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UK jails schizophrenic for refusal to decrypt files

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posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:55 PM

Yes, if he was in the US he would be in the same situation. You can and will be found guilty of not cooperating with the police. Very, very wrong.

Yes maybe but the sentence would be minor. 30 days to 6 months.

From what it looks like that would be the least of his worries.
And yes i would never give up decrypt keys for something that would get me a long jail sentence.
Under the 5th amendment you would not have to give up any thing that would incriminate you and if this contains something like that why trade a couple months in jail for a life sentence.

There is one other possibility because he is schizophrenic maybe he does not even remember the key to these files.

It would be funny if the UK national health care system in the jail was giving him the cheapest and least effective schizophrenic medications.
It sounds like he has money to travel so he may have been on some highly effective higher cost schizophrenic medications.

in the US he would have had a lot of groups like the ACLU trying to get him out and prove he was being persecuted for being disabled.

i have dealt with a lot of schizophrenics when i was a EMT and many of the older meds are nearly useless to really control the disorder

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 09:34 AM
reply to post by Laurauk

The guy wanted to keep something private!! SINNER!

Does he not know privacy is Illegal in "Great" Britain these days?

They chucked him in jail for an "unknown."
No one knows what was on his files.

How long before they can chuck anyone in jail for this type of thing.

I mean,the police don't know if Gordon Brown has commited a crime,so lets lock him up too-Hell lets lock everyone up.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 10:15 AM
Tricky one this if they have a valid reason for wanting the keys yes I think legally they should be able to get them but it's not quite that easy.

Lot's of people seem to think Governments can crack anything I don't believe that for a second they can link all the cell chips they want together but anyone who is serious about it will probably be using multiple ciphers, strong keys and not commercial software.

It's pretty useless even forcing someone to give up the key in reality because there can be hidden volumes within volumes even if you got two keys there's always the possibility of a third or even fourth layer.

I think the only way to go about it effectively is going the trojan/rootkit route and stealing the keys as their being used anything else is ultimately probably pointless.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 10:54 AM
reply to post by Izarith

By your logic they wouldn't have any trouble opening these files. Why don't they then?

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 11:13 AM
I find the encryption bit interesting. When the telegraph was the main form of long distance communications, most businesses had their own codes. These codes were not so much for keeping information confidential as they were to reduce the size of the messages that were sent. (Western Union charged by the character). In order to use these codes, a copy of the code key or the codebook had to be registered with the Federal Government. The more things change, the more they remain the same.

[edit on 3-12-2009 by JIMC5499]

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 11:44 AM
What bothers me most is that this law can be used in an ordinary criminal investigation, which is a serious erosion of civil liberties & goes well beyond the stated 'anti-terror' purpose.
Still, he did not get sectioned for breaking the law, that happened a couple of weeks before he was due to be released after serving 1/2 his prison sentence, in the usual way. This tells us something: he was not violent or a threat to anyone, otherwise he would have lost some or all of his remission for good behaviour. Then again, jail is by no means the 'holidaycamp' that some people like to claim & a person with mental problems could very well have become suicidal. I find the timing a bit suspicious tho.
I agree that there was good reason to investigate him tho:
Traces of RDX - which I've read somewhere (Wikipedia probably) can be made by further nitration of a common product anyone could by without raising suspicion. He also had lab equipment.
"Devil Bangers" - I believe are made from fulminate of mercury, which was used in impact detonators during WW2. Whatever they're made of, they do produce an explosive shockwave on impact. IDK if that would set RDX off, but there could be a primer charge also.
Model Rocket - a delivery system?
I'd say there were grounds to suspect he was trying to make a mini missile. Something like that hitting an airliner's wing fuel tank on takeoff or landing would probably blow it up...
I'm not one to support authoritarian moves, but I'd say those cops would have been seriously remiss if they hadn't looked into what the man was upto.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 01:31 PM
This may well have already been done by some encryption genius,but is there such a thing as an encrypted drive,which looks like a blank drive?

I mean can you encrypt data,and then mask said data so the hard drive will seem to be unencrypted,but empty if you understand me?

Back to the case,Jack straw rekons they had to change the laws regarding the right to silence as a counter measure to terrorists who are tech savvy.

Which is great,until you think what if this guy did have something on his computer which could have prevented a terror attack-What would have happened then?
The attack would have happened,as they could not decrypt the files.

Wow,That Law REALLY HELPS Jack...Really effective.

So again,Labour have managed to rip up a major part of our justice system which worked perfectly well for centuries,under the guise of stopping terrorists.
And again,they have managed to create another law which does absolute squat when it comes to stopping the bad guys,but can potentially be used against anyone in the UK.

If I was a bent cop in the UK now,I would be rubbing my hands with glee-all I got to do now is bust some business CEO with sensitive buiness data on his encrypted USB peg,then im laughing all the way to my stock brokers office.

Imagine the potential for misuse of this law!!
Good grief.

Great work Labour,I gotta hand it to ya,you are consistant in your devilry...

[edit on 3/12/2009 by Silcone Synapse]

[edit on 3/12/2009 by Silcone Synapse]

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 01:37 PM
reply to post by Bunken Drum

op by Bunken Drum
"Devil Bangers" - I believe are made from fulminate of mercury, which was used in impact detonators during WW2. Whatever they're made of, they do produce an explosive shockwave on impact.

Good lord.Never knew that.I got through a fair size truckload of those things when I was a kid.

Fulminate of mercury-nice.
Bet thats reaaally good for little kids to be handling.(I know you are not meant to open them up,but all kids did that,to combine the crystals into a really big momma!

Oh well,I won't be getting any of those for my neice and nephew.

[edit on 3/12/2009 by Silcone Synapse]

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 01:59 PM
I suggest to most of you on this thread to actually read ALL FOUR pages of that report ...... I am not surprised that he was arrested at all.

As for being 'sectioned', it fails to mention under which section of the Mental Health Act he was sectioned under ........ It makes a hell of a difference which one is applied.

Incidently, I am a Prison Nurse and care for mentally ill inmates on a daily basis.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 02:39 PM
reply to post by Wotan

I read it.
You are right,if the chap was suffering from schizophrenia he was maybe behaving in a suspicious manner when interviewed by the cops.

That would be enough of a reason for the cops to take more of an interest...situation escalates and they charge him when he refuses to decrypt.

I can see why they arrested the guy,but the sentence seems counter productive.This case could have turned out very differently if he had declared his mental illness.

If he had,he maybe would have got some help in the first place.
However,The case does expose a total failure of government again,as I desribed in my previous.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 03:43 PM
reply to post by Silcone Synapse

It basically shows a failure in the Judiciary/Court for NOT asking for a Psychiatric report before sentencing/court reappearence. In my experience, having a Psyc report prior to sentencing is quite normal if the Judges/Magistrates deem it neccessary. In this particular case they failed the defendent - (I would bet, the Judge wont make that mistake again).

Unfortunately, it is then down to the Prison Officers/Prison Healthcare staff to pick up the pieces (possible self-harm, suicide attempt, odd behaviour), which i am glad to say, it looks like they have done and have had him sectioned and transfered to a place that is appropriate for him.

Hopefully now, he will get the help that he needs.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 05:17 PM
reply to post by Wotan

Show me where in th artice it has stated this?

They did not obtain a report from a qualified phsycastrist, they did not recieve a report froma qualified phsycologist. So how can they justify, obtaining this individual under the mental health act, based on him staying silent and not co -operating with the authoirities. After all the Charges against him were dropped.

The impression One is getting from ths article, is that they cannot get him under the criminal act, so they will use the mental health act to keep him under their scrutiny. That in my opinion is against this individuals human rights, and is disturbing to say the least. If they can do this, to this individual, Whom else is going to be in the firing line?

[edit on 3-12-2009 by Laurauk]

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 05:24 PM
reply to post by Laurauk

If you read the article in question, it does not say anything about him being sentenced under the Mental Health Act but under criminal charges.

It is only later, whilst serving his sentance is he sectioned under the Mental Health Act. This would have been done by a Psychiatrist working with Prison Healthcare staff. Once sectioned he was then removed from a Prison setting to a secure mental health unit.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 05:37 PM
reply to post by Wotan

Iam sorry , but I think they are just grabbing at carrots and sticks to keep him under scrutiny, afterall the judge did state that he was not a threat to national security what so ever. So they section him because he wishes not to disclose private matters to the authorities. I wonder if they would class me as a risk or section me, if I were to do the exact same thing.

Something very far wrong with this Government. I have written to Liberty, with regars to this article, I will post thier email, once I have recieved a responce.

[edit on 3-12-2009 by Laurauk]

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 05:45 PM
To get this straight. He was diagnosed with a Mental Health issue whilst IN PRISON, not by the judge or the court. He was then transferred from HMP into a NHS or private mental health facility for assessment/treatment.

The judge/court was at fault for not refferring him for a psychological report in the first place. If they had done that, then this case would probably have not taken place.

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 01:19 AM
reply to post by PsykoOps

Because they know he has nothing dangerous.

If they crack the files, which they very easily can do, they would look like fools for picking on some dork with weird hobbies.

But if they play the "We can't find out what he has, because we can't decrypt his super code" they can lock him up for the unknown.

It's desensitization toward being locked up for maintaining your silence.

Even if the guy was a total Terrorist bend on the destruction of man kind, which by the way the cops have dropped all charges on and classified him as none dangerous, he still should have the right to remain silent.

You copper-tops are so easy to play.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by Izarith]

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 05:23 AM
Ok so if he has nothing then why doesn't himself give them the keys and get away free? Or did he forgot them?

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 05:33 AM
reply to post by PsykoOps

Like he himself said, "It's the principle of the thing".

Some people stand up for the rights, even if they are taken away from them, others think it's crazy to do such things so the guy is now locked up in a loony bin.

Don't worry buddy, your perfectly sane.

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 06:34 AM
reply to post by Silcone Synapse

Fulminate of mercury-nice.
Bet thats reaaally good for little kids to be handling.(I know you are not meant to open them up,but all kids did that,to combine the crystals into a really big momma! )
Yeah, well as I said, I'm not certain thats what's in them. Still, if you look up mercury II fulminate its described as grey sand-like crystals that explode on impact... sounds like what's in those bangers, right?
They were called "Snappits" when I was a kid & yeah, combining a bunch of them makes an impressive bang. My point being that whatever they are, I have no reason to doubt that the contents could be used to set off the kind of charge found in fireworks, which would in turn set off RDX.

[RDX] is stable in storage and is considered one of the most powerful and brisant of the military high explosives...
It is obtained by reacting concentrated nitric acid with hexamine.
Now whether this man is a "terrorist" in the sense of working for some political agenda, or not, as seems likely since charges were dropped & he didn't end up on a rendition flight, I'm thinking that a schizophrenic in possession of bomb making literature, a potential detonator, a rocket, lab equipment & with traces of explosives on his hands, is someone that I'd rather see get a thorough mental check-up before he hits the streets again.
Or am I the 1 thats insane?

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 12:09 PM
There are some MAJOR problems with this that haven't been addressed .

Did he ever even admit that the stick is his? I mean if it was planted on him it wouldn't even be possible for him to know the "key" "aka algorithm" to open it.

Which leaves you ALL open to this type of "plant" .. Hell all ANYONE has to do now is plant a few encrypted flash drives . Make some false reports and BAM 6 months or more time in prison for nothing.

I download packs of "how to" and "for dummies" books all the time. I would say 10 out of ever 35-40 books is a "how to" for something illegal or at-least frowned upon .
I keep them all in case i ever needed information that may be partially covered in one of them .
Seriously . Whats next. Banning organic chem classes? Cause one studens in Uganda makes meth or some #?

Meh . If you cant prove an actual crime. Do some DETECTIVE WORK!!
Let the guy go . Follow him for a bit. Make sure alls good. OR not . then make a move.

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