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Black hole caught zapping galaxy into existence

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posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:16 PM

Which come first, the supermassive black holes that frantically devour matter or the enormous galaxies where they reside? A brand new scenario has emerged from a recent set of outstanding observations of a black hole without a home: black holes may be “building” their own host galaxy. This could be the long-sought missing link to understanding why the masses of black holes are larger in galaxies that contain more stars.

The 'chicken and egg' question of whether a galaxy or its black hole comes first is one of the most debated subjects in astrophysics today," says lead author David Elbaz. "Our study suggests that supermassive black holes can trigger the formation of stars, thus 'building' their own host galaxies. This link could also explain why galaxies hosting larger black holes have more stars."

To reach such an extraordinary conclusion, the team of astronomers conducted extensive observations of a peculiar object, the nearby quasar HE0450-2958, which is the only one for which a host galaxy has not yet been detected. HE0450-2958 is located some 5 billion light-years away.

Until now, it was speculated that the quasar's host galaxy was hidden behind large amounts of dust, and so the astronomers used a mid-infrared instrument on ESO's Very Large Telescope for the observations. At such wavelengths, dust clouds shine very brightly, and are readily detected. "Observing at these wavelengths would allow us to trace dust that might hide the host galaxy," says Knud Jahnke, who led the observations performed at the VLT. "However, we did not find any. Instead we discovered that an apparently unrelated galaxy in the quasar's immediate neighbourhood is producing stars at a frantic rate."

These observations have provided a surprising new take on the system. While no trace of stars is revealed around the black hole, its companion galaxy is extremely rich in bright and very young stars. It is forming stars at a rate equivalent to about 350 Suns per year, one hundred times more than rates for typical galaxies in the local Universe.

This is quite interesting indeed. Quasars now seem to be the artificial enseminators of the universe. Whenever i read these types of articles it makes me wonder about the white hole hypothesis. While this doen't say white hole may be the source of the matter in the universe it does seem to suggest that they may indeed have played a role in the formation of the universe.

If a quasar can inject energy and matter into a galaxy at a high enough rate to induce incredible star birth rates just imagine what a "white hole" which would be gushing matter and energy out at an even higher rate could do.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by constantwonder]

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:42 PM
Extremely interesting. We had discussed this possibility at school some time ago and at the time, the community was uncertain about the nature of black holes beyond their gravitic influence.

Good find!

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:44 PM
Makes you wonder if its not a very slow motion explosion where it sucks in nearby oxagen befor exploding outwards with massive force. Could black holes be sucking in all near by objects befor exploding the objects back out as a white hole. A super "Gravity Reversal" taking place?

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:54 PM
Nice find.

I've always wondered how black holes balanced the energy equations. It always struck me as problematic that something could suck up matter infinitely without it having to go somewhere.

If you place this in context of the multiple-universe theory, then it is possible that black holes in our universe are connected to star formation in another, that black holes are connections between universes, energy from one universe feeding another. That would explain where the energy goes.

Just thinking out loud, could be wrong on that.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:58 PM
Excellent! Thanks for sharing. I'd never thought about black holes as 'builders' before reading that article. It poses more questions for further research. You've expanded my mind a little today. Thank you.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 02:00 PM
reply to post by JBA2848

In very simplistic terms (how I think), your description seems akin to reincarnation or the Circle of Life.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 02:05 PM
this is great, black whole, white whole, seems more feasible, than just dismissing them as black holes or dark matter.


posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 02:06 PM
This reminds me of the nascent theories involving planetary and solar system formation - those that argue against the accretion theories in favor of worlds that are built from the inside-out, possibly by some formation of matter from the quantum vacuum.

I find all this speculation intensely fascinating. There has always been a problem with the gravity-induced-collapse theories of star formation, given that a compressed gas will gain temperature, and try to expand. Adding to that the comic-book artist slash plate-tectonics debunker guy who says that our earth was smaller in the past, and it has been growing from the inside, spreading the continents apart, I feel that the truth of it all has yet to be adequately explained.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 02:26 PM
Let me start this post by telling you I am not a physicist. I do however have an idea about parallel universes, white holes, black holes and their relationships with one another and worm hole formation

When a super massive amout of matter reaches it's Schwarzschild radius it froms a black hole, simultaneously a white hole in another region of space or parallel universe pops open. When this occurs you've created a black hole and white hole which are trying to reach a balance with one another.

This is the birth of a wormhole. The matter pours through the black hole and out the other side as long as there is matter to be had.

When space is warped by the black whole the density of space time is raised around the object and is forced to fuse (just like matter at a certain density) with a perallel universe.

When the balance of mass on the black hole side becomes equal to that of the white hole you form two quasars on each side where left over matter inside the wormhole flows out one side or the other. Now you have a worm hole. Or a fused region of spacetime kind of like a spot where two parallel universe are welded together.

If there is was no parallel universe for the mass to fall into space time stretches so much that it tears open allowing both matter and space itself to pour through the hole thus giving birth to a new parallel universe. Sort of like bubble nucleation.

Just a random thought

[edit on 2-12-2009 by constantwonder]

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 03:20 PM
I would still say not a worm hole between two seperate places be it time or universe, But a reversal in the same place over a matter of milleniums in which the same gravity spot reverses and expels instead of attracts. I think of it more as a magnet attracting until the magnetic force is to weak due to the mass magnetized and releasing its attraction to the mass. And just like a magnet the mass released would gain smal amount of magnetism them self from being magnitized by the gravity point. Giving planets moons there gravity.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 03:34 PM
reply to post by constantwonder

i would have to say i am in agreement with this observation of yours.

The swarthchild proton, and the GUT (Grand unification theory) states that there has to be a balance, either between dimensions or regions of space/time.

nassim goes over this detail about the black whole/White whole theory. its the contraction and expansion of space time.

You look at a star, your looking back in time, you as the observer see it, its radiation hits your eyes, you see it as a star. thats the expansion side. when you see it as a star and you confirm it in your mind, your recognizing it, feeding space/time helping create reality, by accepting its there. (contraction)

Its becoming more clearer everyday that humanity is on the verge of ascension into a higher consciousness.

EDIT: clarify

[edit on 12/2/2009 by ugie1028]

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