as they jews and the arabs did the area for hundreds of years before that.

i came to my own conclusion that it was definitely less than 2 million. Probably somewhere around 1 million.

Most of the numbers were severely inflated because of wartime propaganda. They were trying to villainize the Nazis.

They made up lots of ridiculous things.

Gassing millions of Jews in chambers and then turning them into soap?

I don't think so.

Working the Jews, using them to power Hitlers war machine but "offing" them when they were no longer viable workers by freezing them to death or shooting them?

Sounds a hell of a lot more likely and feasible to me.

EDIT: just watched the first video, seems in line with the research i've done.

currently watching second video

EDIT: just watched the second video; what this priest is saying is accurate to my knowledge. He's even leaving some stuff out which further supports that there were no gas chambers, but what he says suffices. Anyone who claims the man is wrong should do their own research.

Good videos LTRU

[edit on 12/5/2009 by JPhish]

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
History is manipulated all the time, its a common way of the world.

That pretty much sums it up. People will exaggerate all the time; propaganda even children can learn.

I would also guess the number to be inflated by adding in mental defectives, gypsies, homosexuals and a few other groups. The holocausts iin Russia, China and Manchuria all need to remembered as well. Jews were special in that they were basically the only religious group singled out for extermination. .

Ever hear the statement...6 MILLION LIES???

Interesting too that in the combined voluminous writings of De Gaulle and Churchill (one of the American senior generals too I believe), covering the whole of the war years, there is no mention of a Jewish Holocaust, extermination camps or gas chambers! Very telling indeed.
If they existed, as we are told, you'd think that maybe one of these wartime leaders would have mentioned them?

It's true also that perhaps the numbers are not important, but if we are being sold a story that 6 Million Jews were exterminated, then those making the allegation should be able to back it up with hard evidence, not have people jailed for asking about all the discrepencies.

As for the allegation above of the "Anti-Zionists" bringing up the Holocaust as an attacking point against the state of Israel, surely it's the other way around. The Israeli government and it's many bought politicians around the world, not to mention many other Jews, throw the word "Holocaust" at the rest of us at every opportunity, in a sick and twisted attempt to justify their own brutality and barbarism as being defence.

My own personal opinion, I judge all by their actions, not the colour of their skin or which political party or religion they follow. Thus, unemcumbered by dogma I can call a spade a spade and can recognise brutality for what it is, whoever is commiting it. Wrong is wrong and has no excuse!

Hey guys thanks for your comments.

I find it weird that in the video with the bishop, the interview jumps to calling him an anti-semite.

I think it strange that any jew cry this out without recognizing who a Semite is.

From Wiktionary..

Etymology

French sémite, from Semitic shem, from Late Latin, from Greek σημ, from Hebrew שם (šēm) ("name").
[edit] Proper noun

Singular
Semite
Plural
-Semite
1. a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.
2. descendant of these peoples.
3. a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language.
4. a descendant of the biblical Patriarch Shem.

This is a wide group of people, not just the Jews, but a much larger collage of people, as it is said, the ancestors "of the name" Shem. Now throw in Curley and Moe and....sorry that name just always reminded me of those three famous jews...the three stooges...Love em..

What do you guys think, odd to call that out when it belongs to such a wider group?

Peace

Um there are several different types of camps - concentration camps, death camps, labor camps, etc. The Final solution came late in the war and as such there is an absolute impossibility that the numbers are correct for gassing. However that does not mean that 6 million did not die from forced labor, conditions, experimentation, cruelty, indiscriminate murder, starvation, disease etc. The number given is generally seen as between 4 and 6 million jews (a whopping discrepancy of 50%. However the total number of people who died in the death camps is put at 11 million.

What is saddest of all is that even if 6 million Jews did die - 5 million others were put to death and have been entirely forgotten. Their memory has simply been stolen by the Israeli cause.....that is a true shame.

I'm tired of this BS. Take a look at all the...websites bringing the discussion up, you'd expect them to bring up anything convincing but there is nothing to add to their stance....I mean really, you can be convinced of anything. No surprise the jewish almanach wasn't particularily accurate because surely not every "lung infection" somebody succumbed to would be heard about. I'm just thinking, that people should concentrate less on the numbers (yes, that's deflection and it's okay for me) because the numbers don't tell you about the human suffering. People were submitted to air pressure experiments and eugenics, sterilization and the like and that was all done by scientists, doctorates. That's not even cruelty based on emotional affinity that the nazis succumbed to. How many people officially died in WWII? "40 to 52 million", that's the civilian casualties. Now what happens if you have a genocidal policy targeting especially such unarmed citizens? Why does six sound implausible in that sense?
What bad is it stirring the hearts up against nazis if you don't intend to have any sentiments for them? What you use that sentiment for is another question, I agree with audas.
Honestly, it might be a problem what you do with that information now, but I have no problem seeing the past for what it was and finding nazis to be undesirable dumb#es.

//edit: Yes, some swiss folks are antisemites, too. Probably. The linguistics may be inaccurate but that doesn't really change anything about this situation, where we *sadly* are forced to wish for a higher death toll because otherwise there's gonna be those nazi shills who hook everbody up on it. Neither side looks at it rationally in any way after all.

[edit on 7/12/09 by thricearound]

I think people really are that evil, so you cannot say that people would not be doing this. I think the holocaust happened. Human beings really are that evil.

It's not like they "died", it was a concious decision made by officials to excessively abuse and neglect purposefully and with malintent.

Over 10 million people died in the holocaust. That number is well researched, and accurate. There is no reason at all to doubt it.

'Special sympathy rights'........that's the term I've been trying to think of.....yes the Jewish people suffered terribly....but so did many others!!

The most irritating outcome of all this was when, a few years ago, a Dutch professor visited one of the camps and put the bricks used in the ovens to some type of chemical testing - he came up with the fact that the bricks in - at least the area he researched - had never been exposed to fire, etc.,,,,,,,,,,,,his conclusion was that it was a typhoid epidemic that killed them.......

Then he was taken to court by some Jewish organization of the time and found guilty, and lost his position at the university where was teaching!!

Now that's what I call a little ridiculous.......'uh, we don't agree with what you found, so, hey, you no longer have a job'.......what gives ANY group the right to do that to someone????????????????

The only thing I don't like about it is that whenever someone mentions the Holocaust (especially in America), it's identified as the Jewish holocaust. When in fact, so many people died, not just Jews.

It was just "The Holocaust", period. It wasn't the holocaust of the Jews. Yes, a lot of Jews died, but it's as if people want us to forget all about the other people and remember only the Jews. Suppressing history and forcing sympathy for Israel.

Some scholars maintain that the definition of the Holocaust should also include the Nazis' systematic murder of millions of people in other groups, including Catholics, ethnic Poles, the Romani, Soviet civilians, Soviet prisoners of war, people with disabilities, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other political and religious opponents. By this definition, the total number of Holocaust victims would be between 11 million and 17 million people.

Source