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AI or human being : They model an entire brain in a computer

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posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 06:29 AM
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What future will you choose for your family ?



Do you want to become an artificial intelligence ?



IBM's Blue Gene Supercomputer Models a Cat's Entire Brain



Using 144 terabytes of RAM, scientists simulate a cat's cerebral cortex based on 1 billion neurons and 10 trillion synapses.

Blue brain

WHAT Scientist, and science fiction writers told you ?



First : science fiction, is most of the time anticipation, because it is based on science possibilities, and facts.

Second : our "dream" become reality ( or nightmare). Yes , we have to dream one thing : before creating it.

Do you know that the "robot's" in science fiction are the metaphore of the people, the middle and working class.


( I will not go deep in this way but it appears that is was the same vision in us/uk/european capitalism, and URSS capitalism (communism is a state capitalism, the liberal market doesn't exist, even in usa there is protection of "state firm" : so this is just marketing. And do you think the freedom of the market mean freedom for people that will NEVER get auction ! ). The middle class, and working class are considerend as robots : i can add some famous quote. I prefer stoping here )

Do you know the movie metropolis ? Aelita ?

H G WELLS SAID : "The human race is at the end of the race. The mind is not able to adapt quickly enough to changing conditions which are faster than ever. We are a hundred years behind our inventions. This backwardness will increase. The Master of Creation is not in harmony with its environment. Thus the human world is not only bankrupt, it is charged, it will not leave anything behind. Attempting to describe once again the Form of things to come would be pointless, there are no more things to come."

And what said maybe one of the important scientist :

Norbert Wiener :

Progress imposes not only new possibilities for the future but new restrictions. o The Human Use of Human Beings (1950)

Any labor which competes with slave labor must accept the economic conditions of slave labor. o The Human Use of Human Beings : Cybernetics and Society (1954)

What are the risks




The problem of the evolution of technology is : it is not predictable, and it goes faster and faster. ( and we don't take in consideration that somehow technologies may come from nowhere or from the sky).

This may be the most important days for humanity : the beginning or the end ! Just in our choices : finally it is not about climate, it about the choice of what is humanity and how we may live.

If computing speeds double every two years,
what happens when computer-based AIs are doing the research?

Computing speed doubles every two years.
Computing speed doubles every two years of work.
Computing speed doubles every two subjective years of work.

Two years after Artificial Intelligences reach human equivalence, their speed doubles. One year later, their speed doubles again.

Six months - three months - 1.5 months ... Singularity.

Plug in the numbers for current computing speeds, the current doubling time, and an estimate for the raw processing power of the human brain, and the numbers match in: 2021.

source : yudkowsky.net...

THis is called the technological singularity. And this not science fiction.

And this is the timeline





posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 06:42 AM
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So what i want to say : the technological devellopement have also limits.

But with big AI, this will go 1000 faster to find anything.

BUt this also redifine what is the human race. (or this mean the ia will control or kill the human race , in long term view ).

Because human race could become more advance technologically with no ia. It will take longer, but this way there is less risks. THAT IS ALLSAID.

I want to be human, I think people who don't want to be human, or people who don't want to be what they really are, are the enemy of human race.

Scientist who creates and sells bad inventions, GMO, AI ... are my enemies.

Clearly : they will say afterward : I just do my job, that 's all.

The irresponsibility of scientists who are "just working". Examples of scientists who do their work:

* Albert Einstein and the nuclear bomb that gave the U.S., something he will regret the rest of his life. Before his death: "I made a big mistake in my life when I signed this letter"
* "It was war, it is justified there, I was a soldier, I must obey" Adolf Eichmann, a member of the SS (Schutzstaffel) to the rank of Obersturmbannführer (Lieutenant Colonel). He was responsible for the logistics of the final solution (Endlösung). He organized including the identification of victims of the Final Solution and their deportation to concentration camps.


[edit on 2-12-2009 by psychederic]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 08:38 AM
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Perhaps we are too scared of AI, if we don't want to cause it to advance past us, then we should quit working on it. And if we just now caused a computer to think like a cat, what the heck? What made them try a cat, I can't quit laughing at the thought of a huge computer with all this power going "meow" also, with this technology, does the computer still feel the need eat, sleep, etc?



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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The people doing this have no care for human life, i would not want anything to do with such things. But remember people that humans are being used and tortured for these techs to advance. You only see the surface, not the scum science people who think they are imune because they can do anything to anyone.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 09:29 AM
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This could be already enacted on a human level.
If the Military's tech is 40 years ahead of ours then they probably have AI soldiers.

Terminator Scenario anyone?



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 09:38 AM
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Google may have also the capacities ( or other big firms ).

Google is allready a low level of artificial "intelligence". The results are statisticaly calculated, google language is also based on statistic model ( and it can learn ).

And they have trillion of informations.

If google decided to go a step further ( you know to answer to wolfram alpha engine) : i don't know what will happen.

I am sure they will do something : google is primarly a search engine. And bing + wolfram is embarrassing.

And sur : an AI is a military advantage : what will you do if you can cracks any code, take the control of anything connected, and steal any bank ?

[edit on 2-12-2009 by psychederic]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by psychederic
 


Here's a movie that I would advise everyone to watch:



I would also advise everyone to familiarize themselves with Singularity and Transhumanism ... they are coming. Your only choices are to either understand it and participate or fight it/deny it and get swept away by it.

There are literally hundreds of sites/blogs on the subject, and indeed a lot of them paint a scary picture. Although to a transhumanist, the day when we shed biological limitations and evolve past them can't come soon enough.

Get with the program folks ... literally.


[edit on 2 Dec 2009 by schrodingers dog]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:13 AM
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But clearly robots exists for long time.

Keep in my that we have allready replace all works and transport with robots.

Human have been considered as robots, but they have their limitations, and they need to be payed.

A robot is buy ONE TIME.

You can get secretary robots, seller robots. etc etc. ( the tertiary economic sector could also disapear you know, like the industrial work ).







Drone is just like other tools, or even a robot ( or a human soldier)


Some exosquelleton :



( it reacts before you move )

The geek could get their robot wife, and robots children.

"
I want to make her look, feel and act as human as possible so she can be the perfect companion. So far she can understand and speak 13,000 different sentences in English and Japanese, so she’s already fairly intelligent. When I need to do my accounts, Aiko does all the maths. She is very patient and never complains.
"

DO you need more insanity ? I think we need to decide this rapidly. We cannot let the markets and scientits doing this stupids things.

If you disagree with me, and if you think the technology is cool, read and understand the Industrial Society and Its Future

THEN with the AI you will need no human at all, because it can think for you, and creates for you. (and you cannot control it : Tree laws of robotics

ANd i find : a homeless robot if you to get some money



The technology is an addiction for the human race : please be conscient ! We should stop our addiction and decide by ourselves !

[edit on 2-12-2009 by psychederic]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


I described an other way : the technologyes, the knowledge have limits ! And we can reach them without the computer intelligence !



Or if "most people accept" ( without knowing it) the singularity : the actual definition of "human being" may change ( and its not predictable even by transhumanist in fact )

BUT you know what their may be people that will not agree with this.

And the power of people may change radically : lets say you have the power to destroy a planet : i think an AI should hear you a little bit. (in fact maybe this is allready done with Et's).

If you can destroy really everything : i don't think any intelligence will try to convert you.

This is not cost effective in term of energy.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by psychederic]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by spaz490
Terminator Scenario anyone?


Do not know about that, but most definitely they have computers linked up to huamns stealing everything they are. How come the scientist that does the work, does not use his or her brain. They always go after innocent people to use, to steal from, that want nothing to do with it.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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whether the majority of the human race is ready or not, the singularity will happen.

did you know?




posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by toreishi
 


I don't agree with you.

We are the creator of our destinies, and their is not only one way , one singularity, but multiple singularity.

There are alternatives to what appears to be the singularity : in AI control world, corporate controlled.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by psychederic
 


you disagree with me but you agree that the singularity will happen. i don't get it.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 12:46 PM
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More on singularity:




posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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What if ALL biology is Artificial intelligence seen at a higher vantage point and altered sense of time.

i want to be able to create music by thinking it.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by toreishi
 


the "singularity" is for most people ( geeks, pro technology , transhumanist, and 99% of the population) something good.

But the singularity they describe is in continuation of our society. In fact they didn't realized the concequece of the industrial revolution, 2 hundred years ago. ( which is allready part of the process)

I say : let's take the decision by ourselfs, we don't need an AI. This is too risky.

I say : on this choice ( AI or not, human genetically modificatied, cyborg or not ... ) : this will conclude in at least two 'human race'. ( i am not a racist ) This is simple logic and facts.

The one who will accept the 'singularity'.

THe other that will not. ( and choose to be human too human )

I just point out that the first will not necessarly be more powerfull.

As for the knowledge, and the technological evolution, THE power has also its limits (power = miltary/political / economical )

I you think following what the majority is good, do what you want.

To become an Adult race, we need to get the capacity to say NO, to our technological libido, with our allways unsatisfied technological drive.

I don't think the first one is adult. It is concequently even more dangerous.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by psychederic]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 


You allready create things by thinking.

It is just that you want your brain connected to what you think will be even better.

But in term of energy : a machine consume a lot more than your body does. ( and your body can function with chemy, in its environment ) : It does a great job, but all thing are limited.

Yes we will all die.

I accept it. I don't know what is the problem.

I accept my limits, because there will be allways a limit, AND CONCEQUENCES.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by psychederic]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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I'll tell you this much, that massive array of equipment surely isn't using the latest technology, probably mostly stuff from the 90s.

You could cut that array in half if not more by upgrading all those CPUs to the new i9 (codenamed: gulftown) processor, 6 cores all running at 3.01ghz(if my memory serves me correctly).

Put it this way.

You have a 6 lane highway, and the speed limit is that of the autobahn.

There is little if no crashes.

That means for every lane, this many more 'neurons' can be processed, much faster.

They're trying to build a space ship with wood and plastic screws, no way it will ever reach a human brain's capacity at this state.

Basic specifications of this computer, currently (reviewed by me, source on wikipedia below)

700 MHz PowerPC 440 * 2 = 1 node
1 node capable of 5.6 gigaflops (5734 floating point operations per second, roughly I do believe)

divided 500 terraflops (sustained speed of the supercomputer) by 5.6 gigaflop nodes and you have roughly 87,200 nodes working to sustain this speed.



Now, my version of this machine, would look much different. Although not sure how the Power PC / x86-64 architecture difference would work, I believe it would be much more efficient at it's job.

Given to reach the same speed.

2 Intel Core i7 965 XE rated at 70 gigaflops ea. = 140 gigaflops per 'node'

500 teraflops running rate / 140 gigaflops node

-

3571 nodes.

Large difference.

Plus given the fact that these Power PC CPUs this bohemian uses are twin-lane CPUs, as in two cores per CPU, they would not come anywhere close to completing as much data as the I7 could(which you can conveniently build your own super computer if you have enough money these CPUs are readily available) given that they are 4 lane CPUs, the i9 is 6 lanes, and probably going to be the best performing CPU yet.

Also, in a application such as this blue gene brain, it is important to ensure your coders are coding their AI to multithread as MUCH as possible.

IMHO, flush that machine, time to upgrade. Now.

source


Blue Gene is a computer architecture project designed to produce several supercomputers, designed to reach operating speeds in the PFLOPS (petaFLOPS) range, and currently reaching sustained speeds of nearly 500 TFLOPS (teraFLOPS). It is a cooperative project among IBM (particularly IBM Rochester and the Thomas J. Watson Research Center), the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, the United States Department of Energy (which is partially funding the project), and academia. There are four Blue Gene projects in development: Blue Gene/L, Blue Gene/C, Blue Gene/P, and Blue Gene/Q.

The project was awarded the National Medal of Technology and Innovation by U.S. President Barack Obama on September 18, 2009. The president bestowed the award on October 7, 2009.[1]



Each Compute or I/O node is a single ASIC with associated DRAM memory chips. The ASIC integrates two 700 MHz PowerPC 440 embedded processors, each with a double-pipeline-double-precision Floating Point Unit (FPU), a cache sub-system with built-in DRAM controller and the logic to support multiple communication sub-systems. The dual FPUs give each Blue Gene/L node a theoretical peak performance of 5.6 GFLOPS (gigaFLOPS). Node CPUs are not cache coherent with one another.


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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Also, with modern technology it'd probably take a medium sized corporate office to create a human's brain using the best readily available technology we have, as of right now, q4 2009.

On my personal opinion.

It is imminent, inevitable, and damn down right needed we create artificial intelligence, immediately, in the direct process of creating human clones, surrogates, etc, but in the fashion of achieving faster data collection, analysis and such that a human mind is 'capable' of, and using computers to unlock these parts of the brain and such.

Any machine capable of thinking for itself, and developing technologies we do not have, is needed for the evolution of human beings, however, these machines that think for themselves MUST ALWAYS be contained to LAN, and cannot build onto themselves, but only work what humans give the machine.

You give a computer emotions, a human brain, etc, then you can damn right assure yourself that problems will arise.

I bet the first computer AI brain, will be named Einsten or something of the sort =D

Wonder why the preserved his brain....>_>



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by psychederic
 


If we become capable of such advanced technology (i.e. creating ai and creating virtual worlds on super powerful computers), then how can we be sure that we're not already living in a virtual world? It is the basis for the simulation argument.

The Simulation Argument

If a race of beings moved to a point where it was technologically possible to harness huge amounts of energy and create super computers to run virtual worlds, then there is a good chance that we are in one of those virtual worlds, or programs.

Let me make some conspiracy related connections:

What if our "program" is allowed to run until we are capable of the same technology? Maybe we're going to reach these capabilities in 2012 and that will be the end of our programming.*

*pure speculation for the fun of it!




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