You have all gotten in bed with the enemy.

Originally posted by deloneninja
Also..its hard to live without the help from stores and super markets. Not everyone is a hillbilly armed to the teeth inside a home made bunker with hydroponic farms and water filtration.

True, but there are things you can do.
How much depends a lot on circumstances but ...
1) get out of debt
2) shop local, small stores
3) fresh real fruits in veggies and what is in season mostly not shipped in
4) turn off the tv
5) distill your water if you live in the US
6) Consider walking/biking if you can

Its a start.

reply to post by fleabit


Yeah, you can live without credit cards easy enough. It just depends on what level of "status" you desire and how much you want to consume.

Still, you don't need credit cards to end up deeply in debt. You could get sick.
If you don't have medical insurance a half day in the emergency room with an MRI will leave you anywhere from 5 to 7 thousand in debt.
And if you're really sick and need prolonged treatment or injured requiring surgery... better sell your house (or whatever else you have).

Of course that's only if you live here in the land of the free.

We are driven by waste and consumerism.
This is how it's done.
I personally think that the idea of a secular sustainable environment is the most economically advantageous way to promote mass consumerism for the individual along with actual continual economic growth of western culture and lifestyle, but that is another argument thread.
(because several religions have already figured out all of this sustainable living stuff, but only if you follow their rules)

We are taught to consume and that has become the mantra.
Never what we give back, but only what we consume.

It's about focus and mindcontrol.
The ultimate goal is to have a sustainable lifestyle but with absolutely no rules for the individual, thus we are all gods.

Annuit Coeptis Novus Ordo Seclorum.

Originally posted by jitter
reply to post by fleabit

 

And if you're really sick and need prolonged treatment or injured requiring surgery... better sell your house (or whatever else you have).

Of course that's only if you live here in the land of the free.

Indeed. I got lucky, really sick in Costa Rica. Half day in ER, tests, follow-up ..
$200.

I just got back from a cruise in Europe. One of the places I went to was Pompeii which is about 20 miles (that is an educated guess based on drive time) inland from Naples, Italy. Back in 72 AD Pompeii was a city on the water..... now it is a city of ruins that is 35 minutes from the water. What was it that made the water recede?
This whole global warming thing doesn't make sense. I am not saying all of it is a hoax, I am saying that the earth obviously goes through different phases.....
Maybe the waters are going through their phase and returning to how they were thousands of years ago.
There was an ice age here on earth right? This was thousands of years ago so it wasn't "global warming" that caused the earth to heat up....it was a phase that the earth went through.....
So the 1 degree tempature difference in the last 25 years is maybe just the earth going through its phase.... why does it always have to be that people are doing such bad things? Maybe it is natural?

We already know but their quilts are very soft and priced only at $2.99. We would get in the beds of our own people but that would mean paying an extra $4-10 for the same product. The corporate giants have deluded our minds with "quantity not quality", when it is supposed to be vice-versa.

If we all boycott these giant corporations it will do nothing but raise prices at other places. Remember, these guys have investments in each others industries, the entertainment industry, and basically every major one. While we were shopping for Chinese made products, they were investing, we were unwrapping our cheap made products, they were looking at the past for signs for the future.

Hey man, its like this, Walmart has the cheapest prices and GE pays my bills, what are you gonna do?? Mans gotta eat.

reply to post by mc_squared


FINALLY a climate thread that makes some SENSE! And what happens? It gets taken off the front page and moved to the bottom of the pile just as quickly as it was put up there.

I've really been wondering why everyone is so quick to attack the ideas of GW and climate change. Is it just because it's the cool thing to do at the moment?

Good post, s&f

Hell no, I haven't forgotten who all the bad guys are.
They're the guys who are trying to put the little guy and small business in the poor house.

The guys who talk about conserving and equality, who will inflict their Cap n Trade and health care evilness on me and destroy my way of life.

The Corporatists.
They will put the middle class out of existence.

reply to post by Josephus23


Just wanted to say great post and I gave you a star

Originally posted by WWJFKD
Its a well thought out post and worthy of praise, but my bigger concern is the further erosion of the Constitution as a result of Copenhagen restrictions for instance. We cannot sacrifice our rights for the promise of safety.

But this is in many ways a matter of perspective. By that logic you could also argue the fact that murder is a crime takes away our liberties because it restricts the "right" to kill someone. The potential Copenhagen restrictions are designed to take away our rights to be self-destructive out-of-control jerks basically. They mainly target big business, not us and they are designed to move everyone away from an irresponsible, over-consuming culture to one with a more socially conscious and self-sustainable economy.

Furthermore - think of how many of our rights the Corporatists already take away and people don't even realize it (Bailout!). This was the message of my OP - things like Copenhagen are designed to help us in the fight against these pigs. They involve some sacrifice but ultimately they give us much more freedom than what they take away. And yet so many people around here are siding with the Corporatists.

Originally posted by thenwo
Do you really think they would just start giving out these new technologies for free? Even if it is coming from a cleaner more efficient source, they'll still charge us for it. Why do you think those companies such as GE are jumping on the renewable energy bandwagon?

You're right, but again carbon credits and even renewable energy are not the be-all-end-all of this issue. Like I said before the real deal is learning to be less wasteful and more resourceful with what we have.

If we do this then not only do we benefit ourselves and the whole planet in the process - we also start to realize how little we actually need these jokers. THAT'S when they're screwed.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
But, to keep in the same context that ATS has maintained for this many years, to keep speech as open as the Law & civilized behavior can allow, I think the Three Amigos have done pretty good. Even though they've probably all gone mad from the strain by now!

lol probably.

I love ATS and I very much appreciate what they do. My issue is definitely not with management - it's really with the minions of the conspiracy theory world in general. It's like they used to have it all figured out and now they've become completely lost in the plot and are instead headed back the way they came.

And yeah - ofcourse everybody has the right to freedom of speech - but it's almost like freedom of speech has now run amok too along with Capitalism. It's often the person who speaks the loudest who gets the most attention rather than the one who makes the most sense. I guess that's nothing new really, I'm just amazed that now even the anti-establishment anti-MSM conspiracy crowd has completely fallen for it as well!

The evidence is in our own history & in this Information Age, much of it is a matter of Public Record.

Absolutely! But yet soooo many people still don't get it. I'm kind of a believer in the "Iron Rule" of Oligarchy anyway - but I think the only real way to stop it is to get everybody properly educated and aware once and for all. Yet even in the information age this appears unattainable. The masses always take the path of least resistance and the mob mentality constantly reinforces itself and just serves to further propagate more ignorance and propaganda. It's quite the spectacle, really.

Originally posted by deloneninja
We know we are being economically raped and enslaved by the federal reserve and bankers dude.

Really? Then why are so many people around here getting on THEIR side when it comes to the global warming issue. Yeah, maybe some of the opportunistic capitalists are still going to benefit from the cap and trade scenarios anyway but in general these people still play for the other team. Just like what happened last year - they want you to keep consuming more more and more. The global warming issue represents the anti-thesis of that mentality, understand?

Do something about it, instead of making another pointless thread telling people how badly they are getting screwed.

Telling them is doing something about it because the point of the OP was that so many people around here seemed to have already forgotten. But FYI apart from that I am doing something else about it - I have changed my life and my entire career path to go in a direction where I can now feel I'm part of the solution rather than the problem - but thanks for asking.

Originally posted by someguy420
reply to post by KyoZero

 

Global warming is really happening, in fact every planet in the solar system is warming, the hoax is that "we humans are responsible for it".

Ding!

My first customer. This is the type of post I've been waiting for

The whole "global warming is because of the Sun" thing is one of the most common MYTHS I see being constantly floated and regurgitated and reinforced around here like it's conspiracy theory fact.

It is garbage.

Please watch this short youtube video to help clear things up:

Click for Truth

[Note: I can never get youtube videos to embed anymore because when I hit "reply" some bug or something always tries to put a \ at the end of the video ID after - if anyone wants to help me figure that out, I would greatly appreciate it]


Back to topic:

Or take a look through Wikipedia:

The scientific consensus is that solar variations do not play a major role in determining present-day observed climate change.[45] The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Third Assessment Report states that the measured magnitude of recent solar variation is much smaller than the effect due to greenhouse gases.

If you want a more academic source just look at the ones they cited.

Originally posted by pauldamo
you still don't get it,yes it maybe warming up now, but its a cycle the earth goes through,that's what the scientists were covering up,the earth was hotter in the medieval times,and they fudged the data to make it look as though it was colder then,then it is now.

Whoo! Another customer

This whole medieval warming-hockey stick thing is evidently at the center of emailgate and a really hot topic right now, but what a lot of you guys seem to keep overlooking is the fact this controversy was already brought up and DEALT WITH years ago.

Again Peter Sinclair sums it up beautifully.

There was no longer just a hockey stick, but a whole hockey team.

Global warming, your footprint, you are needed to use LESS oil ,less gas, less electric, less of everything but they still want you to pay the same amount of money or more,for the less you use. maybe from now on we should say , global warming, SO WHAT, no i ain,t gonna pay.let the climate warm up,nice to have warm weather,melting poles causing rising water levels, great, more fresh clean water, more houseboats being built.well it could destroy your childrens future, our children have massive debts,maybe we will take more precautions into not to produce so many offspring.
i remember many years ago in uk, you had to pay for watering your garden, but during the summer months , you was told there was a drought, and so you was not allowed to use water in the garden, but you still had to pay for it, then there was story of one the top people of the water company was actually filling up his swimming pool with water ,even though there was a prohibition notice in place whereas you could be prosecuted in the courts,but not him.
maybe one day, when told to PAY,PAY, PAY,
it will be NO,NO,NO.
but then YOU get called , a trouble maker.

You all?! Do you know each of us and what we do and believe?

Originally posted by mc_squared

Originally posted by thenwo
Do you really think they would just start giving out these new technologies for free? Even if it is coming from a cleaner more efficient source, they'll still charge us for it. Why do you think those companies such as GE are jumping on the renewable energy bandwagon?

You're right, but again carbon credits and even renewable energy are not the be-all-end-all of this issue. Like I said before the real deal is learning to be less wasteful and more resourceful with what we have.

If we do this then not only do we benefit ourselves and the whole planet in the process - we also start to realize how little we actually need these jokers. THAT'S when they're screwed.

Agree 100%. We need to stop over consuming like we've been doing for the past century and start living more sustainably. I would definitely enjoy living in a cleaner world more than the one we're living in now. This planet is incredible and we can't destroy it for ourselves or our future generations. And by destroy I don't mean through global warming, I mean us turning this place into a toxic wasteland. If we showed them that they need us more than we need them, I think they're business practices would change for the better.