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The war between religion and athiesm

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posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


So, with that logic: Is a Christian who denies that Bhrama, Hecate or whoever as false. Do they have a subset religion because they do not believe in them?

Do I have a religion that says "My foot did not create the universe"?

Because I disagree with the Jim Jones cult.. am I part of a religion that denies him?




posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by lordtyp0
 


you missed the part where it says especially, I think that because it says that it means that the universe doesn't have to be considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies. So therefor atheism is a religion just not especially one.
Btw Venture Bros is the shizznit.



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by MIMRblazin
 





Religion has done nothing but cause wars and conflicts since the beginning of time.


All righty then let's get on with it shall we:

Billions of years ago, a big bang produced a large rock. As the rock cooled,
a sweet brown liquid cooled on it's surface. As time passed, aluminum
formed its self into a can, a lid and a tab.
millions of years later, red and white paint fell from the sky upon the can
and by sheer luck, the words Coca Cola 12 fld ounces were formed.

Of course, my theory is an insult to your intellect, because you know
that if the coke can is made, there must be a maker. If it is designed there must be a designer. The alternative, that it happened by chance or by accident, moves us into an intellectual free zone.

Do atheists hate bananas?

Bananas are shaped for the human hand and has a non slip surface. It has outside indicators of inward content

Green -to early
Yellow =just right
Black =to late

Comes in a wrapper, has a tab for removal of the wrapper and it's biodegradable. The banana is also shaped for the human mouth, pointed
at both ends for easy entry and is pleasing to the taste buds. It even curves for easy entry.

To say the banana happened by accident can not be considered an intelligent statement. To say that no one designed the
coke can is a bit more intelligent than that.

The person who thinks the coke can has no designer is

A. Intelligent

B. a fool

C. has an ulterior motive for denying the obvious.



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by lordtyp0
reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


So, with that logic: Is a Christian who denies that Bhrama, Hecate or whoever as false. Do they have a subset religion because they do not believe in them?


Not at all, for one Christians tend to believe in god right? Atheism is completely opposite that.



Do I have a religion that says "My foot did not create the universe"?


Lol, no but if you're going to start your own religion on this, can I join?



Because I disagree with the Jim Jones cult.. am I part of a religion that denies him?


No, unless there is a religion which requires you to worship the a god, whos sole purpose was to prove Jim Jones was a false prophet, charlatan etc, and you had rules and commandments to follow



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by lordtyp0
reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


So, with that logic: Is a Christian who denies that Bhrama, Hecate or whoever as false. Do they have a subset religion because they do not believe in them?


Not at all, for one Christians tend to believe in god right? Atheism is completely opposite that.



Do I have a religion that says "My foot did not create the universe"?


Lol, no but if you're going to start your own religion on this, can I join?



Because I disagree with the Jim Jones cult.. am I part of a religion that denies him?


No, unless there is a religion which requires you to worship the a god, whos sole purpose was to prove Jim Jones was a false prophet, charlatan etc, and you had rules and commandments to follow


Sure on the foot, I accept pay-pal tithing


The part about : "Not at all, for one Christians tend to believe in god right? Atheism is completely opposite that." .. Atheists do not target any specific deity. They simply regard all religious or supernatural items as explainations that went arry, or perhaps on par with Santa Clause. It isnt just about God per se. Though "Atheism" literaly means something like "no deity" (too lazy to lookup
), it is more that there is no supernatural anything.
With your comment on requiring to worship a god. That is pretty much the central point of a religion. Atheists do not have tenets which say "There is not god" that part is simply a conclusion of the idea that there is no supernatural.. well IMO.



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


No what I meant was what is your beliefs on the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe? just because you don't have religious practices or meetings and whatnot doesn't mean it's not a religion. We can agree that all atheists base their beliefs on science even if it is not fact right?
But I'm not really sure maybe there does have to be some sort of religious practice of some sort, I guess if that is the case I could argue that the scientific method could be a practice. lol.

[edit on 3-12-2009 by wassy]



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by lordtyp0
Sure on the foot, I accept pay-pal tithing


Lol, what no bank deposit?



it is more that there is no supernatural anything.


That depends on how you define supernatural. I tend to class supernatural seperately from deities or gods, but still something that isnt bound within the normal mediums of the physical world. (so yes Im hinting toward a belief in ghosts, but not the occult)



With your comment on requiring to worship a god. That is pretty much the central point of a religion. Atheists do not have tenets which say "There is not god" that part is simply a conclusion of the idea that there is no supernatural.. well IMO.


Ok, we have differing views on what atheism is.....I am atheist, and I base it on no belief of god or any higher deity...but thats just my opinion



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No what I meant was what is your beliefs on the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe just because you don't have religious practices or meeting and whatnot doesn't mean it's not a religion. We can agree that all atheists base their beliefs on science even if it is not fact right? But I'm not really sure maybe there does have to be some sort of religious practice of some sort, I guess if that is the case I could argue that the scientific method could be a practice. lol.


Well, considering what I do, I am a strong believer in science. I also believe that there is a scientific basis behind everything, and I use scientific methods to prove facts before I make a decision. However, science can not disprove there is a god or prove there is a god. Considering I have seen no evidence of a god, from my way of thinking, there is no facts to prove his existene, so I dont believe in him.

Does that make sense?



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


Yeah man it makes total sense, that's basically my beliefs aswell except I consider myself agnostic, I also believe that humans have spirits and I believe in certain paranormal things and somethings I believe science just can't explain, who knows whats really out there or how the universe was made or why we are here on this planet and where we came from. Have you ever thought to yourself why am I here in this time period on this planet in this body and in this location I'm in when you think about it it took alot of events throughout history for you to have been born when and where you were were born. If that makes any sense at all, it's just something I contemplate every now and then.



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by wassy
 


Yea I try not to think about that too much. It kind of makes me think what existed before the universe....messes with your head bigtime



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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I know it's childish, but let me paraphrase something from BSG




If you let anyone change you, make you apologise, you know you're selling yourself out. Nobody ever changes.


Didn't it ever occured to anyone that there is a point in people having their own belief system in place? Apart from being programmed at childhood - people are... what they are.

My own dreams and belief were probably imprinted by... me. I want to be that way. If I want to be an atheist - that's what I should do.

What I want is people having a "dispute", like someone said here, instead of knife throwing.

The problem is people tend to think it makes much of a difference. Really - x-chains think they should help people find God/Jesus/whatever. Atheists think their mission is to help people get rid of the chains, the satanists wait for the "true" messaiah.

Sorry - but there is nothing wrong with dying without knowing, unless of course, you want to know. Most people just want to have normal lifes, almost everybody's got someone they love, to give their life for.

I don't give a damn if god exists (it does, but not in the common sense) and whether heaven exists or not (it does not IMO) or whether good deads are rewarded (they're not, see my own experiences, part of which I am solely responsible for, expect me to make a stand here).

I want people to love each other.

Sorry for OT, but I've met a wonderful being today. She was taking my coat while I was waitting to get registered for a doctors's appointment. She was so cheerful, she was smiling all the time and she always said "thank you", "good day to you sir" in the most sinsere way I haven't heard since ages.

I don't care if she wait for the Lucifer to come to earth. This week it's the first day I thought to myself I am greateful to be part of this universe.

Lately ATS was turned into a god/no god debate. I say it goes down the tubes



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by lordtyp0
 




Case in point: You cited the teacher saying that ID was making fun of religion. Did you forget it's supposed to be science and taught along side in Biology-at least in some states. To says something is not science, or that it is superstition when it is supposed to BE science, isn't mocking religion. Had he said the theory of aether was superstition.. would he be mocking religion?

It is a science class and he is a science teacher, ID is part of their curriculum or it is not. If it is he should just teach it as numerous religious teachers manage to teach evolution in science class even though it contradicts their personal beliefs on the subject.
Just stating that the ID theory is a product of superstition (saying it is comes from ignorance) without stating why would be doing the students a diservice. And if he brought up religion as part of the reason why ID is not valid another atheist could sue him because he was teaching about religion.




Correct on the not being able to marry thing. However most the religious claim "Hate the sin, love the sinner." Which at best is an offensive is an absolute lie. However to the faithful, a gay person can still be 'redeemed'. They are just sinners. An Atheist is actively trying to destroy their faith, and attack god. Since all that is moral and just come from God. They must be the embodiment of evil.


Hate the sinner stuff is really a christian things and the term religion is thrown around as if it means christianity.
So how are atheists being targeted?
From what i have read here, atheists have a problem with christianity (as most examples are only about christianity) and they make comments about religion in general and wonder why people get pissed when atheist make broad ignorant statements about religion that is not true about the reader's religion.
It is a flawed logic,
lets say an indian killed my child. Then i was to go on to say i do not like all people who are not white, all non-whites are _________.
That is flawed because i would really not like the man who killed my child and it would have nothing to do with everyone who was not white.

So yeah if you were to toss a bomb in a group of people you would be disliked for all the people you hurt not the one you were trying to get.

[edit on 3-12-2009 by zaiger]



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by zaiger

From what i have read here, atheists have a problem with christianity (as most examples are only about christianity) and they make comments about religion in general and wonder why people get pissed when atheist make broad ignorant statements about religion that is not true about the reader's religion.


Im an atheist and I dont hate christianity.

Thats soemthing that was put on us as a whole by Christians that hate atheism. Juts like there are fundamentalist Christians, there are religion haters out there. Please do not put all us atheists into the same basket because that is not a factual statement.



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 07:05 PM
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I am thrilled with the direction this thread has taken, for the most part. Debating belief in a higher power vs. non belief could be stimulating and enjoyable if we could all just cut out the name calling and respect each others beliefs even if we disagree. I for one am going to strive for a greater respect of all beliefs and non beliefs. I find it interesting and educational to see what other people believe. I truly believe civil debates on religion is possible. I have seen them.
For those that didn't like the term "war" I was mostly referring to the insult slinging.

Edit to reply to Ozweatherman.
I Fully understand that. Its like when I get labeled as a gay hater or a bush loving republican because I am a christian. I never thought much about it going both ways. Thank you for giving me the opertunity to expand my thinking.

[edit on 3-12-2009 by calstorm]



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by calstorm
For those that didn't like the term "war" I was mostly referring to the insult slinging.
[edit on 3-12-2009 by calstorm]


An insult can carry a devastating blow...



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by zaiger

From what i have read here, atheists have a problem with christianity (as most examples are only about christianity) and they make comments about religion in general and wonder why people get pissed when atheist make broad ignorant statements about religion that is not true about the reader's religion.


Im an atheist and I dont hate christianity.

Thats soemthing that was put on us as a whole by Christians that hate atheism. Juts like there are fundamentalist Christians, there are religion haters out there. Please do not put all us atheists into the same basket because that is not a factual statement.


Yes and my statement was intentionaly worded that way to make a point, and i never said anything about hating anyone.

Making blanket statements about a whole group large or small is likley to not be true

I find it ironic that your relpy referenced christians once again.



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by calstorm
 





For those that didn't like the term "war" I was mostly referring to the insult slinging.


Of course you were. I don't know about anyone else but I've noticed a big change just during the course of this thread. If it's just me, then credit
the fact I don't feel like there's a miniature doberman ready to run up my pant leg, everytime I make a post.

[edit on 3-12-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by MIMRblazin
science and logic wins. Religion has done nothing but cause wars and conflicts since the beginning of time.


And what has Science given us? Ahhh... Nuclear War, MTV and Global Warming.

— Doc Velocity


No....

Science gave us nuclear technology. Narcissism (self-worship) led to it's use in war.

Science gave us radio technology. Narcissism and greed gave us MTV.

Science gave us meteorology. Narcissism and politics gave us "global warming".

On a side note, people seem to always ignore the fact that the "human influenced global warming" theory is greatly debated by the "human activity has relatively little effect on it and there's nothing we can do about it climate change" theory.



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 



Well, considering what I do, I am a strong believer in science. I also believe that there is a scientific basis behind everything, and I use scientific methods to prove facts before I make a decision. However, science can not disprove there is a god or prove there is a god. Considering I have seen no evidence of a god, from my way of thinking, there is no facts to prove his existence, so I dont believe in him.

Does that make sense?


Yep, perfect sense, OZ. Clear, unambiguous. My beliefs differ somewhat from yours, but I have to respect a person who states their own belifs, and stands on them, rather than castigating someone else's.



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by MIMRblazin
 





Religion has done nothing but cause wars and conflicts since the beginning of time.


All righty then let's get on with it shall we:

Billions of years ago, a big bang produced a large rock. As the rock cooled,
a sweet brown liquid cooled on it's surface. As time passed, aluminum
formed its self into a can, a lid and a tab.
millions of years later, red and white paint fell from the sky upon the can
and by sheer luck, the words Coca Cola 12 fld ounces were formed.

Of course, my theory is an insult to your intellect, because you know
that if the coke can is made, there must be a maker. If it is designed there must be a designer. The alternative, that it happened by chance or by accident, moves us into an intellectual free zone.

Do atheists hate bananas?

Bananas are shaped for the human hand and has a non slip surface. It has outside indicators of inward content

Green -to early
Yellow =just right
Black =to late

Comes in a wrapper, has a tab for removal of the wrapper and it's biodegradable. The banana is also shaped for the human mouth, pointed
at both ends for easy entry and is pleasing to the taste buds. It even curves for easy entry.

To say the banana happened by accident can not be considered an intelligent statement. To say that no one designed the
coke can is a bit more intelligent than that.

The person who thinks the coke can has no designer is

A. Intelligent

B. a fool

C. has an ulterior motive for denying the obvious.


Just for laughs...consider that the human hand evolved to adapt to the banana and other useful items.
Does that mean the banana is in fact the chosen of God ? And mankind exists simply to service it as required ?

Every viewpoint can be opposed, the trick is to acknowledge that you have reached yours without undue external peer pressure. If you can then there is no war there are simply more questions to explore........



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by EdCase512
 


Wow, never thought I would see Ray Comfort quoted on here..
The bananas you buy in the store today were designed. Years of selective breeding has led to that shape.

this is a picture of a natural banana.

Just tossing out there



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