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Secrecy is Repugnant: An honest request to Masons.

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posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Josephus23
What I will be doing is exposing these events and also who is involved, and if said individuals are Masons (which funny enough, you would be surprised to note, if you look through history, especially the history of banking, that the individuals responsible for instituting the policies leading to the fascist/banking/corporate takeover of our government are all Masons)

Emergency Banking Act of 1933

This policy was instituted by FDR, a 32nd degree Freemason.


Since you have displayed a fondess for the word bifurcated I have a new one for you, bicameral.

Franklin Roosevelt drafted the law, both Houses (notice the plurality) of Congress passed the law. Were they all Masons?

On a side note, I am not a big fan of many of Franklin Roosevelt's policies or programs as I found them to be rather Socialistic in nature.




posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 


No there are many religions dating back way before the two you mentioned if you can call freemasons such, cult maybe. Sadly you are wrong, when your right you wont get much debate from you target audience either way though. I have tried but the door is closed sadly, it would be interesting to strip away all the rubbish to get too the bones. It might be a great thing, if so why hide it but who am I too know..

Lots of things taste like chicken, does not mean it is chicken..



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 


Actually, there you are very wrong.

In the York right, to proceed a Mason must swear to defend the Christian faith.
As I said earlier, yes this runs contrary to Freemasonry itself, however it is a recognized appendant body, which means it is free to have it's own discretion, though it is still recognized by Masonry itself.

As for Christianity being the only true religion, that is your opinion, however Masonry itself is more of a compilation of philosophical principles than a religion, and one that itself does not offer salvation.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by Josephus23
 


No there are many religions dating back way before the two you mentioned if you can call freemasons such, cult maybe. Sadly you are wrong, when your right you wont get much debate from you target audience either way though. I have tried but the door is closed sadly, it would be interesting to strip away all the rubbish to get too the bones. It might be a great thing, if so why hide it but who am I too know..

Lots of things taste like chicken, does not mean it is chicken..


There are other philosophies that have been infiltrated by the mystery schools, which honestly you can interchange with Freemasonry, and then made into a religion mimicking the ritual in freemasonry.

Like I said, if you give me a bit of time, all these questions and more will be answered.

Until then a great place to start is this series by the late, great Bill Cooper:

Bill Cooper Babylon Mystery School Series

Also, I suggest learning a bit about the Noble Qur'an.
More so, learn about the system of the Dajjal, which has ONE EYE.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Josephus23
 


Actually, there you are very wrong.

In the York right, to proceed a Mason must swear to defend the Christian faith.
As I said earlier, yes this runs contrary to Freemasonry itself, however it is a recognized appendant body, which means it is free to have it's own discretion, though it is still recognized by Masonry itself.

As for Christianity being the only true religion, that is your opinion, however Masonry itself is more of a compilation of philosophical principles than a religion, and one that itself does not offer salvation.


Actually I am not wrong. And if I came across as trying to be preachy, then I apologize.

See Bill Cooper's mystery school series.

After listening to that, then we can discuss on more level ground.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 


Getting confused, you dismissed everything apart from the two.. Your statement not mine. Including the Muslim faith, Hindu, Buddist, Pagan etc

Your attacking a well organised group from thin ice, twenty masonic questions requiring direct answer would be more productive. You would see more dodges than the Matix then
The masons have their own private boards and methods of communication, remember that as well. Expect a co-ordinated response..

Don't get sucked into the personal emotional response, not easy but please try. Hey I have failed at that as well from time to time so don't take my open and objective view to harshly please.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by Josephus23
 


Getting confused, you dismissed everything apart from the two.. Your statement not mine. Including the Muslim faith, Hindu, Buddist, Pagan etc

Your attacking a well organised group from thin ice, twenty masonic questions requiring direct answer would be more productive. You would see more dodges than the Matix then
The masons have their own private boards and methods of communication, remember that as well. Expect a co-ordinated response..

Don't get sucked into the personal emotional response, not easy but please try. Hey I have failed at that as well from time to time so don't take my open and objective view to harshly please.


You are a truly an individual who obviously understands the depth of what I am speaking.

When I said 2 religions, I meant this:
The religion of the Abrahamic faiths and the "religion" of Mystery Babylon.

I count Christianity, Islam, and Judaism as one religion.
Because as one studies the Noble Qur'an, one learns that all of the prophets of Christianity are included in Islam (Jesus, Moses).

Polytheistic religions are a philosophy where the many deities are all aspects of the one deity, the Sun God of Mystery Babylon (Krishna, Christ, Horus, etc...). The reason for dividing the deities is the same reason for the many aspects of the Abrahamic faiths.

Divide and conquer.

I know what my enemy is, but when one has been enlightened to the truth how can one turn a blind eye.

I have seen several coordinated responses on this board.
And I expect more.

Shalom.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 


At the point of death people will find out if they backed a winning horse or not as will everyone, I don't practise any religon myself but I am open to all points of view. We are all only here for a short time, I would rather have fun and make friends than fight wars and make "money". No supreme being would cast a frown on that point of view so I feel comfortable that I have done no harm and offended no-one. I value humanity and it's potential which is massive. I don't need a secret club to do that


I cannot understand why as an example the muslim world and the west are in such a position. There is no need for it, human first - we all are.

You don't see Obama jumping over the desk dishing out a headlock at the UN because a Muslim has a point of view. Violence is just sad really, for the unable mind I guess.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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a persons life is not a mystery school even if events from that life can be gleaned as knowledge.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by Josephus23

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by Project2501
 


This is a quote from an ex-Mason found right here in this thread:


Oh! I see! A quote about Masonry from a never-was Mason! That's some compelling 'evidence'.


Perhaps you should go through the "Problem Lodge" thread and read the responses from actual Masons with an unjaundiced eye (if that's even possible for you) and wonder why HDFACTORYCERTIF was shown to be a through-and-through liar. Then reconsider why you think it advisable to source him as any kind of reference to Masonry.


I did read the threads, and he basically exposed YOU GUYS as the liars.

You need to read a bit better.


I was involved in that thread when as it was created. You clearly missed the part about the OP spinning an identical story with different characters and circumstances on a motorcycle forum.

And oddly enough, he's virtually never cited as a credible source except when he re-appears as laundry

And somehow Masons are the liars? You better brush up on your reading comprehension skills.


Originally posted by Josephus23
The framework of secret societies are being used to destroy this country from within.


Wow! A blast straight from the late, lamented 1950's. J. Edgar would be proud of you. Pity your 'facts' are about a half-century past their best-before date.


Originally posted by Josephus23
I sincerely hope that when the populist outrage in this country finally hits, that it is non-violent and Masonry is BANNED FROM GOVERNMENT.


I presume you're referring to the States. Then when do we move on to the Catholics, the Jews, the Amish, the Sinister, the Rotarians, etc? And typically such 'oust them all' movements are anything but non-violent.

You've watched "V for Vendetta" too often.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


The OP started the thread with should people in a position of power or responsibility be allowed to be a member of a secrect group without answer to the role they perform and to the public they serve.

Logic would say no as a conflict of interest "could" happen. Don't beat him up because he took the bait.

If you can argue against the point then please do, but the secret part will kind of restrict your justification as no-one knows what the "could" actually be. Just saying it won't is not good enough, this is the concern against all secret groups with the wider public. Common sense really, if your going to be secret, really be secret or be open it's as simple as that. Half and half does not work and causes friction as you can well see. I don't care what you do so long as the law of the land and it governace and justice are not influenced in any way. And don't say it is not affect by any secrect group because the "could" is a reality and cannot be denied.


[edit on 19-12-2009 by Bunker or Bust]



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 07:30 PM
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I can't stand when people say JFK's speech was about "communism," implying that it wasn't about the monolithic conspiracy to create a tyrannical one world government.

Don't you get it? The New World Order IS communism! So yes, JFK was talking about communism, he was warning us about the New World Order and the secret societies that are working towards it.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by Diplomat
 


"communism" was perverted by the few to what you call now commonly call communism. The demonic political system...

Did Russia invade and impose it and I missed it?

The real ideal was never imposed on you. The true and pure idea was about fairness and equality.

So please stop with the reds under the bed routine



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


The OP started the thread with should people in a position of power or responsibility be allowed to be a member of a secrect group without answer to the role they perform and to the public they serve.

Logic would say no as a conflict of interest "could" happen. Don't beat him up because he took the bait.

If you can argue against the point then please do, but the secret part will kind of restrict your justification as no-one knows what the "could" actually be. Just saying it won't is not good enough, this is the concern against all secret groups with the wider public. Common sense really, if your going to be secret, really be secret or be open it's as simple as that. Half and half does not work and causes friction as you can well see. I don't care what you do so long as the law of the land and it governace and justice are not influenced in any way. And don't say it is not affect by any secrect group because the "could" is a reality and cannot be denied.


[edit on 19-12-2009 by Bunker or Bust]


I am gaining much respect for you Bunker or Bust. So, I gave ya stars.
I am appreciative of individuals who disagree with me on some points, but can offer a reason as to why they disagree rather than the same old...

Let's just attack him and try to make him feel stupid enough to shut up.

I expected it, and I knew when I started that this would happen, but to me, when it does it shows desperation, and desperation and fear go hand in hand.

My problem with any individual who serves the public and also serves Freemasonry or any group who conspires in secret (because as long as it's secret it's conspiring), is that we have no way to know if their intentions are to serve the public or to serve the secret group.

So this naturally leads me to ask this question...

Why would they want it both ways?
Why would these secret initiate groups want us to know how secret and exclusive they are?
Why not just actually be secret and keep their mouths shut?

The answer has two aspects in my opinion:

1) Secrecy is the source of their power. Take away the exclusivity and the secrecy and no one wants to join.

2) Low self-esteem. This is not an insult, but an observation.
Psychologists view it as an aspect of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and it can be seen in individuals who define themselves by their social status.

I am still working on a post regarding how secrecy is destroying our government from within, but I wanted to chime in on this one.

Also B or B, how exactly did I take the bait?


[edit on 19-12-2009 by Josephus23]



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by Project2501
African Americans are excluded in regular "blue" lodges.


Really? I must ask our IPM why it is that he's an IPM if he's excluded from regular blue lodge? Or what those Prince Hall Masons were doing in our Lodge when he was installed? Or what we were doing visiting their Lodge for that matter?

Strange days!



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by Diplomat
 


"communism" was perverted by the few to what you call now commonly call communism. The demonic political system...

Did Russia invade and impose it and I missed it?

The real ideal was never imposed on you. The true and pure idea was about fairness and equality.

So please stop with the reds under the bed routine


Russia did not invade and impose communism, but if you notice one aspect that was absolutely crucial to maintaining Soviet power it was their

Central Banking System.

Granted, they might have used it poorly regarding their idea of central planning, but then again, maybe not.

The best way to defeat an enemy is to make them think that you are defeated, and then attack them covertly. And the best way to attack the United States covertly is to use the system of secret initiative groups already established and allowed to exist within the framework of the US government.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by Josephus23]



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Josephus23

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by Project2501
 


This is a quote from an ex-Mason found right here in this thread:


Oh! I see! A quote about Masonry from a never-was Mason! That's some compelling 'evidence'.


Perhaps you should go through the "Problem Lodge" thread and read the responses from actual Masons with an unjaundiced eye (if that's even possible for you) and wonder why HDFACTORYCERTIF was shown to be a through-and-through liar. Then reconsider why you think it advisable to source him as any kind of reference to Masonry.


I did read the threads, and he basically exposed YOU GUYS as the liars.

You need to read a bit better.


I was involved in that thread when as it was created. You clearly missed the part about the OP spinning an identical story with different characters and circumstances on a motorcycle forum.

And oddly enough, he's virtually never cited as a credible source except when he re-appears as laundry

And somehow Masons are the liars? You better brush up on your reading comprehension skills.


Originally posted by Josephus23
The framework of secret societies are being used to destroy this country from within.


Wow! A blast straight from the late, lamented 1950's. J. Edgar would be proud of you. Pity your 'facts' are about a half-century past their best-before date.


Originally posted by Josephus23
I sincerely hope that when the populist outrage in this country finally hits, that it is non-violent and Masonry is BANNED FROM GOVERNMENT.


I presume you're referring to the States. Then when do we move on to the Catholics, the Jews, the Amish, the Sinister, the Rotarians, etc? And typically such 'oust them all' movements are anything but non-violent.

You've watched "V for Vendetta" too often.


Typical argument against the man.

This reeks of desperation.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


The OP started the thread with should people in a position of power or responsibility be allowed to be a member of a secrect group without answer to the role they perform and to the public they serve.


I was referring to the OP in the "Problem Lodge" thread, not this one.


Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Logic would say no as a conflict of interest "could" happen. Don't beat him up because he took the bait.


I just point out the ridiculous. You may defend it if you like.


Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
If you can argue against the point then please do, but the secret part will kind of restrict your justification as no-one knows what the "could" actually be. Just saying it won't is not good enough, this is the concern against all secret groups with the wider public.


I don't know what the Rotarians are up to. Let's ban them! What about the Knights of Columbus? Chief Counsellor, will you stand by and be banned for your membership in that group? You see, even though Masonic ritual has been readily available for pushing three centuries, there's always someone who can't accept that there isn't something more than he knows, that's being hidden and if we just do this one more thing, the real secrets will out.

T'is been ever thus and there never will be a threshold short of abolition that'll satisfy the suspicious. This doesn't make any of these groups bad; just bad in the eyes of the myopic.


Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Common sense really, if your going to be secret, really be secret or be open it's as simple as that.


Define how much more open you expect Masonry to be? What is it you don't think you can't find out with a half-hour's investiGoogling?


Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
I don't care what you do so long as the law of the land and it governace and justice are not influenced in any way.


But you see, you don't trust anyone. So nothing I or any other Mason could say or do would be satisfactory to you. Ever. You evidently prefer a constant state of suspicion. Goebbels thrived on such mindsets.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by Josephus23

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Josephus23

reply to post by Project2501
 


This is a quote from an ex-Mason found right here in this thread:


Oh! I see! A quote about Masonry from a never-was Mason! That's some compelling 'evidence'.


Perhaps you should go through the "Problem Lodge" thread and read the responses from actual Masons with an unjaundiced eye (if that's even possible for you) and wonder why HDFACTORYCERTIF was shown to be a through-and-through liar. Then reconsider why you think it advisable to source him as any kind of reference to Masonry.


Typical argument against the man.

This reeks of desperation.


T'is a statement of fact. Not a whit of desperation. Any kind of unbiased, clear-eyed read of the thread would have given even a casual peruser of that thread evidence that HDFACTORYCERTIF's allegation was made up from whole cloth. You seem to need to source him as if he was actually a Mason. In my experience, that's emblematic of laundry.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Josephus23

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Josephus23

reply to post by Project2501
 


This is a quote from an ex-Mason found right here in this thread:


Oh! I see! A quote about Masonry from a never-was Mason! That's some compelling 'evidence'.


Perhaps you should go through the "Problem Lodge" thread and read the responses from actual Masons with an unjaundiced eye (if that's even possible for you) and wonder why HDFACTORYCERTIF was shown to be a through-and-through liar. Then reconsider why you think it advisable to source him as any kind of reference to Masonry.


Typical argument against the man.

This reeks of desperation.


T'is a statement of fact. Not a whit of desperation. Any kind of unbiased, clear-eyed read of the thread would have given even a casual peruser of that thread evidence that HDFACTORYCERTIF's allegation was made up from whole cloth. You seem to need to source him as if he was actually a Mason. In my experience, that's emblematic of laundry.


Let's look at one of your quotes:



eta: That said, I won't be rising again to this troll's bait


I would suggest adding to that "unless it helps me distract attention away from the truth regarding this thread".

Let's look at one of his quotes:



Goodbye Fitzgibbon. Just keep those secrets and run the ship aground. There are far more just like you like you, then are not.


So let's say that you are speaking the truth, which is impossible if we are discussing Freemasonry and you are a Mason (this has already been firmly established).
This guy has got you beat in the gentleman category by a mile as the crow flies (that is much further than a mile by the way).
You are only making it oh so obvious as to why he wanted out.

Just to compare. Let's look at how another Mason reacted regarding this guys comment.



That indeed is appalling. I am sorry this wasn't treated as it should have been by Grand Lodge. Of course as a Mason you will always be a brother. It's a shame that ritual was mocked in this way.


Sure does seem to me that this Mason found his story credible.

But you know what Mr. Fitzgibbon? I honestly do not care about this and it doesn't really relate to my OP.
So here you go. You can win this battle.

Do you feel better now?

Your behavior exemplifies and betrays the truth behind your words.

And what are you trying to do?

DISTRACT!!!!!
DISTORT!!!!!
DECEIVE!!!!

It seems like I have accused you of this before, and yet you seem to be oh so adamant to prove me right.

Thank you Mr. Fitzgibbon. I could not have asked for better behavioral reinforcement of my accusation!!

Seriously. Thank you.



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