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Americans incompetent to fill jobs, corporations must import foreigner workers to meet demand

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posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 03:37 AM
One of the most tragic and lamentable characteristics of many "American's" today is their proclivity towards thinking in terms of how employable they might be. Throughout time there has been a phrase that has evolved with time and through that evolution, or devolution depending upon your point of view, the phrase has dramatically changed its definition. That phrase is "The American Dream". The American Dream is older than the United States itself and began in or around the 1600's when brave and adventurous souls dared to traveled to the largely unexplored continent of North America. Unexplored by Europeans that is, as clearly there were indigenous people who had no doubt explored the continent in which the lived. However, in the 1600's more and more Europeans began to brave the vast ocean to come to America in hopes and pursuing aspirations of owning land and establishing businesses that might afford them success and happiness.

Even today for many of the immigrants who travel to the United States, this remains the "American Dream" and can be evidenced by the vasts amount of small businesses found in such areas as China towns, Korea towns, Little Tokyo's or Little Armenia's, Thai towns, Little Vietnam's, Russia towns, Irish Communities, Dutch Communities and so on. These areas in metropolises across the nation of The United States are filled with immigrants who have traveled to North America and through hard work and effort established their own businesses in order to have their share in the "American Dream."

However, Google the definition of the American Dream and the first definition offered is by wordnetweb which offers this:

"the widespread aspiration of Americans to live better than their parents did."

What a dismal and hopelessly diminished version of an ideal that once brought the promise of individuals building their own personal empires. Today, for too many, the American Dream represents going to college in order to get a well paying job with some corporation or successful business. In other words, instead of being "the man" many have traded such aspirations for a well paying job with benefits working for "the man".

There is nothing wrong with not having ambitions outside of steady employment, but employment is not nor has it ever been an entitlement. People have the right to pursue happiness they don't have the right to expect it be handed to them. There have been many posters who have illustrated effectively the cost prohibitive prospect of obtaining a college degree in order to secure a job. It is simple math, if the cost outweighs the benefits it is a bad investment. Corporations can lay the blame on poorly educated graduates and graduates can lay the blame on corporations that pay poorly but blame is irrelevant. All businesses are subject to the same rules of economics and it doesn't take an MBA to understand the simple concept of maximizing income while minimizing outgo.

That simple equation should explain why corporations are more interested in hiring people willing to work for less than what used to be the standard wage or salary, and it is understandable why those who have a college debt to pay off are unwilling to work for less than what they can afford to live on because of that debt. Corporatism is a woeful and even nasty form of business that has bullied its way into prominence through extremely unethical and even illegal means, and to be sure corporatism is a part of the problem that exists in the United States today. However, the other side of that problem lies in the unwillingness of Americans to reject the corporate structure in favor of forging their own success by establishing businesses of their own.

Not that all Americans are guilty of this and with each economic downturn their is always an upswing in home based businesses and even more small businesses as people who were once employed by others but laid off or "downsized" by a corporation go into business for themselves. Not all succeed as it the way of the world but many do and for the better of us all. Americans were once praised for their vaunted ingenuity and I still believe to this day that ingenuity is present. Another part of the problem is that with each year that passes, more and more legislation is passed specifically designed to keep individuals from starting their own businesses.

I have lamented in other threads the intrusive licensing schemes passed by local ordinances and state and even federal legislative acts that demand some form of government permission in order to do business. This type of prohibitive legislation is outrageous and unacceptable behavior by a government specifically restrained from abrogating and derogating the rights of individuals. People have the right to flourish and prosper and they have the right to contract how they see fit and they do not need to ask the government they ordained for permission to do so.

There are year after year more and more obstacles put in the way of individuals that might dare to forge their own empire and pursue that age old American Dream, but at the same time, there are more and more opportunities that exist each year as well. For some a change in environment or economy spells crisis, for the those who are confident in their own ingenuity it spells opportunity!

The U.S. dominates the investment capital market with more than $28 billion dollars invested in new businesses and start up companies that totaled 2,550 deals in 2008 verses the $13.4 billion that was invested outside of the U.S. In just the third quarter of 2006, $6.6 billion was invested in the U.S. from investment capital towards 797 different deals. Outside of investment capitalists there are Angel Investors that the Small Business Administration estimates are in the numbers of at least 250,000 actively investing and helping start up companies in the U.S. The estimated capital invested by these Angel Investors ranges from $20 to $50 billion each year.

With so much capital investment available from such sources there is more than enough incentive in this current economic climate for many people to begin their own businesses. We are only slaves to the so called "Powers That Be" when we go into agreement to be their slaves. In fact, relying on the term "Powers That Be" seems to be the first step in going into agreement with serfdom or indentured servitude.


posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 03:37 AM

We are all, each and everyone of us, "The Powers That Be" and we are the masters of our own destiny! Not everyone aspires to amass great wealth and amassing great wealth is not a requirement to flourishing and prospering, but possessing the ability to improvise, adapt and overcome is. The ability to improvise, adapt and overcome is far more important than the ability to pass standardized tests, and the ability to reason is far more important than any specialized knowledge one might gain.

The proclivity towards reliance on specialists in this modern world, it in my humble opinion, seems to me has become part of the problem with the world today. The entire AGW issue is presented to us by specialists who will readily dismiss any one with the ability to reason and ask pertinent questions. The same is true in regards to many medical issues that are being touted as threats to humanity and anyone who dares to use reason to discuss the issue gets branded a dissident and denialist. Specialists from various fields are touted as priest class holy men and women who demand we worship at the alter of their special knowledge with their mystical incantations and prognostications of doom and gloom.

We have priest class lawyers and judges who specialize in a mystical language known as legalese that will readily roll their eyes and scoff at the layman, by law presumed to know the law, for having the audacity to interpret the law. While we are responsible for our own health we are bombarded with doctors and even more specialized scientists who readily roll their eyes and scoff at those who dare to presume that vitamins and herbs are beneficial to health and that healthy nutritional food grown from soil rich in selenium and other minerals is the best way to prevent illness. We are bombarded with pseudo scientists such as psychiatrists, and psychologists who readily roll their eyes and scoff if we dare to assert that spirituality and even a certain amount of religiosity can reduce stress and help us pursue happiness.

Instead, increasingly these so called "specialists" will demand we take toxic drugs to fix our ills, drugs that warn of a bevy of harmful side effects. Indeed, we are encouraged to take certain chemicals for our sadness and depressions that warn that taking these drugs may lead to suicide! Of course, the warning on the label is what makes it safe and sound as a method for dealing with sadness and depression. The scientific method, once the standard that made science such a respectable field, has now been replaced with a secret and mystical knowledge that only those in the know are allowed to possess and the rest of us, reason be damned, are expected to bow to this special knowledge.

It has always been, perhaps, a confusing and tumultuous world but this is why the ability to improvise, adapt and overcome has always been the hallmark of a successful individual. When the cost of a college education that offers far less than what it once did can only assure a lifetime of debt for the vast majority of those who obtain it, when working for "the man" only insures that we will never obtain a modicum of wealth and prosperity, when obeying legislation that desperately masquerades as law means agreeing to sacrificing our own rights in order to be "law abiding citizens", then reason dictates the rules of the game have been rigged to ensure a no-win scenario.

No-win scenarios are unacceptable. The prospect of loosing is never an option worth aspiring towards it is much better to loose knowing we had the opportunity of winning than it is to know there is no hope of ever winning. No hope of winning is the death of hope and the death of hope is death itself. While failure may not, indeed is not, a viable option we will in our lifetimes come to experience failure. However, failing does not mean we can't play again and aspire to wrack up as many wins as we can muster. Loosing seasons are the opportunities to learn from our mistakes so that when the time comes we can maximize those championship seasons.

When presented with a no win scenario it is not advisable to refuse to play the games and instead better to simply change the rules of the game so that winning becomes a possibility...indeed, a probability! I live in a metropolis within the U.S. that is filled with immigrants who seem to have an understanding of the American Dream that far surpasses that dream of second and third and even older generations of Americans. That understanding includes a willingness to work hard day after day, to create out of virtually nothing something!

I live in a neighborhood filled with immigrants who peddle their wares on public sidewalks in spite of the local ordinances that insist such behavior is prohibited and "illegal". Every so often I watch police officers arrest one or two of these peddlers and the next day I see them back out on the sidewalk peddling their wares. I watched most recently some government "inspector" march into a fast food Chinese restaurant and desperately try to explain to the owner that they could not use Styrofoam plates to serve their food in. I watched as the owner shook his head in wonderment and insist that he did not understand what the "inspector" was saying. This was six months ago and to this day the Chinese restaurant continues to serve their food on Styrofoam plates. It should also be noted that the owner speaks fluent English.

What that owner of the Chinese restaurant understood, what many of the immigrants who peddle their wares on the sidewalks seem to understand is that they can't be held liable for legislation they just don't understand. Why is it, hard working and well educated Americans who are second, third and older generation don't understand this? What happened to them that they some how came to understand the inexplicable? How is they came to understand they don't have the right to flourish and prosper and that they must obtain permission from the local, state and federal government just to survive?

We the People do not need to obtain permission nor do we require the approval of smug and intrusive bureaucrats in order to obtain our own version of the American Dream. We do not need to waste our times in over priced universities or moderately priced colleges in order to obtain an education. What we need to do is improvise, adapt and overcome. What we must do is flourish and prosper.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 06:36 AM
reply to post by fraterormus

I thought it was the illegal imigrants causing the problems ... that was supposed to be "CLEAR" too????

Ohhh wait the fact is people don't have a FRIGGEN CLUE, its corporate greed and political corruption, if its not one (illegal immigrants) villain its another (legal immigrants), you people really need to wake up and stick the label on the people it belongs too!!!!!

the problem is like the video I watched with the dancing bear and the people tossing balls at each other ..... when you watch the ball you miss the dancing bear!

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 07:02 AM
reply to post by lpowell0627

You can't possible believe this dribble "No country will be able to survive if eventually more than 60% of its workers are imported. Which is exactly what is going to happen if this cycle doesn't end."

I agree no one could survive a percentage like that. the actual percentages are FAR LOWER like in the 4% range.

but you have TO FUEL THE FEAR ..........

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 07:20 AM

Originally posted by concernedcitizan
reply to post by badgerprints

Why, exactly, is a weak middle class a priority for politicians, corporations, and special interests. And who, exactly, are these "special interests' ". Like it or not it is the middle class who pay the most taxes in the U.S. Why disrupt the money flow?

because the greedy corporations didn't think that far ahead, I have been saying this since 95', that the middle class has been systematically outsourced and that the end of US dominance was not far behind. follow the money and you will see its leaving the US quick fast and in a hurry.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by svpwizard]

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 07:27 AM

Originally posted by eradown
You also need to look at what is happening to engineering at the University level in this country. Seems like there are fewer universities offering Engineering as a degree plan when there should be more universities offering Engineering. Civil engineering in some of the technical Universities has been turned into environmental engineering. Water safety and testing really should belong to chemistry. Whose money is turning our state Universities into social worker training centers? Those who are deliberately dumbing Americans down(elites) are to blame in my opinion.

[edit on 3-12-2009 by eradown]

Sorry if this post wanders a bit but this stuff weighs heavily on my mind, and I probably think about it at least once a day..

This is EXACTLY what I have observed. The Engineering Depts. are getting their budgets whacked and their buildings allowed to crumble, while new football stadiums are built (OH but its ALL paid for by ticket sales...yeah riiiighhht).

Also - the number of people I have observed getting MBA's vs Engineering degrees is astounding. It seems like EVERYONE is a "Business Major". When I look at the curriculum vs mine (Computer Engineering) I realize why they change majors and get out in 4 years. Its EASY.

For the record - I have been in school 7 years and still haven't gotten my BS. However, I stared out in Aerospace and changed major about a year afterwards to pursue computers (my other passion). I realized the Aerospace job market, well, sucks (no offense guys). Shortly after changing my major I was hired as an intern at a major power meter / monitoring R&D center. I was an intern for 3 years and am coming up on my 3rd year as a full-time employee.

Yes, you read that correctly - I was hired full-time before I have even graduated.

I think the biggest problem at the College level is the lack of WORK EXPERIENCE IN THE FIELD OF STUDY before graduation. As it stands right now, I have nearly 6 YEARS of REAL WORLD experience under my belt in my area of study. I even have a Patent Pending as the sole Inventor!

I intervened some of my peers for an intern position a year or two after being hired full time and the lack of motivation from 3.8GPA students to get the job was astonishing. It's like they didn't realize the importance of working in their field of study before graduating - it was just another "job" and they were more interested in the vacation time. I know jobs aren't falling off trees right now, but we need to do something about getting people real experience and not so much theory.

Regarding Foreign workers...

I am continually worried about the H1B issue. A fellow worker (a freaking brain) worked for Cisco and shared his experience working alongside H1B's.

In his words: "they do EXACTLY what they are told"...

In other words - they take everything literally and won't infer or extrapolate a requirement to make the software/hardware perform as best as it should. It would just work, and maybe not that well (think Indian tech support reps). American workers were more willing to spend time with the design and make it work really well even if the spec didn't exactly call for that level of optimization. From his experience the H1B's were the "lazy ones" and NOT the Americans.

End this H1B crap. Close the 'effing borders until the recession is over. We have a catastrophic number of job losses in this Nation and the last thing we need is to compete with masses of automatons who have no vested interest in seeing America prosper both Economically or Technologically.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by ACEMANN]

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 08:08 AM
It's all part of the plan. We have no business, under any circumstances, importing even one worker until all born in the USA are properly taken care of. If we stopped all of these imports business would get behind proper education and training which should be free for everyone. This shows just how willing people are to stab each other in the back. I've worked with the Indians in the computer industry many times and they bring absolutely nothing to the table that isn't already here. The HI people work long hours, as slave labor only because of fear of loosing their status if there are any complaints against them and company after company take advantage of them for it. Many H1 people hope to sue when they get greencard status and can retaliate against the agency that hires them.

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 08:34 AM
Ugh. This topic disgusts me.

First off, American workers absolutely do need to be taught life skills in high school or college that will help them to better interview and ultimately better manage their business relationships and be more professional. I could write a book about my bizarre human resource experiences.


We were sold a load of BS about off-shoring manufacturing jobs and how ultimately it would be good for the world economy and the U.S. by proxy. Look how that has worked out for us.

Now corporations are in the process of off-shoring service industry jobs as well. What the hell will be left for cripe's sake!!?? I know of some insurance industry customer service employees that are - right now - training their replacements in India who will take over in January. Screw that.

I have watched my own company whittle down pay, benefits and hours to almost nothing. I mean to the point where many of our employees leave because it's hardly worth it. Employees have to have completely open availability but they are only scheduled for the minimum hours to retain them on the books with zero benefits and low-ball pay that is not even close to a living wage. Even those that were grandfathered in when we initially restructured have had their deals revoked.

It is very hard for me to look back at the last fifteen years or so and not conclude that this has all been done on purpose. For years there has been no real solution offered for the woes of our educational system, in fact it's more broken and dysfunctional now than ever before. Additionally, people like Pat Buchanan and others have been saying for ages that the trade imbalances and the decimation of the American manufacturing base would be our downfall and there is clear evidence to support that. Drive through any small town in the Midwest or South that has a shuttered factory and a darkened main street and you will also see dilapidated houses, old cars and nothing open but a Wal Mart.

It's a fricking conspiracy.

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 09:56 AM

Originally posted by fraterormusNow, you have even Bill Gates demanding of Congress that the number of H1B and H2B be increased dramatically because Microsoft is hurting and almost crippled due to US College Grads in Computer Science being next to worthless except in Beer-Bong competitions and modding their Computer Cases or wiring their XBox360 to their HDTV.

souinds like he preffers to be a part of the problem instead of a part of the solution

the " obvious " answer is to demand that the US degrees that he claims are worthless are scrapped - and replaced with qualifications that industry wants

or better still - as he can afford it - set up his own university program - that will deliver [ assuming students pass ] exactly what he wants

but that would actually involve doing something

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Detailed Perfection
There are other things that should be taken into consideration as well.

An example:
Companies in California can't find qualified American workers. Texas has a multitude of qualified American workers looking for work. But's here's the dilema .. John from Texas isn't going to just up and relocate his family to California. The cost of living is much higher. The crime rates are much higher. The public schools are over crowded and full of gangs, drugs, and violence, which is a direct effect on the quality of education that John's children will receive.

Should John move his middle class family from Texas to California to become a lower class family? My answer is No.


I like this post, but I must add something else. Texas has many schools which also have gang problems and drugs. Texas also has an antidote. In Texas, it is way easier to homeschool than it is in California. If California eased up on homeschoolers more families would move to California.

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 11:34 AM
reply to post by apacheman

What a ridiculous claim!

I feel like its just a form of cost cutting on the side of the corps.
I personally know of at least a dozen friends who are near genius with engineering, medicine, law, even molecular science, and after spending their life savings, plus being put around $50,000 in the hole from loans they're lucky to even get a minimum wage job. So sad, when only a decade ago my family members were guaranteed a starting salary of over 100k when they graduated just with a B.A. or B.S.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by WhiteDevil013]

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 12:18 PM
reply to post by Detailed Perfection

Companies can't find Californians willing to work for what they will pay.

If your Texan moved here, he'd find that the $7.25 an hour would have to cover rent that is double what he's used to paying in Texas, his utilities, food and everything else are likewise higher, but the pay is the same.

That's why those who are surviving are doing so by working 2, 3 or even 4 part-time jobs (full time jobs are few and far between); that's hardly laziness. Where I live we have several major universities who do a pretty decent job educating people; we have a much higher than average educational level here. But companies don't pay accordingly, because as part of the compensation, they commonly include "sunshine", i.e., the fact that our climate is so pleasant. They feel that for the privelege of working here, people should be willing to accept less money.

Then there's the fact that we are flooded with Mexicans (gardeners, hotel, restaurant, day labor, nannies), Philipinos (nurses, maids, nannies), Chaldeans (gas stations, fast food, 7-11s), Iraqis (groceries, gas stations, 7-11s), Indians (computers, programmers, other IT). The Indians, Iraqis and Chaldeans tend to hire family only and rotate the family members back and forth between the home country and here.

The Mexicans don't protest much because so many are illegal. The Philipinos don't protest because they're H2B indentured servants, the Indians are H1B indentured servants, and the Middle Easterners get government subsidies to come here, buy businesses and import labor, eliminating jobs for Americans.

As soon as your Texan got here, he'd discover he'd become another Californian too lazy and unmotivated to get a job. He'd also discover that his educational level was subpar. I've lived and worked in Texas, by California standards they aren't all that well educated. Nor do they work harder. From what I can tell, either I live in an especially intelligent and well-educated area, or everyone else really underestimates the American intellect.

Then again, maybe that's the problem: too many of us can add 2+2 and realize that if you must work your butt off only to go deeper in debt because the pay doesn't equal minimum living expenses, why bother? No corporation would stay in business if the expenses always exceeded the income. Why should a worker subsidize the lifestyle of lazy wealthy elites who refuse to share the wealth the employees create?

When I was teaching, one of the projects a student team took on was to determine the minimum living wage required to live in our area, counting only rent, utilities, auto and health insurance, and food. Entertainment was limited to free stuff: beaches, hiking, free days at the museum. Clothing expenses were limited to minimum required for work purposes. Eating out was not budgeted, no money was allocated for it.

Know what the figure came to?

$23/hr and change.

That was the minimum needed to have not an extravagant, not a comfortable, but just a minimal lifestyle. And that was ten years ago.

But employers with ready access to imported labor who thinks that living with only six other people in a one bedroom apartment is an improvement over what they left refuse to pay what it takes to live here. They just rotate new suckers in when the older ones give up and go home or into the recesses of the illegals. Virtually everyone I know now shares housing where a few years back they had their own apartment, however modest it might be.

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 12:24 PM
reply to post by WhiteDevil013

I think you missed the sarcasm intended.

Did you read anything besides the provacative title?

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 12:40 PM
reply to post by apacheman
A Texas engineer with a degree from a Texas University is not much different form a Californian with the same degree. Maybe you were not working with people who were actually qualified. People sometimes exagerate their abilities and educational background.

Still you are correct most Texans could not imagine buying a 500,000 dollar house on a 60,000 dollar a year salary. The best house you could buy in California with that salary would be a trailer.

Nonetheless , Texans fresh from college have been hired by Californian companies and they have done well in California. Don't sell Texans or California short. Texans are not as dumb as some people think, and California is still a wonderful place in many ways.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by eradown]

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 01:48 PM
reply to post by eradown

I was referring to the average, non-degreed person. I agree the universities there are just as good, and an engineer is an engineer no matter where he comes from, although some departments in some universities have some especially brilliant professors for awhile...while they're there, they turn out especially brilliant students.

I live in an area where we have more than our fair share, it makes a differnce. Few people outside California understand the effect of the community college system here. More people take more courses simply to better round themselves as persons and hone intellectual skills than you might think. These are not just feel-good pottery classes, either. Chances are good that if someone's taking a pottery class it's because they hope to sell them.

I taught in the community college system for eleven years, retraining lots of people for new computer-related jobs because their previous one was outsourced. I began seeing the same people returning for expanded skillsets every few years and the story was always the same: job outsourced or filled by an H1B worker. These were/are highly skilled, highly motivated people who eventually got the story that they were unemployable because they were now "over-qualified". They were advised to go back to school and get at least a Master's, preferably a Phd if they wanted a decent job. by which time they'd be too old, no doubt, for most jobs.

I get tired of all the ignorant/lazy/unmotivated talk. Try paying what it costs to live and you'll see tons of motivated people. The funny thing is that the same financial and executive types who think it isn't worth getting out of bed for less than $10 grand a day think others should be motivated by less than $60.

posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 12:06 AM
reply to post by apacheman

In no way was I trying to imply that Texans are better, more motivated, smarter, or anthing else above Californians.

I was just using it as an example. You could substitue most any states in that example and you would get the same result: People do not want to move to a different state for the same job where it would wind up costing them more to live.

We have got to do something to bring the skyrocketing cost of living under control.

posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:25 AM

I worked construction and mining and was payed more then engineers at the companies.

I have no degrees but am a skilled craftsman in a number of trades.
I am a industrial electrician, welder, heavy equipment mechanic.
generator and air compressor mechanic. electromotive equipment mechanic.
manual machinist, blaster. underground miner, mining equipment repairman,
firefighter/EMT. mill operator. heavy equipment operator.

I got most of my jobs in the last 20 years before i became disabled because I could work more then one trade and saved the companies from having to hire people in each trade when they did not need full time workers in each trade job.

The biggest problem with hiring foreign workers or illegals is safety training and rules. Most of them have to be watched because they will revert back to the way they did it in there home country when no bosses are around.

The rate of injuries of illegals on construction jobs is 5 times higher then americans.
But since most are afraid of being caught in the country illegally many of them will not report injuries and many companies will just call the INS when one of the illegals gets hurt and tries to collect compensation.
On may last mining job i was superintendent of a small mine and i did most of the mine maintenance and filled in for any of my employees that did not make it in for work. How many companies have a boss that can do every job at there company.
I did all the engineering at the mine. Why hire a engineer when i would have had to train him in doing the job because we used equipment and techniques that were old school and most of the equipment at the mine was designed and built 50+ years ago. most new mining engineers out of collage now would not have been trained on old and what they call obsolete mining equipment.
But to operate this mine with new style equipment would have cost a couple million dollars in widening tunnels plus a couple more millions in new equipment to work the mine.
But a few miners using track and mine cars that were already in the mine could work cheaper then any fancy high tech mining equipment.

posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 08:22 AM

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by rogerstigers

What field are you in, where are you located and what do you pay?

I've found that H1B and H2B workers tend to get paid less than prevailing wages.

I encourage people to finish the sentence:

"We can't find American workers willing to work."

The complete sentence goes:

"We can't find American workers willing to work for what we're willing to pay them."

The reason is that what corporations are willing to pay isn't covering expenses, especially educational ones.

You seem to be saying you find your all fellow Americans uneducated and unemployable. Of course, you yourself don't fit that mold. Please.

How many of your employees drain the money from our economy and send it home? How many use our taxpayer supported services?

You seem to be part of the problem.

Sorry for the delay on getting back to this.. I was delayed.
I did not mean to imply that all Americans I interview are unemployable.. and certainly not all visa workers qualify. I work in software development. My company pays very well, regardless of H1B status. For my part, I tend to lean heavily to Amrican interviewees, willing to cut them some slack, mainly because I have a hearing loss and it is much easier to understand them when they talk (thick accents are my downfall). That being said, we interview with a panel and I don't have sole jurisdiction here...we are only the first level panel. It is neigh but impossible for one person to wedge a candidate in or out for any particular reason.

So while I do understand your points, I would take exception at your comment that I am part of the problem. I have commented on this problem many times at work (and the fact that 99.99% of our candidates are male), but the problem doesn't appear to be our recruiters. The problem appears to be the current candidate pool. Most of the Americans that know their stuff (in my field) are aleady happily employeed in stable jobs.

posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 08:43 AM
reply to post by svpwizard

I'm not fueling any fear. If more and more Americans are considered to be "unemployable", and more and more foreign workers are imported to fill these jobs, and nobody in this country does anything to improve education in the US -- than the numbers I provided will become a reality. I didn't say tomorrow, but rather over time.

When sliding down a slope, if you do nothing to slow or stall your decent, you do arrive at the bottom eventually.

That is exactly what is happening in the US. They have been using foreign workers as the band-aides to fix the lack of qualified Americans to fill these jobs and have not done anything to fix what is actually causing the bleeding in the first place.

posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 06:04 PM
reply to post by lpowell0627

well the fear comment wasn't really directed at you specifically, but rather politicians and media, and how they send a message with the intent to scare their audience into voting or buying into whatever they are selling..

I agree that immigration is a concern but FAR LESS A problem than being given credit for.

as I see it, the problem since 1995 and ever increasing due to competing business with larger companies and the focus on the enormous bonuses for executives.
American workers didn't start out to be lazy! they were trained to be lazy, yes I know the proud ones will start cussing me for the comment but instead of cussing the messenger you should direct the anger at the ones who started the ball rolling in the first place, u voted for them and you follow them.

I DO NOT, I stood my ground several times in my career and in turn for the dedication to not being a sheep I was fired, held back from promotion, and pigeon hold in positions where I could do the least amount of damage.

Companies do not want people to be thinkers, problem solvers or motivators. they want DOERS, followers, people that do not ask why!
they don't care about customer service or company loyalty, they want disposable people and customers that don't have a choice.

look around at the length of time you have worked for your company, and do the math (the longer your there the more expensive you become to them in salary and time off), they want cheap labor and customers that can't go someplace else, and how do you accomplish that?

simple solution if you ask me, pay the executives more, hire less expensive employees and buy the competition, yes I know its simplified but the point is there. all the money you saved on employees and assorted expenses related to them you can now dedicate to buying the politicians you need with bribes / gifts or whatever there calling it now, and in conjunction with the motivation is to make sure the education system doesn't de-rail there plan ,they continue to cut budgets and mandate passing student that SHOULD NOT BE PASSED onto higher and subsequently graduated from school. Look at government programs that give assistance, they are designed to punish people for trying to improve there situation.

The problem in this case is TRICKLE down, change has to start at the top or it will not change, and all the whining and finger pointing isn't going to change the way its designed to work.

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