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Ideology : The Reality is a Conspiracy

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posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 05:51 AM



Jiddu Krishnamurti

I think you shoud see this :

faith exist even if you are an atheist.

But a sheep that follow a stupid religion cannot understand that. YOU CANNOT PROOVE GOD, even just with logic, or probability.

THERE IS ONLY YOU who can CREATEs YOUR POSITIONS, your faith, your "believe system" , your god. Do you need to be a sheep ? DO you need to believe like the other believe, sorry this is stupid ( even more if the common believe system is stupid )

What are gods ? The community ? God, the state, money, technologies , and all ideologies ?

Are you (we) beyond ideology ?

You see the point is "what we believe" is not the point, because we will believe necessarely in something ( or a way of thinking).

BECAUSE we need to define ourselfs, a little.

That being said : what is the best "believes system" ?

Humanism ? Holism

Or religion, conservatism, racism , war ?

The question of god : is to esoteric , or metaphysic. ( you cannot answer to it, or you will say "like the community", you will conservative, in a defensive position )

You should let this question to after your dead , if there is something.

Spirituality is important for human being. Maybe "god" is spirituality : maybe it as allways been it : deeply. But most people don't understand the profound fact.

You see i don't say : there is no god we can do whatever we want.

NO. I don't care of "gods"/ believe system.

A human with no culture will understand what is good and what is not.

Mod Edit: Removed all caps title.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Gemwolf]

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 06:49 AM
Even when J.K himself may have said that don't listen to anybody, people should listen to him, even it sounds contradictory. He certainly has a point on religions and belief systems.

Also, another good one comes from U.G Krishnamurti (that isn't relative to Jiddu Krishnamurti) - altho he attended some speeches given by the latter, and while he has slightly different way to put his message out (by the way, he said he had no message), he seems to be on point in various matters. Here is a short interview by Iain McNay:

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:


posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 06:58 AM
That part true, but he has always said to not to take him as a god.

When a people speak to other people : a became a "leader", that "natural" for human being, it is human to human !

I don't agree with him in all points, but on the spirituality / ideologies he is really good.

I will search how the school based on his way of thinking , works today.

And to me he is really important with nietzsche, Zhuang zi and others.

I wish we debate about the problem shown by those philosopher in school.

This mean education. Education is not learning math, etc.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 07:21 AM
reply to post by psychederic

I like Nietzche also, he is an expert in philosophing with a hammer!

I think that natural sciences are education. What are not education are religion and history, which in my opinion are most subjective subjects which may not have reality basis at all. Of course, in lessons of religion, objective information about various religions could be teached, but nothing like we have to day, which is basically what Jesus did and performed miracles and so on; children don't have the capacity of thinking critically against this type of indoctrination.

Our education system really sucks. Our children are taught things like religion and philosophy, and not critical thinking! In school, there shouldn't be nothing but maths, languages, gymnastics, biology, geography - even history is questionable as history is often written by the victorious and can be very biased sometimes. Also social skills would be something to teach in school. But religions should be taken off the school immediately as a mandatory subject and to be replaced with lessons of critical thinking, which should be mandatory subject in every school. 5 hours per week at least! Also, free lessons should be available at least couple times of week, where children can do what they want: Play games, draw, play instruments freely or do whatever they want.

In my opinion, today's schools are institutions for indoctrination. Furthermore, the teachers are sometimes the worst feeders of that indoctrination; they effectively kill creative thinking and put everyone in their place for the greater good (which they have no clue about).


[edit on 2-12-2009 by v01i0]

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 08:36 AM
reply to post by v01i0

Whoa! You dont hear that stuff very often.
I agree one hundred percent, and I have said the same thing for years.

If you want to learn philosphy, and religion... do it on your own time. School should be logic, math, languages, reading, science, music. Those subjects teach you to come up with your own solutions. They also enrich your creativity.

I was so mad in high school. learning supposed "history". I would learn one thing at school, one thing by my own research, and then my family's culture/history said something ELSE different. How confusing!

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 08:41 AM
reply to post by InertiaZero

I agree, philosophy and religions are something that should be learned individually, or perhaps they should be voluntary subjects at least.

I wonder why the education system fails to take this question seriously - or maybe I am not just appreciating the value of indoctrination on sociological level.


posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 08:43 AM
reply to post by v01i0

I agree with you.

But : could you go a little further ?

Maybe :
maths, languages, gymnastics, biology, geography

are part of the indoctrination.

If we think about "school" we imagine , a teacher and students : but don't you think it is where the indoctrination begins ?

In the scheme of education : it is the scheme of Disciplinary institution. It is the scheme of the Totalitarism.

we should educate our children ourselfs, if we don't want them to be brain washed.

THe processus is simple, it is human to human. The children will obey to any adult ( the teacher / and then when they are "adult" they will obey to other autority then the supreme autority : the laws and the state) : and the children will imitate other children. What a dangerous tools but it is immoral !

I find a documentary about auroville ( well i knows the truth about auroville : but there are good ideas ). I don't know if it is in english.

A teacher tells you have to think, and it could be anything. But as you said it kills imaginations, personnality , creativity, FREEDOM.

In my entire life at school I find one or two good teachers. The other didn't know their own subject ! And students appear to be generally smarter, but they have to keep quite, and don't show that their tearcher, and the system itself is stupid and immoral

[edit on 2-12-2009 by psychederic]

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 08:55 AM
reply to post by psychederic

Yeah, education in natural science can be form of indoctrination if they are harnessed to serve the system, for example: All the maths are done in respect of the society, i.e calculating business maths and so forth. But in my opinion, maths - as well as other natural sciences - are important if they serve the right purpose.

Often all this boils down to the teachers; as you said, there are not too many 'real' teachers, but most are merely puppets of the establishment. The creativity is mankinds natural resource, should it be suppressed too far, we find our society to be full of drones - actually, there are already those in alarming quantities.

And the word 'discipline' means order, as you propably know, and as Jiddu Krishnamurti also points out. It is indeed a reflection of some kind of totalitaristian way of thinking, to consider education as discipline.

By the way, thanks for bringing the issue up, it's a decent topic


posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 09:26 AM
John Carpenter's They Live (1988) ( as mentioned )

posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 08:49 AM
Here we are, talking about what they should teach in schools, when some schools dont teach anything to anyone. I know I had a few classes like that in HS.

In some countries, you have a choice as to what school you attend in the public system. That makes competition between schools. Which makes their curriculum better. Teachers recieve competitive pay, benefits, ETC.

In the US, your only option for better education is private schools. They dont have to be good, because there is no motivation to be the best. No competitive pay. Heck, look up what it takes to fire a teacher in the US. Its nearly impossible, even if they break rules and do not adhere to a strick curriculum.

Maybe is the US had a system based on competition, instead of "Heres where you live, thats where you go to school. No choice" we wouldnt have High school graduates that CANT READ.

posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 03:28 AM
This is apparently the same in every country : the salary is a small factor anyway, this a systemic problem. ( the professor will be the tutor, the father /god, etc)

My opinion is that we should create a system where children learn some basic thing, but they have do learn the rest by themself.

This is done in australia. In our country they are "10" hour in school : doing nothing : but they allways have to OBEY (this is the systemic problem)

If children are overexited : this is because of television, video games ...And because they imitate other children.

One alternative could be education over internet : wikiversity.

(and we speak about onelaptopperchild, but in our advance country all children don't have acces to the internet )

The second problem it is about the children.

Your children are 'yours' or they are the children of the state ?

If they are "educated" by the state , and just a little by you ( and you don't have the time to do it, this is part of the designed system) : are they your 'child' ?


Not in term of culture, reflection etc. ( this is part the parents faults, but they didn't understand this : because they also cannot understand the concequences )

There are lot of concequences to this : psychological neoteny ( nobody talled "you" how to be a man, or woman, so you are not "psychologicaly adult", and you are lost, you got psychological trouble, or you think in term of ideology (this is easier), and you even don't understand politics, economy etc ...

( but they gave you the right to "think" and to "speak" : cool but you don't how to think , how to reason , so your speak, and you action will be NOTHING.

This books for instance should be in our education system for a 11 years old child :
The logic, and the propositionnal logic and
The Art of Being Right, schopenhauer.

[edit on 5-12-2009 by psychederic]

[edit on 5-12-2009 by psychederic]

[edit on 5-12-2009 by psychederic]

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