Atheists to protect ATS - Fight the Fundies!

Originally posted by LifENcircleS

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by ZombieOctopus

 

What can I say apart from - "Have mercy on the poor fundies, for they know not what they do!"

The Para.

I hope you like the heat because it's hot where your headed... to quote you "

"

LifENcircleS

This is like a joke generation emporium!

I think I'm going to have record some of this stuff to use at the next National Secular Society meeting.

The Para.

reply to post by lordtyp0


Another excellent post. I will certainly keep an eye out for you in the future.

If indeed then the matter at hand is all subjectively linked to philosophy, what is Religion doing being preached on a conspiracy site? Surely rationality and empiricism are the prerequisites for wading through the conspiracy mire? Philosophy can surely only have a marginal place here at best?

The Para.

Most of the time, the threads that have to do with religion are in the religious forums. Is your fight going to demand those forums be taken down?

If you don't like the religious debate, simply don't go to those forums or participate in those threads. This whole notion of willfully pitting one group against another is childish and ignorant in my opinion. I thought the idea of ATS was to deny ignorance. Christians do have a right to their opinion too, just as the atheist have.

reply to post by OldThinker


I will certainly attend some of your threads if I can OT. It would be interesting tussling grey matter with you.

However, you mentioned 'balanced religious folk' in your post. I can't have a qualified conversation with 'balanced religious folk' because religious people aren't balanced.

They have their philosophy in creating viewpoints, and everything they say, think or do is 'tainted' by this pseudo-philosophy. Watch the vids I linked to - you'll find them interesting.

The Para

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Most of the time, the threads that have to do with religion are in the religious forums. Is your fight going to demand those forums be taken down?

If you don't like the religious debate, simply don't go to those forums or participate in those threads. This whole notion of willfully pitting one group against another is childish and ignorant in my opinion. I thought the idea of ATS was to deny ignorance. Christians do have a right to their opinion too, just as the atheist have.

Quite the opposite - I welcome Religion Conspiracy forums, and the people that contribute to them.

However, the problem I am finding is that the contributions are more 'preachings' than conspiratorial commentary or examinations. The religion seems to come first, the pursuit of conspiratorial truth last. This is the crux of my argument.

The Para.

These types of threads absolutely infuriate me. The only dark-spot I see on these boards in regards to religion are threads such as this.
Is the OP so insecure in his knowledge that he actually feels *threatened* by a person who abandons reason for faith? Surely if there are enough people like him on these boards they should be able to easily determine who's participation in the threads lacks reason and just sorta' shrug them off. On the other hand, once you start censorship, it has a habit of snowballing. This is why ATS continually battles with itself over the drug-use topics.

This thread is nothing more than a bully-pulpit for an insecure mind.
And I say this as a man who lacks faith.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Christians do have a right to their opinion too, just as the atheist have.

Then why are atheists on ATS getting banned left & right as evidenced in my last post. Para is likely next on the menu (para emailed ya, i use anonymous mail so it may be in your spam box). I vote for no religion in any threads -by default- and dedicated spiritual areas.

double post

[edit on 1-12-2009 by onlylonely]

Originally posted by JayinAR
These types of threads absolutely infuriate me. The only dark-spot I see on these boards in regards to religion are threads such as this.
Is the OP so insecure in his knowledge that he actually feels *threatened* by a person who abandons reason for faith? Surely if there are enough people like him on these boards they should be able to easily determine who's participation in the threads lacks reason and just sorta' shrug them off. On the other hand, once you start censorship, it has a habit of snowballing. This is why ATS continually battles with itself over the drug-use topics.

This thread is nothing more than a bully-pulpit for an insecure mind.
And I say this as a man who lacks faith.

I will reiterate - I am no fan of censorship or viewpoint suppression.

However, Religious Conviction has no useful or pertinent contextual value to add to a discussion about conspiracies. It merely 'clogs up the system'.

I don't dispute your right to be infuriated. And to enlighten you, I don't feel threatened. I feel that the integrity and usefulness of ATS is being threatened by the religious fundamentalism, and general mal-application of religious conviction here on the site.

The Para.

Originally posted by Anamnesis
You lost me here. Reeks of censorship and oppression. There's an old saying. "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."

You could class posts that are removed for being "off topic" as censorship and oppression. To many on here religous arguments are off topic in non-religous threads. I could have a strong belief that '42' is the answer to every question and if I posted:

'42
Second Line 42'

in every thread and encouraged others to do similar, would you not want these posts censored?

Para isn't against people of faith or against religous arguments, he is against the derailment of threads and the posting of almost stock religous arguments everywhere in places they do not belong.

reply to post by Parallex


Oh I see. I agree. ATS is not a forum for preaching. I do think you should tone down your title to more reflect that notion than a war against the two groups.

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by lordtyp0

 

Another excellent post. I will certainly keep an eye out for you in the future.

If indeed then the matter at hand is all subjectively linked to philosophy, what is Religion doing being preached on a conspiracy site? Surely rationality and empiricism are the prerequisites for wading through the conspiracy mire? Philosophy can surely only have a marginal place here at best?

The Para.

What is the purpose of a conspiracy if not power related? And, what is the purpose of Religion if not to solidify power? Not to be confused with spirituality. What a person feels and believes at home is not the same as a gathering who try and spread the beliefs across the globe.
Otherwise: Philosophy is the linking factor in every secret group and could be said as the starting point of every religion. It is certainly the defining factor of political parties.

If you want to understand the plant you must first find the proverbial seed. That is of course the idea that people agree with.

In most religions the first seed is the need to not feel alone, followed by the need to feel that loved ones are still there even when buried. The rest comes about via different leaders trying to justify their power similar to congressmen passing stupid laws to say they were relevant and did their jobs.

I should note that I am using philosophy as a general term here, not what it is usually associated with-describing reality via rationalization instead of evidence.

I mean, don't forget that philosophy starting point of all sciences and math

So, you've been here for about 9 months, and you've decided that the greatest threat to this board is people who believe in Jesus?

I've been here for 6-1/2 years and I'm almost certain the biggest threat to this board has been and continues to be (at an ever alarming rate of increase) the ignorant who are so close-minded, insecure, and paranoid that they crap themselves every morning when their alarms go off because the first and last thought during their waking hours is that SOMEBODY might be out there thinking or believing differently than them.

From the smell of this thread, I'm thinking you need to check your bippies.

anyone has the right to their opinion

i, after several failed attempts at trying to type something relaxed and open without being discriminatory, believe that people who give their own personal power away to a being taught to them by some other human, suffer a kind of mental illness that prevents them from reaching their own full potential as sentient beings on this planet for the limited time that they are here.

AND, IMO, they also limit the future and ideas of children who look up to them as role models on which to base their own life upon.

of course this is only my opinion on which debate and argument is wholeheartedly encouraged as this moves human collective thought forward into new realms not considered by writers of ancient texts.

x

Originally posted by JayinAR
These types of threads absolutely infuriate me. The only dark-spot I see on these boards in regards to religion are threads such as this.
Is the OP so insecure in his knowledge that he actually feels *threatened* by a person who abandons reason for faith? Surely if there are enough people like him on these boards they should be able to easily determine who's participation in the threads lacks reason and just sorta' shrug them off. On the other hand, once you start censorship, it has a habit of snowballing. This is why ATS continually battles with itself over the drug-use topics.

This thread is nothing more than a bully-pulpit for an insecure mind.
And I say this as a man who lacks faith.

Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking...I am done with this thread and I pray for your souls...Just to be fair..."To Each Their Own"

LifENcircleS

reply to post by onlylonely


I have only been here a little over a month. I can take your word that, that is happening because I have not seen it first hand. Perhaps the thing to do is ask the Mods about this.

It may be (I don't know) that you perceive the events in this manner and others do not.

Originally posted by JayinAR
This thread is nothing more than a bully-pulpit for an insecure mind.
And I say this as a man who lacks faith.

And as a man who has faith I agree with you.

Wow,
The faithful being on the same sheet of music as those those who lack faith.

Yeah,
We're a real threat to a conspiracy site.

Something must be done.

reply to post by lordtyp0


Don't get me wrong - I agree.

In terms of analysing a subject, or understanding something, education about religion or philosophy is indeed very important, almost a necessity.

However, the tangible application of that religion or philosophy on ATS appears to be highly detrimental to the sites purpose.

The Para.

Originally posted by Parallex

Originally posted by Anamnesis

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by Anamnesis

 

Religion is irrelevant to ATS subject matter, and as such should be stopped from interfering with the search for the truth.

Oh by all means... ATS should supress the rights of those whose point of view interferes with the search for the truth. Definitely not censorship, I see what you mean now.....

Hehe, nicely turned around. I thank you.

Is it not the case that ATS depends on empirical and rational debate to uncover the truth behind conspiracies and unexplained phenomena?

What is rational or empirical about religion? Nothing.

Therefore, the two are mutually exclusive.

The Para.

I guess you missed the sarcasm in the question-mark head thingy...

What you are describing IS censorship and suppression....

~peace

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by OldThinker

 

I will certainly attend some of your threads if I can OT. It would be interesting tussling grey matter with you.

However, you mentioned 'balanced religious folk' in your post. I can't have a qualified conversation with 'balanced religious folk' because religious people aren't balanced......

Yes, you are certainly welcome...Friend this isn't a DISCRETE argument.

Pls see some pretty smart balanced religious folks...and their quotes...ok?

Blaise Pascal [1623-1662]
Scientist noted for work in physics, hydrostatics, vacuums; inventor of mechanical calculator
"Jesus Christ, I have separated myself from Him:I have fled from Him, denied Him, crucified Him.Let me never be separated from Him.
We keep hold of Him only by the ways taught in the Gospel.Renunciation, total and sweet.
Total submission to Jesus Christ..."
[from a manuscript dated Monday November 23, 1654 and found in his own handwriting in his coat at his death]
"Knowing God without knowing our own wretchedness engenders pride. Knowing our own wretchedness without knowing God engenders despair." [Pascal - Pensees no 527]
*Also famous for "Pascal's Wager"--a powerful defense of the Christian faith
Robert Boyle [1627-1691]
Founder of Modern Chemistry/Gas Dynamics
Governor of Missionary organization for propagating the gospel in New England
Personally financed the translation of the Bible into Irish, Turkish, and Arabic
Author of "The Christian Virtuoso" reflecting on the study of nature for Christians
Author of Christian devotional book, "Occasional Reflections"
His will after his death financed the "Boyle Lectures" which were lectures in defense of Christianity
"From a knowledge of His work, we shall know Him"
"Christ's passion, His death, His resurrection and ascension, and all of those wonderful works which He did during His stay upon earth, in order to confirm mankind in the belief of His being God as well as man."
Sir Isaac Newton [1642-1727]
Mathematician, Physicist,Inventor of calculus, Law of universal gravitation
Newton's three laws of motion:
1) Law of inertia 2) Force=mass*acceleration 3) Principle of action and reaction
Published "Newton's Prophecies of Daniel"
after his study and translation of the Book of Daniel [in the Bible]
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition."

"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history."

" This thing [a scale model of our solar system] is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a designer and maker; yet you, as an atheist, profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?"
Sir William Herschel [1738-1822]
Astronomist. Discovered Uranus, several nebulae, and binary stars.
First to accurately describe the Milky Way Galaxy
“All human discoveries seem to be made only for the purpose of confirming more and more
the Truths contained in the Sacred Scriptures.”
"The undevout astronomer must be mad
Samuel Morse [1791-1872]
Inventor of the telegraph [Morse's sketch of the railway telegraph above]
"Education without religion is in danger of substituting wild theories for the simple commonsense rules of Christianity."
First message sent by the electric telegraph:
"What hath God wrought"
[This is found in the Bible; Numbers 23:23]
[The message was sent from the Supreme Court Room in the Capitol to the railway depot at Baltimore; May 24, 1844]
[In one letter, Samuel Morse wrote "What hath GOD wrought" by capitalizing and underlining "GOD" twice!]
Michael Faraday [1791-1867]
Inventor of the electric generator and the transformer
Discovered Benzene--used to make plastics, nylon and dyes
Produced the first test tubes
Described Field Theory
*Hailed by Albert Einstein as the foundation for his own scientific discoveries*
Elder in his church for over 20 years
"Speculations? I have none. I am resting on certainties. 'I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.'"
"A Christian finds his guide in the Word of God, and commits the keeping of his soul into the hands of God. He looks for no assurance beyond what the Word can give him, and if his mind is troubled by the cares and fears which assail him, he can go nowhere but in prayer to the throne of
grace and to Scripture."
"Since peace is alone in the gift of God; and as it is He who gives it, why should we be afraid? His unspeakable gift in His beloved Son is the ground of no doubtful hope." --[1861 letter]
"The Bible, and it alone, with nothing added to it nor taken away from it by man, is the sole and sufficient guide for each individual, at all times and in all circumstances…For faith in the divinity and work of Christ is the gift of God, and the evidence of this faith is obedience to the commandment of Christ.
Matthew Maury [1806-1873]
The "Father" of oceanography
Aided in the laying of the first trans-Atlantic cable
Maury believed Psalm 8:8, which speaks of the "paths of the seas" , and he discovered "oceanic currents"
Maury described atmospheric circulation and showed that it was already described in Ecclesiastes 1:6
Maury showed Job 28:25 to be true with respect to the weight of the winds.

"The Bible is true and science is true, and therefore each, if truly read, but proves the truth of the other."
James Prescott Joule [1818-1889]
Described the First Law of Thermodynamics: The Law of Conservation of Energy
[American Biochemist Isaac Asimov said that the First Law of Thermodynamics is
"one of the most important generalizations in the history of science"]
Kinetic Theory of Gases
"Joule-Thomson" effect--the basis of refrigeration
A unit of energy [work] in physics is now called a "joule"
"It is evident that an acquaintance with natural laws means no less than
an acquaintance with the mind of God therein expressed."
"Order is manifestly maintained in the universe...governed by the sovereign will of God"
"After the knowledge of, and obedience to, the will of God, the next aim must be to know something of His attributes of wisdom, power, and goodness as evidenced by His handiwork."
James Clerk Maxwell [1831-1879]
Statistical Thermodynamics, Field equations of electricity, magnetism, light

" No theory of evolution can be formed to account for the similarity of molecules,
for evolution necessarily implies continuous change."

"Almighty God, Who has created man in Thine own image, and made him a living soul that he might seek after Thee,
and have dominion over Thy creatures, teach us to study the works of Thy hands, that we may subdue the earth to our use, and strengthen the reason for Thy service; so to receive Thy blessed Word, that we may believe on Him Who Thou has sent, to give us the knowledge of salvation and the remission of our sins. All of which we ask in the name of the same Jesus Christ, our Lord." [prayer written by Maxwell and found amongst his notes]

Maxwell was an elder in the church he helped establish near his home.
Louis Pasteur [1822-1895]
Father of Microbiology, developed "pasteurization"
"The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator."
"Science brings men nearer to God."
Jean-Henri Fabre [1823-1915]
Entomology, Biology
Author of 8-volume series "Souvenirs Entomologiques"
detailing the behavior and life history of many species
"Without Him, I understand nothing; without Him, all is darkness…Every period has its manias.
I regard Atheism as a mania. It is the malady of the age.
You could take my skin from me more easily than my faith in God."
Sir Joseph Lister [1827-1912]
Father of antiseptic surgery, first to wire fractures, developed dissolving sutures
"I am a believer in the fundamental doctrines of Christianity"

Lord Kelvin [William Thomson] [1824-1907]
Physicist, Laws of Thermodynamics, Absolute temperature scale, inventor
"With regard to the origin of life, science...positively affirms creative power."
"Overwhelmingly strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around us...
the atheistic idea is so non-sensical that I cannot put it into words."
George Washington Carver [c. 1864-1943]
agricultural chemist, inventor of over 300 products
"Without my Savior, I am nothing."
"I love to think of nature as an unlimited broadcasting station,
through which God speaks to us every hour, if we will only tune in."
"God is going to reveal to us things he never revealed before if we put our hands in his. No books ever go into my laboratory, a thing I am to do and the way of doing it are revealed me."

Wernher Von Braun [1912-1977]; first Director of NASA, pioneer of space exploration
"Scientific concepts exist only in the minds of men.
Behind these concepts lies the reality which is being revealed to us, but only by the grace of God."

source: www.eadshome.com...