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The war between religion and athiesm

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posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 12:19 AM
I'm sorry but its just getting beyond ridiculous. I have been on both sides of the fence and its really not much different.
I'm a "christian" despite hating that term because it is so broad and general, and for the fact that I disagree with many of the so called "christian" beliefs. The thing is I see the atheists doing the same thing that they complain about christians doing. One might argue that christians should practice what they preach, but for most christianity is not a life style but a belief system.
From where I stand both atheists and religious people (for the most part):
Are to caught up in their own beliefs to explore others. Both are adamant that the other is wrong.
I propose that both sides take the time to put themselves in the others shoes. make an attempt to learn about as many belief systems. Even though I worship Jehovah God and none other, there are other gods out there that I find fascinating. I some may be rooted in myth but others may be creatures we have yet to discover truly existed.
There are so many misconceptions on both sides about what the other side believe.
It seems that it is generally accepted by the atheists that religious people reject science. I can't speak for all, but one would assume that if they are here on ATS They accept both. You CAN believe in science and God. Just because I believe that sometimes wrong doesn't mean I reject science all together. As far as evolution goes I think science has done the best of it current abilities, and as the knowledge of science advances it in time will prove whether it is correct or not but until then I believe there is error in the science of it.

I think the other big misconception is that religious people never question their beliefs and are blind followers. I don't know about others but I question EVERYTHING. I think that is why we have so many different denominations. I am willing to examine things and sometimes believe it or not an atheist will make a certain point and I will explore it and end up saying, you know what, the christians got that wrong. At other times I will explore a point and it only reinforces my beliefs.

All in all, my only real complaint with atheism is when one complains that christians try to shove their beliefs down people throat then they turn around and do the same exact thing. I have seen my atheists lately trying to convert people or convice people there is no god. Please in the one area I ask if you are going to complain about religious people doing this, don't do the same thing that you are complaining about. For those who don't complain about the christians doing this, than I am not speaking to you.
Other than that I respect the fact that everyone has the right to believe what ever they choose. Whether we agree or disagree we all need to learn to respect the other for what they believe.
I propose one last question, how will we ever grow mentally or spiritually if we don't question and explore our own belief system?
I am asking both sides to give it a try and perhaps we can begin to resolve the conflict and end the war.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 04:15 AM
Well basically I agree; although it is not a war, it's a dispute. In a war, people are going to get killed and infrastructures destroyed. But it is of little significance what you call, as long as your point is valid.

I think that this whole atheist/religion dispute is a manifestation of two opposite forces. What does it actually matter whether god exists or not?

Some atheist are claiming that christianity and other religions in western world are forced upon us - that is not completely true. We can choose to believe in them, but we can also disregard them.

I tend to walk the middle path, meaning that I don't believe in God, neither I do not believe that there is no God; I think it is an agnostic approach. It is often quite amusing to follow these petty disputes that believers and atheist are having - it is almost like arguing on which color is the most pleasant.


[edit on 2-12-2009 by v01i0]

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 04:30 AM
Nobody is ever going to change my beliefs (I'm an atheist),so i've given up trying change others beliefs. However If someone provided rigorous scientific evidence of a God ti would be interested, until that time I see no reason to follow a religion.

it is very difficult to change peoples beliefs, and in the most a waste of time.

the best thing about being an atheist is the possibility of having your beliefs changed by modern scientific discoveries. Using science as a tool to test new theories that may be presented.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 04:50 AM
reply to post by calstorm

Paul outlines the general reaction to the proclamation of the Gospel...
...which makes fools of the wise (reference: 1 Corinthians 1:17-25)

And the end time final global proclamation of the Gospel is immediately followed by the emergence of the 'Abomination of Desolation' (see Matt 24:14-15)

I understand that the reaction comes at the end when both the secular and religious unite with the demonic (alien).

So I think the current religion v atheism squabble is a side show to the real conflict...
...which I suspect will change once we have Disclosure.

[edit on 2/12/09 by troubleshooter]

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 05:00 AM
People fear what they don't know. People hate what they fear.
You can't simply get religious believers to switch sides for a bit to see the differences (or lack thereof) since a large majority won't want to or feel the need to.

Athiests confuse me. How can they be so sure there is no God? Everything came from nothing. Surely that 'nothing' was something, and a lot of something to be able to create a whole universe.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 05:16 AM
reply to post by Nventual

In the Gospel (death and resurrection of Jesus) God revealed Himself...
...Paul called it the 'foolishness of God'...
...God could have revealed Himself so that even a devout athiest would have to believe...
...but He chose to do it in a way that would alienate everyone except those who have faith.

1 Corinthians 1:17-25 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

God designed His revelation to make fools of those that think they are wise...
...and as a stumblingblock to the religious...
...He revealed His strength through weakness...
...and reveals His power only to those who believe.

[edit on 2/12/09 by troubleshooter]

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 06:40 PM
Atheists and Christians are at war? REALLY?

Nobody told me. Darn. I would've brought my machete had I known!

I agree the whole situation has gotten completely out of control, and I definitely agree that the management of this site should take a stand, and declare whether or not religious conviction is allowed in threads or not.

It's exactly the same situation as the question "Is nazism allowed to be propounded in threads or not."

After all, we have to ask the question - is ATS a secular site, or does it have religious connections?

Calstorm - it's a hot potato this one, good luck in your search for answers mate. Don't get banned!

The Para.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 07:00 PM
In the end, everyone has to decide for themselves what they want to think about existence. And in the end, we all die, no matter what "side" we're on. And that's the end of the debate. One way or another.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 09:25 PM
I proposed a solution to this that i think should be taken into consideration as i share the opinion that the almost hate filled rhetoric and name calling needs to stop.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by zaiger]

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 09:33 PM

Originally posted by zaiger
I proposed a solution to this that i think should be taken into consideration as i share the opinion that the almost hate filled rhetoric and name calling needs to stop.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by zaiger]

I agree with you. It is much better to use speech that actually helps whatever position you take. If the point is to attempt to convince someone of something, insulting him is not going to get the job done.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 01:29 AM
I believe in a higher power = a religion

someone else dose not believe = an atheist

Can either PROVE the other side is false . Really PROVE it ! no

Or can either side prove its right to the other side ? no

Both sides are dealing with belief .

An atheist believe there is no higher power and has faith that there is no higher power .

Belief and faith are the corner stones of religion .

Since atheism is based on a belief .

Atheism is a religion

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 01:33 AM
reply to post by calstorm

Dont forget agnosticism dude...

Agnosticism- The Sibling of Moderation

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 02:10 AM
I'm Lutheran, and I don't see it as a "war" between atheists and theists.

I see a few outspoken radicals who garner the media coverage; and, for most people, that sort of defines the collision of theism and atheism.

But, on a personal level, I see more and more people wanting to believe in something, but not finding much that captures their fancy.

I mean, we're teaching our kids to depend on government, but we're also teaching them that our government is fallible. We demonstrate that Mankind is eminently fallible, but we also teach that there's nothing higher than the knowledge of Man.

In other words, we're living in an era of monumental contradictions and hypocrisy, and people simply don't feel they have a firm foundation. They feel they're sort of blowing in the wind, there's nothing permanent, nothing reliable, nothing to fill them with hope. That's why they jumped at this clown politician who is our president, when he offered just the word "hope"...

People are becoming frantic for something to believe in.

You can't substitute God with Science... The concept of God is immaculate, omniscient, omnipotent, while Science is utterly and predictably fallible. Nobody wants to believe in something that is so demonstrably failure-prone.

So, I'm not seeing a "war" between atheists and theists so much as I'm seeing folks who are looking for answers, and looking for stability and looking for something in which to invest their trust and their faith.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 12/3/2009 by Doc Velocity]

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 02:37 AM
If it had not been for my out of body travel, ....

I cannot imagine what it must be like to be one of you, with your limited beleif's and faulty gods.

How scary it must be, to not know what comes next, to hope that what you believe is true, .... must be especialy frightening for christians, and their heaven and hell scenario.

... and although I could not even attempt to describe the complexity of the universe into words, .... just know the end is never in doubt, there is no hell, no vengeful god, .... there's just us, experiencing eachother in every way.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 11:57 AM

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst
I cannot imagine what it must be like to be one of you, with your limited beleif's and faulty gods.

Tell you what, astral-boy, if you can no longer imagine what it must be like, then you're losing awareness, not gaining. An expanded mind still encompasses and comprehends the world from which it originated. An expanded mind enjoys heightened sensation and heightened imagination.

Arrogance is for the closed-minded.

— Doc Velocity

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 12:21 PM
reply to post by Lostinthedarkness

Look up the definition of a religion, atheistim is not a religion.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 12:24 PM
science and logic wins.
Religion has done nothing but cause wars and conflicts since the beginning of time.

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 12:34 PM
I believe in sceince because at least they have the bottle to question them selfs as well as others.

However i wouldn't mind 'putting myself in their shoes' i would find it interesting as i try to keep an open mind about everything, however i could not help questioning everything that i hear and would like it to be backed up by fact, in a sceintific manner.

sorry if i am being ignorant about this but is religion about finding ones purpose and following a supreme being? surely worshiping anything that you beleive to be supreme counts as religion whether it be satin, a martial art master or anything, in which case why do we have religion because yes it is part of the causes of wars and wouldn't it be better to 'worship' who you want, when you want and avoid wars...

[edit on 3-12-2009 by SammR]

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 02:24 PM

Originally posted by MIMRblazin
science and logic wins. Religion has done nothing but cause wars and conflicts since the beginning of time.

And what has Science given us? Ahhh... Nuclear War, MTV and Global Warming.

— Doc Velocity

posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Nventual
Athiests confuse me. How can they be so sure there is no God? Everything came from nothing. Surely that 'nothing' was something, and a lot of something to be able to create a whole universe.

Well, how are you so sure there is a god?

It doesnt confuse me, as I realise people have different beliefs, the issue should be that both parties should respect everyone elses religon and way of life

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