What Does It Mean To Be "Free?"

Originally posted by GrandKitaro777
Freedom never existed on earth and the way humanity are doing things it will never exist on earth. That's the sad truth of reality.

I have reasons to believe slavery will persist in our after life as well.

[edit on 3-12-2009 by GrandKitaro777]

Perhaps you feel you deserve such an afterlife?

Just sayin'. I know I deserve better, far, far better. Besides, I'm sort of an afterlife anti-corruption activist. One of the ascended masters has it out for me. I'll shall expose the malfeasance to the others. Boy, he doesn't know what he got into.

I guess by now it has been exposed. Nothing more to do. The trial will not be televised, unfortunately.

Originally posted by Grey Magic
I am surprised I didn't see this answer yet.

/Cynic mode on

Death is the ultimate freedom, no more obligations to this planet.

/cynic mode off

/cynic mode off

Well, that's pretty much what I would say everytime in every post if I didn't bother to make up nonsense all the time.

/cynic mode on

Perhaps you feel you deserve such an afterlife? Just sayin'. I know I deserve better, far, far better. Besides, I'm sort of an afterlife anti-corruption activist. One of the ascended masters has it out for me. I'll shall expose the malfeasance to the others. Boy, he doesn't know what he got into. I guess by now it has been exposed. Nothing more to do. The trial will not be televised, unfortunately.

No I don't.

reply to post by die_another_day


What does it mean to be?

What does "it" mean?

You are thankful for your existence living on this Earth; that is Freedom.

reply to post by die_another_day


Superb question. S&F. This is perhaps THE QUESTION. We all talk about our freedom and them taking it from us, but what are they taking exactly? I think this question should be asked every member before allowing to this forum.

For me, freedom is a multidimensional concept. just like a 3D object has a height, width and depth, so does freedom have many axes. Each of them can be measured and established how much of freedom in this or that direction do you have.

some of those axes are:
- freedom of movement (peasant’s dream, they do not go beyond that if ever they get it)
- freedom of conscience (that's what you said)
- ability to act independent of your emotions
- ability to act independent of other people actions
- ability to do no evil (Christianity in a nutshell)

And so on. Hence freedom is ability to act/think. Ability = power. Ultimate freedom is the ultimate power. Depending on how you reach this ultimate power you can either enslave/destroy yourself on the way (Absolute power corrupts because you become slave to corruption before you reach absolute power, thus becoming a mere tool for something/someone else) or become truly free (how? now that's the question...)

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
My favorite understanding of true freedom is: Being able to say no without penalty.

Can I add to this by saying but simply Being able to become/be without penalty

Originally posted by SmokeJaguar67
This is a very good question and I am heartsick to realise that I cannot answer this question because in this reality I was enslaved before I had even been born and never knew what it was to be free after birth so I have no frame of reference to fall upon.

Very astute and wise response. Frame of reference ie the freedoms you are or are not aware of is of the uptmost importance when talking about ones freedoms available!

Originally posted by Alexander1111
reply to post by die_another_day

 

Being free is living without fear.

This is an aid to freedom but not freedom in itself.

Originally posted by blupblup
I like the clip at the end of "a song for Assata" when Assata Shakur is talking about freedom.

Freedom! You askin me about freedom. Askin me about freedom? I'll be honest with you. I know a whole more about what freedom isn't than about what it is, cause I've never been free. I can only share my vision with you of the future, about what freedom is. Uhh, the way I see it, freedom is-- is the right to grow, is the right to blossom. Freedom is -is the right to be yourself, to be who you are, to be who you wanna be, to do what you wanna do

Yes very true quote and surely should be faciliated and encouraged at every turn. We MUST make this our next reality and do so without impedance or hinderance.

Originally posted by Tormentations
You're only free when you're no longer on earth. Life is confinement.

One would think this but obstacles to freedom can be faught, it has been done before but we forgot the importance of it and dropped the batton so to speak.

Originally posted by americandingbat
Is there a difference between "freedom from ..." and "freedom to ..."?

I'm not sure that freedom can be defined simply. It seems so context-dependent and subjective, limited both from within and without.

You're right one is to not be imposed upon in the pursuit of and the other is to pursue.

Originally posted by plutoxgirl
We are born with invisible chains, slaves of the system...-
but we are also born with THE KEY-
to break free.

Freedom is a state of mind.

I am free and so are you- just embrace it

Yes, and the sooner we find out how to see and unlock the invisible chains the better.

Originally posted by Grey Magic
I am surprised I didn't see this answer yet.

Death is the ultimate freedom, no more obligations to this planet.

This is an assumption and cannot entirely be taken as truth, for this rabbit hole may go on for a while! For all you know we may be going round and round and being brainwashed each time we re-enter this or other similar type systems or worlds!

Originally posted by greenelectrictrain
You are thankful for your existence living on this Earth; that is Freedom.

Relatively speaking this smells of resignation to tptb. Not a heathly thought to take on board.

Originally posted by mushibrain
reply to post by die_another_day

 

And so on. Hence freedom is ability to act/think. Ability = power. Ultimate freedom is the ultimate power. Depending on how you reach this ultimate power you can either enslave/destroy yourself on the way (Absolute power corrupts because you become slave to corruption before you reach absolute power, thus becoming a mere tool for something/someone else) or become truly free (how? now that's the question...)

Some amazing replies, so cool. If I can add to this statement a little by saying you also fall short of true freedom in the corridoors of power through being deluded into accepting the level of freedom you are serving in. So yes folk deception and the perception of freedoms go hand in hand.

Freedom comes from within it is not given to you and it can not be taken away. If you believe what you say and hold true to your personal truth you are free. An innocent man jailed for a crime he did not commit is a free until he gives in to the lie. We put so much on they are taking or giving us freedom when all along it was ours to do with as we see fit.

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

It means to be bound by no limits to human potential even the words I type are limiting my view never mind.

IMHO freedom is nothing but a abstract concept that means what you want it to.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

I very much agree with this, it reminds me of a quote from the movie fight club:

'Only when we've lost everything are we free to do anything'

You are also free to do anything once you have accepted the consequences that go along with your actions.

I'll continue along the lines of Plutoxgirl, mushibrain and pharaohmoan..

"As above, so below"; which while being a clichée also contains a lot of meaning. How and 'where' is it we want freedom? From a petty boss, a social system or cosmic/transcosmic laws?

To take an example from the abstractions of ideology/religion: Strangely enough both the buddhistic 'compassion' concept and the christian-rightwing/theocratic/god's-soldiers concept contain elements of 'anarchy', freedom from rules.

In the case of compassion by optimally being 'outside' the rules, in the case of a theocratic hierarchy by being 'above' the rules. A lot of empty debate has raged for more than 2000 years, because often the involved parts really haven't understood each others' basic assumptions on this. Sometimes not even their own.

At a more mundane level: Social Darwinism DOES describe one perspective of existence fairly accurate, even in a cosmic context. If you know the rules and can use them, you are on top and thus relatively 'free'. From another perspective there are 'rules' superiour to Darwinism, and you'll be even MORE 'free' (in a deeper existential sense) by going beyond Darwinism.

For what it's worth, my opinion is, that it pays to have the basic options clearly defined. There's a lot of vague hybrid 'answers' circulating in these guru-infected times. The primary 'freedom' we have is to form our own opinions and continue from there, instead of passively repeating predigested 'answers'.

The aspects of methdology on this subject hasn't been much touched upon here, but is very relevant. There's a feed-back between assumptions, methodology and the 'answers' we find. A situation too complex for mental laziness.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

That about sums it up for my view as well. We're born into the matrix. Live bound by it's limitations. In a vein attempt to become something more, we fly off into la-la land. The dreamers suffer most, for the dreamers live a lie. Be true to yourself. Accept the pain of this world. Die a little each day. Only then may you experience fleeting glimpses of what freedom may one day be like for humanity.

Re: unityemissions

But you DO believe in e.g. the existence of computers? You're using one just now, reading this.

We can operate with 'relative realities', where we interpolate our way towards a higher degree of relative truth/reality.

Or do you take the flat earth model as an option on level with satelite photos of a globe? Does your finger hurt, if you hit it with a hammer? Even if the hammer really doesn't exist, except as a quantum possibility.

reply to post by bogomil


No belief involved. The computer is here. I'm typing on it. Hear it. See it. Slightly smell it (it's a bit dirty) . It's solid from this level of existence. It's real.

I think people are terribly confused when it comes to anything quantum. Why would people be looking to the quantum level to explain anything on this one? How does that make the slightest bit of sense? They both work on entirely different laws, obviously! That quantum probability is a reality on this level of existence. Both are happening simultaneously.

Fact: Nobody really understands quantum physics. Perhaps this is because we're attempting to observe it from the "wrong angle". So, I take all the new-age "science" based on most likely false interpretations with less than a grain of salt.


[edit on 6-1-2010 by unityemissions]

You know, I think all the people who will no doubt come to this thread and whine about not being 'free' should go and live somewhere like Zimbabwe or one of those countries where women are repressed or a million other totalitarian regimes. Or you could try being sick, poor and disabled, living in a country where there is hardly any health care.
But hey but it's completely up to you whether you want to feel downtrodden and oppressed, so go ahead.

Re: unityemissions,

Thanks for your answer. My post wasn't mean't to cut you down, but to establish a common communication base. On forums such as this I have noticed a lot of passive doctrines floating around, clashing with each other, often resulting in sandbox semantics.

To my point, which presently only is to be taken as a 'postulate': The concept of freedom, on a basis of variable 'relative realities', actually has a sound methodological expression, namely experienced transcendence. Experienced transcendence is possibly even better evidenced than e.g. science as it historically and culturally arrives at similar observations from somewhat different assumptions, thus being slightly less dogmatic than science. (Science has restricted itself with empiricism and has an identity crisis just now).

I take it, that the wellinformed reader is familiar with the concept of transcendence, so I won't go into details, but get straight to my conclusion. Transcendence by itself demonstrates a level of relative reality, where 'freedom' manifests. Furthermore transcendence and theoretical physics support each other surprisingly well on the important area of cosmos/chaos theory. How 'something' can be the same as 'nothing', positioning 'natural laws' (the organizing of cosmos) between the manifested (cosmos) and the un-manifested (chaos).

'Order' (cosmos, natural laws) is conceptually the opposite of ultimate freedom (no matter what level or realtive reality), but such order/laws CAN be considered not to be fixed constants, which from an perspective of changed awareness turn out to be only imposed variables.

The option of freedom can this way be seen as change of awareness.

PS unityemissions.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about the superficial quantum-mechanic interpretations. Even respected scientists sometimes go that way into weird speculations.

My own attitude is, that we for the time being must accept a contradiction in terms between micro- and macrocosmos, and make the best of the possibilities.

Though only being a lay-scientist myself, I have ofcourse also my own homebaked 'answer' on a unified theory, which hinges on awareness as the crucial factor. But awareness at a 'high' degree of relative reality/truth. Not the 'What the bleep do we know' fake-zen new age version.

Cosmic laws ARE observer created, from COSMIC level. No individual weather butterflies changes natural laws. 'Reality' is the constant, the observer's awareness the fluctuating variable, and butterflies and humans are minor players.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by bogomil]

To be completely myself, doing what I really want to do, while I respect other people.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by infobrazil]