Yep the world is full of hoax rubbish including science. On icke, he is ok for some things, but i am against him on christian beliefs. I think christianity has helped mankind so much.

People want to live in a world where they are all princes or something, which is rubbish. Why do everyone want to be this big piece of rubbish.

I can never listen to anyone who rubbishes something that has been so good for humanity, as christian beliefs. This is my main thing on icke, and he clearly has not thought through what christianity has done for the human race. Its not the religions fault what america does, its people.

Your absolutely right about fake news, and its why i do not bother with it. There is always going to be slow news days. I think the story of those two gatecrashers, is just rubbish story.

Very interesting . . . good observation.

Originally posted by JonDeath
Not only can I prove he is a fraud...

You mean besides the fact he charges money for 'knowledge'?

This is like pissing into an ocean of piss. Protip: it's still piss.

OP proved that David Icke was a fraud? DUH! anyone with half a brain can see through any of this charlatan's other lies. All OP did was catch yet another lie.

The video info says her name is Arizona Wilder. Patsy Ramsey was no shrinking violet. She had loads of self-confidence and her speech was quite forceful. The woman in the video comes across as timid and unsure of herself. They may resemble one another a tiny bit, but I don't think it's her.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by JonDeath
Not only can I prove he is a fraud...

You mean besides the fact he charges money for 'knowledge'?

Like universities and consultants and such things? I never did like that way of debunking personally.
Of course it's possible that he's a fraud, for countless other reasons. Good eye OP

This is potential disinformation. David Icke isn't a fraud, IMHO. I think he is sincere in wanting to get the truth out, and I will defend the man. He has a right to do what he is doing, which is communicating information (freedom of speech).

Granted, you have to take some of what he says with a grain of salt.

That doesn't mean he's a fraud.

In fact, if anything, TPTB would like to silence him, I am sure of it.

IMO, Patsy's voice seems deeper than Arizona Wilder's. They do look uncannily similar though. Could Arizona possibly be one of Patsy's relatives?

To call someone a fraud you will need the kind of proof that will hold up in a court of law. I can't say I believe everything that David Icke says, but that does not mean he is lying or trying to mislead. It is possible that with some things he may simply be misguided. If you truly believe in something and try to convince others, that is not a fraud. A fraud is when someone deceives for profit. Its true that he charges for certain things and asks for donations. You still can't accuse him of fraud on that basis either. He may simply be trying to cover the cost of his website. Those things don't come free. I do question some of the things he comes up with, but unless one has irrefutable proof that David Icke is a fraud it is best to keep that on the burner until that proof comes along. You just can't accuse people of things until you have a real case. I have dealt with enough lawyers to know that. I am not defending Davis Icke, just presenting the facts in front of the ATS jury so to speak.

Yes 'arizona wilder' does look just like Patsy Ramsey, which is fascinating but that doesn't in any way prove Icke is a fraud. If she was a mind control victim Icke could well have been sincere in believing what she said and then putting out the interview. All it is, is evidence that these two women may have been one and the same.

I don't understand why people get all riled up trying to prove David Icke is a charlatan. I doubt that many of his critics have exposed themselves to much of his work apart from the sensationalist crap picked up by the media. His over all message is one regarding the eternal spiritual nature of the human being and he rejects religious dogma and the stifling influences of our 'big brother' governments. I can't see that as anything but positive.
He has said so many times that he is sharing information, he doesn't say that you have to believe it and he doesn't claim to be completely right about it all. Like all information you are free to take it or leave it. He has put alot of articles and videos out for free so you don't need to buy his books or go to his talks. You can even get his books at libraries so there is no chance of him profiting if you like! He's not conning old ladies out of their pensions or promising he can make the blind see.
Who knows, he could turn out to be the product of some MK-Ultra, Masonic, Lizard sect (I'm not at all afraid of admitting I'm wrong and I certainly don't regard Icke as some kind of infallible guru ) but I can still filter out the useful and positive stuff from what he has done.

Originally posted by JonDeath
My friends, that woman he's interviewing IS Patsy Ramsey.

Wrong. Her voice is different and her face is different. They may look alike but it's not the same woman.

I have no doubt Icke is a fraud because of his wild conjectures, his nonsense about shapeshifting reptilians and an old claim he was God (WTF?) but the so-called evidence you're providing doesn't prove anything.

Originally posted by heyo
Like universities and consultants and such things? I never did like that way of debunking personally.

Except that once your graduate you can actually get a job with what you learn at a university. Try appyling with what Mr. Icke 'teaches'.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Except that once your graduate you can actually get a job with what you learn at a university.

True. However, it's not like the way human sciences are taught in college these days our youth are actually learning useful facts. Most of it is just neo-Marxist propaganda and polemic which only confuses their naive young mings and twists their views.

Originally posted by andy1033
Yep the world is full of hoax rubbish including science. On icke, he is ok for some things, but i am against him on christian beliefs.

He's a good researcher. I never have bought into his reptilian stuff. I always viewed it as being more metaphorical for very bad people than literal.

lol i was suprised i though that this thread would just be a copy paste job of some of the stuff that comes out of Ickes mouth. Just listen to him for a while he jumps to the most illogical conclusions based off very poorly researched topics. To date he has provided no evidence that I know of to suport his claims.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by zaiger]

The point about half the people here seem to be missing is, there IS no Patsy Ramsey if I'm correct!

She just happens to be one of "them" and take part in these mind games and the brainwashing countless entities in positions of power use on the masses.
At the end of the day, most blue collar citizens turn on the TV and trust the people they are inviting into their home through this device, mostly have good intentions.

As I mentioned, I've caught other people used in multiple news frauds. Saved their pics and use some of the same techniques law enforcement uses to identify people attempting to mask their identity. Freckles, birth marks etc. are too unreliable as they can be faked or hidden with makeup.

Key things are brow spacing from the eyes.
Eye spacing.
Measuring from the eyes to the jaw line.
Measuring from the eyes to the hair line.
If you have ear shots, comparing the shape of the ears and canals.
Profile shots as they let you compare feature depth and nose shape.
There are lots of odd but incriminating characteristics and in my opinion, I found enough to indicate it is the same woman.

Who she REALLY is could be anyone.
A billionaire and Illuminati?
Military?
High league media production?
Nobody Actress recruited by the powers that be?
Undercover field agent recruited after retirement?

People need to understand that it's not simply the government manipulating and controlling our lives. Anyone within the entertainment industry can easily fake a story, that's why they have the tabloids-those assholes get PAID for those pictures and stories as it's not covered under the freedom of the press. I also know first hand, the Scientologists are able to get resources from any state agency in the country as I've seen them do it right in front of my eyes. I'm a musician, writer, etc. and have been around the business and NO, I don't mean for a film or TV I mean for their own covert intentions.
When the FBI, NSA etc. sticks a field agent into small town America, just what do you think they and their children are there to do?

The answer simply is, manipulate the kids socially, manipulate the community and ultimately, SPY on everyone through means that are absolutely illegal.
They also get a nice fat earful of what everyone thinks about this or that they stage in the news for the soul purpose of getting a reaction and judging people. It's also well documented that a lot of people working in our government and in political office, are Scientologists-another group I believe uses ridiculous lies of aliens etc. to cover up their true beliefs and intentions.

I will end with this.
I keep things secret that I've been shown to be staged in the media.
A certain kid I met online many years ago, just happen to be the son of a European politician which I did not know, until I saw them on TV.
A scandal in the media took place and it got heavy coverage for a year.
The funny thing is, one day I leave my house and he parks next to me in some very authentic business van. I look at him, he looks at me and I know damn well who he is and that he'll also deny it if I ask.
I get in the car, leave and pull up to the light.
A car pulls up next to me, I look over and who do I now see?
His supposed victim the entire world is searching for.
THEN, a certain actor everyone NOSE pulls up just after her and I realize, they have the same nose and just look very similar.
A niece, cousin etc. but, surely one of his relatives.

As I said, sociological experiments and the snob class spies on us to judge our character. It's not like the rich have much to do with themselves.



[edit on 2-12-2009 by JonDeath]

[edit on 3-12-2009 by JonDeath]