It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

WTC construction manager speaks of the resilience of the twin towers

page: 6
16
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 03:47 PM
link   
reply to post by ImAPepper
 


He trumps actual engineers who investigated the collapse because he was in charge of a bunch of firefighters?

Can you explain the reasoning on that again?




posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 04:53 PM
link   
reply to post by bsbray11
 





NIST concluded that damage would have had no significant effect on the collapse. Because it missed any major columns. There was also superficial damage on the SW corner spanning something like 18 floors, also no significant effect on global collapse.


And as I have said on numerous occasions, the NIST report was a best guess on what happened.

But then there is this on NIST....




The goal was to see if the loss of WTC 7’s Column 79—the structural component identified as the one whose failure on 9/11 started the progressive collapse—would still have led to a complete loss of the building if fire or damage from the falling debris of the nearby WTC 1 tower were not factors.


If fire or damage from the falling debris of the nearby WTC1 tower were not factors........

Well that would seem to suggest that SOMEBODY at NIST thought the damage was a factor in the collapse.....


Either way, the report was still a best guess.




[edit on 12-12-2009 by Swampfox46_1999]



posted on Dec, 12 2009 @ 05:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Either way, the report was still a best guess.


The first steel structure to collapse that way from damage and fire and all we get is a best guess? I wonder why we are still calling for an actual investigation? Best guess.
When they have subpeona power. I don't buy it. Real structural forensics includes studying the actual building components. Not "guessing".



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 04:49 AM
link   
reply to post by Nutter
 


And with the absence of data collection devices inside each of the buildings before and during the collapses, ANY report is going to be a best guess....Which is what we already have.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 05:30 AM
link   

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Nutter
 


And with the absence of data collection devices inside each of the buildings before and during the collapses, ANY report is going to be a best guess....Which is what we already have.


3000 Americans die under suspicious circumstances and you are offered a best guess and not only is it good enough for you but you go out to actively defend it? If your family was murdered and the cops just guessed, that would ok with you? I cannot even believe I read that after all your trolling here, you are happy with nothing more than a best guess. Pteridine hates the idea of facts and evidence and swampy thinks a best guess is juuuuuuuuuuuuuust fine. What true patriots!



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:57 AM
link   
reply to post by Lillydale
 





3000 Americans die under suspicious circumstances and you are offered a best guess and not only is it good enough for you but you go out to actively defend it? If your family was murdered and the cops just guessed, that would ok with you? I cannot even believe I read that after all your trolling here, you are happy with nothing more than a best guess. Pteridine hates the idea of facts and evidence and swampy thinks a best guess is juuuuuuuuuuuuuust fine. What true patriots!


The best guess refers only to not knowing the precise events inside each building during their respective collapse sequences. Dont act like other posters and read more into it.

As for the 2,660+ Americans and 320+ foreigners who died that day, we know exactly who it was that caused their deaths. The evidence (when you quit living on BS conspiracy theories) is actually quite solid.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 12:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

The best guess refers only to not knowing the precise events inside each building during their respective collapse sequences. Dont act like other posters and read more into it.

As for the 2,660+ Americans and 320+ foreigners who died that day, we know exactly who it was that caused their deaths. The evidence (when you quit living on BS conspiracy theories) is actually quite solid.





What evidence? The terrorists confessed after they smashed into that building or would that be a best guess too?

It is all best guesses and that is all you have. Well, actually you also have deceit. Any luck with those tree falling sections of building yet? I am still waiting.

Anyway, what is not a best guess then? I would love to hear all of the evidence that has been proven and confirmed sometime. Apparently the OS does not like things like that so it does not promote them much. When did the perpetrators of 9/11 turn themselves in again?



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 12:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

The goal was to see if the loss of WTC 7’s Column 79—the structural component identified as the one whose failure on 9/11 started the progressive collapse—would still have led to a complete loss of the building if fire or damage from the falling debris of the nearby WTC 1 tower were not factors.


If fire or damage from the falling debris of the nearby WTC1 tower were not factors........

Well that would seem to suggest that SOMEBODY at NIST thought the damage was a factor in the collapse.....


Here's you demonstrating your great use of logic again.

In that quote NIST is saying the failures they're talking about would cause the building to fail even if fires and debris didn't even happen. As in, they didn't matter in the end, according to them. They were irrelevant, given that column somehow failed, which it may very well could have, but not by the means they are suggesting (at least there is no evidence for it; it's a "new" phenomenon and they didn't recreate or test it).

You're trying to justify your assertion that the debris damage must have penetrated deep within the building (with what lateral force? where did it come from? leaning over?) by using a NIST quote where NIST says the damage was irrelevant. Nice.



Either way, the report was still a best guess.


And so are you and the firefighters saying that damage should have caused catastrophic collapse of the entire building. It isn't justified. A lot of other buildings there suffered similar damage from debris and worse, and still didn't collapse. If anything it was less weight the columns had to support. None of the main support was knocked out.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by bsbray11]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 01:06 PM
link   
reply to post by Lillydale
 



Lets see, pretty sure i've said more than once that I am currently using a government system right now, and that does not allow me access to streaming media of any kind. In addition, I'm currently 7,000 miles away from my home computer that has the videos bookmarked. Pretty sure thats been pointed out a couple times.

So, either have the patience for me to get home so I can post those to you or ignore me.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 01:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


So if I just start to make up crap then I can cry when someone wants proof that I am too far away to prove it? Nice tactic but I will leave that to you. I guess I would not be trying to push BS I know is not true if I could not even pretend to back it up.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 11:38 PM
link   
reply to post by Lillydale
 

Not sure why you can't wait a few more days till Swampy gets home, for him to provide his links. Seems after 8 years, with no earth shattering new evidence, you could spare some time. It's not like you have a news conference scheduled or anything...



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 04:40 AM
link   
reply to post by Lillydale
 


Well, seeing how it was a post I made to someone else that you jumped onto......

Besides, the truth movement has been making up crap all along.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 05:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by gavron
reply to post by Lillydale
 

Not sure why you can't wait a few more days till Swampy gets home,


Who told me he is getting home in a few days? For all I know he is not coming home until the wars are over. Was I supposed to be psychic and just know he would be home in just a few days?

for him to provide his links. Seems after 8 years, with no earth shattering new evidence, you could spare some time.
I am not the one that was making this absurd claim for DAYS. If he could not prove it, back it up, offer any evidence that what he is saying is true...then perhaps he should not have been so adamant about trying to put this point out there.

It's not like you have a news conference scheduled or anything...


Do you know that for sure? You know nothing about me or why I might want this info. So when a truther wants to say something, they are a nut because they have no proof of their crazy conspiracy but when an OS pusher says something insane like nothing was shot 500 feet, it just fell on a fulcrum that way...how dare I ask for proof? Interesting double standard.

Truthers need to prove any and every crazy thing they say and havent so they are nuts.

OSers just believe the OS because they are real patriots and proof and evidence are totally irrelevant because you guys are too smart for the government to pull one over on you so you can just say things without backing it up and we are just supposed to accept it as fact.

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! WRONG! If you want to make fantastic claims and even try to push it for days then you ought to be able to back it up just a tad.

[edit on 12/15/09 by Lillydale]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 05:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Lillydale
 


Well, seeing how it was a post I made to someone else that you jumped onto......

Besides, the truth movement has been making up crap all along.


Are you trying to say that I have not been asking for this proof for days? Yes, I jumped in because you have tossed a few lies all over the place and are not crying that you are too far away to prove it. You may have been talking to someone else in that post but you know damn well I have already been asking you to back up your crazy claim.

Swampy, why does it upset you so much when I simply ask you for some evidence of the insane things you say in support of the OS?



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 06:59 AM
link   
reply to post by Lillydale
 





Who told me he is getting home in a few days? For all I know he is not coming home until the wars are over. Was I supposed to be psychic and just know he would be home in just a few days?


To answer your first question...I did.

From my post to you dated 10 December 2009 on the other thread you keep bashing away on....




They were bolted and welded together, not forged in one piece. And for me to post the videos, you will have to wait a couple weeks till I am home and have my computer because I cannot access the sites here.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now, what were you saying?



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 06:35 PM
link   
One needs to ask themselves a few questions here when trying to respond to people like Swampfox46_1999.

First and foremost, ATS is a CONSPIRACY website. If he were so happy with the explanations given to him by whatever authority, he would have no need to be here. He would never have to come here for anything, as a matter of fact, clearly the whole truth has been given to us by the mainstream media. Why bother searching for the truth if you believe what is already been presented?

So why is he here? My first guess is that he's a plant, a shill, what have you. We could keep it at that, but there may be a few other reasons. He seems to need to claim that everyone is wrong here, so he may just be an egotistical troll that seems to want to refute others for some sort of kick. I'm sure there's a medical term for that.

Not withstanding, this user does not come with any specific credentials or new information, just hearsay and references to articles that have giant holes in them (that other, highly credentialed scientists and engineers have spent much time poking holes in - www.youtube.com...). He's pigeon holing certain aspects of the Tower's destruction, and having everyone arguing individual points while not taking the whole scenario into account. That's misdirection. Comparing 9/11 to the Titanic, that's misdirection. He's clearly very good at this technique, as it is working. (Hey maybe he should get paid for that. wink wink!)

Anyway, next time you see someone post something so ludicrous here, have a look around the site. You'll probably see they've made it a habit of trying to debunk numerous other threads as well. It's your choice to have people like this come to ATS (as they have been in ever increasing numbers) because YOU ARE RESPONDING. He is getting a reaction. That's what he's here for. To get a reaction, and misdirect. To mislead the argument. To reduce the topic to name calling and non scientific retardation. When you respond, you are validating his presence (and those like him).

I'm sure those of us who are capable and knowledgeable on the topics of Military, Physics, and explosives have reviewed the 9/11 story time and time again, and have come to the same conclusion. The official story is a lie, almost in it's entirety. You do not need to get in a *spitting* match with another user over semantics. This is not youtube. If you are not knowledgeable in the sciences, I suggest you educate yourself. Then you can sit back and watch with satisfaction when others try to argue about things they know little about.

In summation, DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. When you do, they win. It doesn't matter if they're a sycophant of some variety or a paid government agent; the result is the same. It degrades ATS as a forum for intelligent people to come and question unexplainable events or topics. These are the things that will turn ATS into a CNN blog lookalike. Please do not let it get to this point.

Leave the fools to be fooled again, by the media, the government, the military, what have you. They can then be surprised all over again when the economy crashes, or we suddenly have another war, or their rights get stripped away behind their back. The point is folks, if they are here as a professional de-bunker, they are very low on the totem pole; and they will have to suffer through all the injustices the rest of us do. A certain degree of sympathy should be directed toward them, but not a valid response. Anyway, have a nice day everyone, and please let's keep this site geared toward CONSPIRACY!



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 07:44 PM
link   
reply to post by oldmac
 


Aside from a medium for asserting one's ego, I think another common reason people who don't buy into conspiracies come here and post is because they intuitively know/feel that they are wrong in their beliefs and that there is a lot more out there about this day that they have yet to understand. So they are drawn here to argue with us as a sort of their conscious awareness battling it out with their subconscious realization that there is something else going on around 9/11.

Think of it what you will, but Carl Jung found this kind of behavior to be extremely common. People pit themselves against their own demons intentionally, if only subconsciously, just to evolve as people. I suppose the same could be said of myself, but for what it's worth, if you're going to try to analyze these posts psychologically anyway.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 08:45 PM
link   
reply to post by oldmac
 


There is a positive side to responding to Swampy and his pals, it keeps the debate going...

Personally when I respond to Swampy it's just an excuse to point out how wrong the official story is, so hopefully any fence sitters might be persuaded to investigate more for themselves, and not just rely on what they've been told.

We know Swampy works at the pentagoon, so it's a no brainier what his motivations are. We feed Swampy just enough to keep him alive, but not enough to make him fat or happy...



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 03:33 AM
link   
reply to post by ANOK
 



Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by oldmac
 


There is a positive side to responding to Swampy and his pals, it keeps the debate going...


This is a point that very few people seem to realize. I've never seen a conspiracy oriented web site that's so large as this one, and I believe the reason is that there's more tolerance of those who disagree with the idea that many things are conspiracies.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 03:35 AM
link   
reply to post by bsbray11
 


I think there's a great deal of truth in what you had to say there. I also believe that many people, from both sides of this debate, would like some type of closure over what happened, and this really isn't going to happen until both sides can -agree- on what happened.



new topics

top topics



 
16
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join