reply to post by On the Edge
I scanned it, and it just sounds like a bunch of theological mumbojumo, nothing about the Jesuits and the rapture.
I'm not a Christian, but I'm nearly finished an MA in anthropology and I haven't heard of that theory in 4 years of comparative and historical
theology. That doesn't mean it isn't true but if I remember the rapture, it was proposed in the 18th century by Philip Doddridge, whom, as far as I
know, was a Protestant minister.
Is the rapture coming?, page 3
privacy
reply posted on 3-12-2009 @ 09:39 PM by freetree64
reply to post by On the Edge
Did you mean like this recent article?
Center Seeks Common Language to Dialogue on Mideast
Conference Draws Israeli and Palestinian Scholars
By Mariaelena Finessi
ROME, DEC. 3, 2009 (Zenit.org).- The retired prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches presided over a discussion on a book by an Italian scholar regarding the Holy Places of Jerusalem in the struggle for peace in the Middle East.
Cardinal Achille Silvestrini directed the Nov. 19 conference on Enrico Molinaro's "The Holy Places of Jerusalem in Middle East Peace Agreements: The Conflict Between Global and State Identities."
Ambassadors and Israeli and Palestinian experts joined in the discussion.
Molinaro proposes a study center for the Holy Places of Jerusalem, with a profile that does not pertain to any political or religious party: "We do not wish to impose anything on anyone, either on the national parties or the religious communities. Instead, we are at their service and, in this connection, we preferred the term 'Center' instead of 'Observatory,' as originally proposed. In fact, we resolved not to control or observe but rather to respond to requests for further reflection and writing of common principles or a common glossary, and all this for the advantage of the local populations."
The center, initially with headquarters in Rome, will be dedicated to study and research, as well as the promotion and facilitating of relations between the communities. Research activity will be focused on safeguarding respect for liberty of worship and access to the Holy Places for all.
Moreover, the center will promote reconciliation, interreligious and intercultural dialogue through activities of administrative, economic, fiscal, commercial and security consultation.
And in collaboration with the European Union, the United Nations, the United States and Russia, it aims to organize informal meetings on certain aspects of the complex issue of Middle East peace, eventually helping to sway public opinion toward cooperation.
More than places
"The Holy Places are not museums, or monuments for tourists, but posts in which believers live with their culture and their institutions and which, because of this, must be safeguarded -- keeping in mind, however, that what one wishes to safeguard is not only the heritage of the past but also the people who live there today, and those who will live there in the future," explained Monsignor Alberto Ortega Martin, representing the Vatican Secretariat of State at the conference.
Nazmi Al-Jubeh, co-director of the RIWAQ Center for Architectural Conservation in Ramallah, affirmed that it is erroneous to believe that the conflict over Jerusalem is only religious.
"Instead, it is above all territorial and it is because of this that the solution to the problem can no longer be deferred," he said.
For his part, Mark Heller of the Institute for National Security Studies of Tel Aviv reflected on the role of emotions and passions in this controversy. He said these are factors that "should be reserved to human relations," and should not define interactions between national authorities.
An approach free of prejudices and ideologies, and hence exclusively technical-juridical, is what Victor Magiar said he hopes for. Magiar in an official of the Jewish Community of Rome.
"The political solution must be separated from the religious solution, to impede politics from using religion for political purposes and religion from using politics for religious purposes," he said.
--- --- ---
On the Net:
"The Holy Places of Jerusalem in Middle East Peace Agreements":
www.amazon.com/Places-Jerusalem-Middle-Peace-Agreements/dp
Did you mean like this recent article?
Center Seeks Common Language to Dialogue on Mideast
Conference Draws Israeli and Palestinian Scholars
By Mariaelena Finessi
ROME, DEC. 3, 2009 (Zenit.org).- The retired prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches presided over a discussion on a book by an Italian scholar regarding the Holy Places of Jerusalem in the struggle for peace in the Middle East.
Cardinal Achille Silvestrini directed the Nov. 19 conference on Enrico Molinaro's "The Holy Places of Jerusalem in Middle East Peace Agreements: The Conflict Between Global and State Identities."
Ambassadors and Israeli and Palestinian experts joined in the discussion.
Molinaro proposes a study center for the Holy Places of Jerusalem, with a profile that does not pertain to any political or religious party: "We do not wish to impose anything on anyone, either on the national parties or the religious communities. Instead, we are at their service and, in this connection, we preferred the term 'Center' instead of 'Observatory,' as originally proposed. In fact, we resolved not to control or observe but rather to respond to requests for further reflection and writing of common principles or a common glossary, and all this for the advantage of the local populations."
The center, initially with headquarters in Rome, will be dedicated to study and research, as well as the promotion and facilitating of relations between the communities. Research activity will be focused on safeguarding respect for liberty of worship and access to the Holy Places for all.
Moreover, the center will promote reconciliation, interreligious and intercultural dialogue through activities of administrative, economic, fiscal, commercial and security consultation.
And in collaboration with the European Union, the United Nations, the United States and Russia, it aims to organize informal meetings on certain aspects of the complex issue of Middle East peace, eventually helping to sway public opinion toward cooperation.
More than places
"The Holy Places are not museums, or monuments for tourists, but posts in which believers live with their culture and their institutions and which, because of this, must be safeguarded -- keeping in mind, however, that what one wishes to safeguard is not only the heritage of the past but also the people who live there today, and those who will live there in the future," explained Monsignor Alberto Ortega Martin, representing the Vatican Secretariat of State at the conference.
Nazmi Al-Jubeh, co-director of the RIWAQ Center for Architectural Conservation in Ramallah, affirmed that it is erroneous to believe that the conflict over Jerusalem is only religious.
"Instead, it is above all territorial and it is because of this that the solution to the problem can no longer be deferred," he said.
For his part, Mark Heller of the Institute for National Security Studies of Tel Aviv reflected on the role of emotions and passions in this controversy. He said these are factors that "should be reserved to human relations," and should not define interactions between national authorities.
An approach free of prejudices and ideologies, and hence exclusively technical-juridical, is what Victor Magiar said he hopes for. Magiar in an official of the Jewish Community of Rome.
"The political solution must be separated from the religious solution, to impede politics from using religion for political purposes and religion from using politics for religious purposes," he said.
--- --- ---
On the Net:
"The Holy Places of Jerusalem in Middle East Peace Agreements":
www.amazon.com/Places-Jerusalem-Middle-Peace-Agreements/dp
reply posted on 3-12-2009 @ 09:44 PM by On the Edge
reply to post by freetree64
I hadn't seen that,but it sounds bad to me!
Anytime the Catholic Church and the U.N. are working together,...it's bad news!
I hadn't seen that,but it sounds bad to me!
Anytime the Catholic Church and the U.N. are working together,...it's bad news!
reply posted on 3-12-2009 @ 09:46 PM by On the Edge
reply to post by Jsmallz
Please read my earlier post,about the fourth one into this thread. It should make it clear to you.
[edit on 3-12-2009 by On the Edge]
Please read my earlier post,about the fourth one into this thread. It should make it clear to you.
[edit on 3-12-2009 by On the Edge]
reply posted on 3-12-2009 @ 09:48 PM by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by starwarsisreal
No the rapture isn't coming.
Even if someone were to believe the Bible, which I strongly advise against, the Rapture in the Bible occurs in Thessalonians, not in Revelation.
I view the Rapture as no different than the Heavens Gate believers believing aliens were coming to get them behind a comet.
Jesus came so that people would stop waiting around for phantom Messiahs and start saving themselves and living good lives now. He didn't live so that everyone could sit around waiting for him to return. That was the whole mistake everyone was making, they were enslaved under Roman rule WAITING for a Messiah. Jesus came along to tell them to stop waiting and he taught them to be their own saviors.
The actual concept of pre-tribulation rapture didn't really come around until the late 1700s. So it's based on an interpretation of the vague prophecies found in the Bible. How much confidence should someone have in it if it's based on some interpretation of a vague prophecy that isn't even found amongst the other prophecies such as those in Revelation.
No the rapture isn't coming.
Even if someone were to believe the Bible, which I strongly advise against, the Rapture in the Bible occurs in Thessalonians, not in Revelation.
I view the Rapture as no different than the Heavens Gate believers believing aliens were coming to get them behind a comet.
Jesus came so that people would stop waiting around for phantom Messiahs and start saving themselves and living good lives now. He didn't live so that everyone could sit around waiting for him to return. That was the whole mistake everyone was making, they were enslaved under Roman rule WAITING for a Messiah. Jesus came along to tell them to stop waiting and he taught them to be their own saviors.
The actual concept of pre-tribulation rapture didn't really come around until the late 1700s. So it's based on an interpretation of the vague prophecies found in the Bible. How much confidence should someone have in it if it's based on some interpretation of a vague prophecy that isn't even found amongst the other prophecies such as those in Revelation.
reply posted on 3-12-2009 @ 09:54 PM by freetree64
reply to post by On the Edge
Amen brother, and check out this quote from"Tim Lahaye's" book "Are we living in the end times"? written in 1999
"When will these things culminate? No one really knows. Some one-world optimists have suggested the year 2000, but we think they are premature. Others more realistically say it will come by the year 2010."
How's that for eerily accurate....?
[edit on 3-12-2009 by freetree64]
Amen brother, and check out this quote from"Tim Lahaye's" book "Are we living in the end times"? written in 1999
"When will these things culminate? No one really knows. Some one-world optimists have suggested the year 2000, but we think they are premature. Others more realistically say it will come by the year 2010."
How's that for eerily accurate....?
[edit on 3-12-2009 by freetree64]
reply posted on 3-12-2009 @ 10:00 PM by On the Edge
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
Jesus's main warning about the End-Times was this:
"Watch out that no one deceives you.".....Matthew 24:4
"What I say to you,I say to everyone:'Watch!'"...Mark 13:37 (He gave us the signs to watch for!)
No where does the Bible teach that Jesus told us to be our own Saviors!
That's ridiculous,and you know it!
Jesus's main warning about the End-Times was this:
"Watch out that no one deceives you.".....Matthew 24:4
"What I say to you,I say to everyone:'Watch!'"...Mark 13:37 (He gave us the signs to watch for!)
No where does the Bible teach that Jesus told us to be our own Saviors!
That's ridiculous,and you know it!
reply posted on 3-12-2009 @ 10:05 PM by RRokkyy
Originally posted by starwarsisreal
Is the rapture coming? So many people are expecting the rapture to happen
www.canada.com...
The question is the rapture going to happen? And please tell me any possible theory why the rapture idea came if you say it's fake.
Its Real. I was there. I saw it. I felt. It is extraordinary. It is everything you wanted. It is not lacking. It is the Truth. Beyond Time and Space. Perfect Love/Bliss.
But it is just the appearance of God in the Flesh.
And the Grace He Transmits to His Disciples.
Nobody believes me.
reply posted on 3-12-2009 @ 10:12 PM by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by On the Edge
Jesus's whole religion was based on the idea of saving yourself and taking responsibility for your own actions.
Jesus says "I am the way." he's not talking about himself, he's talking about every individual. He's talking about no need for a middle man to save you, no need for a priest only "I" am the way to salvation, the divine self.
Jesus teaches them to pray "our father" reinforcing that we are children of God, when he says he is the son of God is not speaking literally but figuratively about all men.
Jesus gives them Communion in which they ingest the Savior, the Savior is now within them.
Jesus teaches you to worry about the log in your own eye, teaches responsibility for one's own sins.
Jesus wanted his people to stop waiting around for some Messiah that would never show up and take initiative for themselves but it was hard to do, they were poor and living under Roman rule, so he had to lead them and show them an example. This is the whole purpose of being like Christ, is to be able to save yourself through love. The message has been corroded by time and ignored by the mainstream Church.
Jesus's whole religion was based on the idea of saving yourself and taking responsibility for your own actions.
Jesus says "I am the way." he's not talking about himself, he's talking about every individual. He's talking about no need for a middle man to save you, no need for a priest only "I" am the way to salvation, the divine self.
Jesus teaches them to pray "our father" reinforcing that we are children of God, when he says he is the son of God is not speaking literally but figuratively about all men.
Jesus gives them Communion in which they ingest the Savior, the Savior is now within them.
Jesus teaches you to worry about the log in your own eye, teaches responsibility for one's own sins.
Jesus wanted his people to stop waiting around for some Messiah that would never show up and take initiative for themselves but it was hard to do, they were poor and living under Roman rule, so he had to lead them and show them an example. This is the whole purpose of being like Christ, is to be able to save yourself through love. The message has been corroded by time and ignored by the mainstream Church.
reply posted on 3-12-2009 @ 10:26 PM by On the Edge
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
If that's what you want to believe,have at it!
I'm happy with my beliefs,and I'm sure you are with yours.
May God bless you.
If that's what you want to believe,have at it!
I'm happy with my beliefs,and I'm sure you are with yours.
May God bless you.
reply posted on 3-12-2009 @ 10:33 PM by On the Edge
reply to post by freetree64
You're not taking Tim LaHaye seriously,are you? He wrote the whole "Left Behind" series!
And no wonder..".It sells! It's what itching ears want to hear".
He and others may make some good connections,but I stay clear of them myself. (I'm not saying they're not right about anything! Test everything and hold on to what is good!)
The "2010" reference sounds a bit premature maybe? I don't know! It could happen,if the things that are meant to happen come to pass.
I know things are going to get alot worse before they get better,that's for sure!
You're not taking Tim LaHaye seriously,are you? He wrote the whole "Left Behind" series!
And no wonder..".It sells! It's what itching ears want to hear".
He and others may make some good connections,but I stay clear of them myself. (I'm not saying they're not right about anything! Test everything and hold on to what is good!)
The "2010" reference sounds a bit premature maybe? I don't know! It could happen,if the things that are meant to happen come to pass.
I know things are going to get alot worse before they get better,that's for sure!
reply posted on 4-12-2009 @ 12:43 AM by dthwraith
Originally posted by starwarsisreal
Is the rapture coming? So many people are expecting the rapture to happen
www.canada.com...
The question is the rapture going to happen? And please tell me any possible theory why the rapture idea came if you say it's fake.
The rapture of the church is an event in which the Church will disappear from Earth some time before the 2nd Coming. Beside the difference in timing, there are several other differences between the rapture and the 2nd Coming. One is that the rapture takes the Church from the Earth while the 2nd Coming brings the Lord to the Earth. Another is that the rapture is a secret event that happens without warning, while the 2nd Coming will follow many clear warning signs and will be witnessed by all the people of Earth.
As to just how close we are to the rapture no one knows because it’s timing is one of the end times secrets that God maintains for strategic purposes, and that’s one of the problems with the post trib position. How can you have a secret rapture when the Bible gives a clear time line for every other end times event beginning with a treaty that permits the building of a temple in Israel? If the rapture happens at or even near the end of this chain of events it’s timing could be easily determined as soon as the treaty is signed, seven years before the event.
If the End Times formally began with the return of Jerusalem to Jewish control as prophesied in Luke 21:24, (1948) and if all end times prophecies are to be fulfilled within the span of a Biblical lifetime (70yrs) as prophesied in Matt. 24:34, then all will be fulfilled by 2018. That means the Rapture, Daniel’s 70th week, Great Tribulation, 2nd Coming and about 500 other signs must all occur by then.
[edit on 4-12-2009 by dthwraith]
What if all the major religions started out with the same story and it slowly diverged from there
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