Atheists to protect ATS - Fight the Fundies!

and their only arguement is why doesnt God do this? or why doesnt God do that? for a group that doesnt believe in him you want him to do a lot. lol

reply to post by orwellianunenlightenment


I have said before that the rift, the utter hate between men and women, is a root that grows into this master/slave, war laden world in which we live. And we are both equally guilty, so I don't want to hear any useless misogyny or misandry. I don't want to hear any drama spinners who think they are the center of everything. Strangely enough, Plato saw heterosexual men and women as man/woman and woman/man. Yet both those who rail against and adamantly support homosexuality support the view of heterosexuals as man/man and woman/woman. Strangely enough, and we wonder why we have so much strife?

I think my previous post better explains this stance that anything I have posted earlier.

Please, I humbly ask those in the war stance to read (and respond to) my previous two posts, among the many posts by other members calling for an end to this insanity. After all, if you are absolutely right, and your truth is THE truth, then, by definition, it cannot be contradicted. Therefore, if you are right and I am wrong, then you have nothing to fear by studying what I and others have written. Don't worry, I have no more intrinsic worth than any other human being here, and I will not devour you.

I hereby dangle a carrot in front of the carrot danglers. I openly admit my attempt to bait that trickster who so loves baiting. THE trickster is beneath me, and is beneath us all really, even though that trickster infects us all from time to time.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by orwellianunenlightenment]

There is nothing wrong with creating a place on ATS exclusively catering to scientific evidence, methods and terminologies.

You felt you had to inflict unnecessary injury to those who choose to think on higher levels of intellect, intuition, vision and spirituality, because of the idiots who seem to represent the majority of those people.

Sadly, you have been a victim of mass propaganda that has convinced you that there is nothing higher than man. So, by working in the limitations of what YOU see, hear, taste and incorporating the opinions of your parents, society and media, you have effectively put your faith in your existence in the hands of a group of scientists who occasionally write papers of their findings. Findings THUS FAR.

The supernatural manifests into the natural. That is why many things are explained scientifically. Science is NOT a deception...it's just limited in it's ULTIMATE quest to find the source of it's truth.

To be a complete human being, you must think with both science and the information from the spirit world.

It's the interpretation of this information that has caused many people to misrepresent the divine. It doesn't help that the Mass Media perpetuates this view of religious people. This is why "the source" has to come into each and every one of our lives in it's own time. Before that time, you will never fully believe in it's existence.

So instead of you searching for the truth, all you are doing is finding limited truth.

Wake up.



[edit on 2-12-2009 by juzchilln]

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by juzchilln


I'm not making any assumptions as to your spiritual/religious stand point, but I'm assuming that you're either Buddhist/Agnostic.

Let me explain something, implying that it is imperative that atheists believe in something is no better than them implying we shouldn't believe in something, and I recommend, if you wish to be a critical thinker of ATS, to not inject what you think they should believe, but to express intelligent, well rounded data supporting your side of the fence. Although this is not the thread for that, just a recommendation before you get flamed.

And remember, in a atheists brain something that hasn't been tested or cannot be tested by the scientific method, more than likely is not relevant to them.

reply to post by juzchilln


Wellsaid. Ignoring the spiritual part of humanity is like going through life without thumbs. Many things can be done but poorly.

reply to post by daggyz


I'm glad you choose the Christian path and are judging people without regard. How very Christian of you. WWJD?

This is a good point the OP is trying to make, unfortunately he just said all the right things the wrong way, IMO, and threw in some accusations for good measure.

Awesome, purely, awesome...

My take on it...if you can't make a point without having religion involved by quoting from religious text, using religious examples, or basically having to draw YOUR conclusions from your religion in every little thing you do, then when you are on the internet posting to, and reading from a site like this...you are asking to get picked on, slammed, and tried by those who find your views antiquated and silly.

If I'm not misunderstanding the OP, HE/SHE was simply trying to say the above. Now I'm all for people having the freedom to believe what makes sense to them, but to then turn around a force it on everyone else through your inability to function outside of that very limited perspective, is unfair and very, very annoying.

The fundamentalist, in my opinion are just trying to spread the faith most of the time, but by going about it the way they do they actually come across very narrow-minded and defiant in the face of Science and basically the last 100 years of modern history. You would think some of the stuff on this sight alone would at least cause some of them to reconsider their views or at least try to incorporate correct and factual information into their core beliefs...

The fact that MOST fundamentalist can't even sit still long enough to listen to the other side of this argument should be a clear sign to anyone looking at them closely that they are, well brainwashed by 5000 plus years of antediluvian retrospection...

Just a Thought,

Just Joe

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by LifENcircleS

 

Excellent work casting judgement upon someone else. What a very Christian thing to do. WWJD?

I wish people would stop using this tired old retort: "oooooo, that's not very Christian of you to say that".

Who cares if a certain reply isn't "Christian" of someone? People who are Christians are not perfect (newsflash -- they're regular people) -- and "Christian" is probably not the first adjective they would use to describe themselves. So I don't find it surprising that a Christian person may say something "mean" from time-to-time.

Damn, people. Get some perspective on the world. It's not as black and white as some of you seem to think.


...back to the OP:
It seems to me that the problem isn't Atheists and Christians -- the problem is with "Radical Christians" and "Radical Atheists". They are two sides of the same coin -- that coin being "radicalism". I'd say that the OP sounds like a radical Atheist (i.e., calling for a war against "ALL" Christianity). He is just as harmful to society as the radical fundamentalists.

Most normal atheists and most normal Christians would probably get along very well -- and in fact (unknowingly) do get along very well. I'm not a big "believer", but I get along with my friends who I know are semi-devout Catholics. We rarely (if ever) talk about religion, because religion isn't the thing that defines us -- or the thing that defines most people for that matter.

It seems the OP wants to define himself first and foremost as an atheist (which is why I call him radical), just like the radical fundamentalist Christian probably defines his entire life by his faith. It sounds to me that the OP has more in common with the radical fundamentalists than he would be willing to admit.

There is nothing wrong with atheism. There is nothing wrong with Christianity. There is everything wrong with radicalism.


[edit on 12/2/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

reply to post by JustJoe


Good post, starred.

I wish more people would pay attention to the analytical point of this thread, and spend LESS time bickering on WWJD or "HOW VERY UNCHRISTIAN OF YOU" and "CHRISTIANS ARE NORMAL PEOPLE TO".

Who cares? Christians, people alike, this is not debating your RELIGION, this is trying to show you the category you fall into when intelligent people are holding intelligent conversation.

And, it's not a category you want to be in if you want to be credible.

/edit

BTW I give it one page before this thread gets closed. To many insults etc, one-sighted viewpoints battling one another, unstoppable force meets unmovable wall, etc.

Now, I directly BLAME this on OP. If he had chose his words correctly, this could have been an awesome, non-flamed post.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Revolution-2012]

Originally posted by TrueTruth
Why don't you just leave them alone, and let them talk about Christianity?

I thought this place was supposed to be about embracing a wide spectrum of viewpoints on the universe?



Since when is it about marginalizing and attacking people with a philosophy you don't happen to like?



Sounds pretty NAZI like to me.


Check your head, sir.

This site is about denying ignorance. And all subjects should be held to the same standard. If I started a thread about the flying spaghetti monster being the only path to salvation. I would be required to show some proof of that claim.

Just as any post about god, jesus, allah, etc, should be required to provide evidence of their claim. If you do not provide proof of your claim, prepare to be pushed on it. You can post what you want but be prepared to provide the same level of evidence that is required of someone posting about aliens or any other subject.

reply to post by Revolution-2012


Um, they do believe in something in that they do have beliefs. And I mean in this context:

Main Entry: be·lief
Pronunciation: \bə-ˈlēf\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English beleave, probably alteration of Old English gelēafa, from ge-, associative prefix + lēafa; akin to Old English lȳfan — more at believe
Date: 12th century
1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

synonyms belief, faith, credence, credit mean assent to the truth of something offered for acceptance. belief may or may not imply certitude in the believer . faith almost always implies certitude even where there is no evidence or proof . credence suggests intellectual assent without implying anything about grounds for assent . credit may imply assent on grounds other than direct proof .
synonyms see in addition opinion

SOURCE

reply to post by Anamnesis


Whoa! This does not reek of censorship. One should be alowed to have a discussion without all these religious freeks coming out and detouring the discussion in their annoying righteousness.

I agree with the OP: you write a thread on ETs and all of a sudden it becomes a thread about god's warning of end times or whatever nonesense that has absolutely nothing to do with the original post.

And there is no talking to these people as they firmly believe that they possess all of the answers. Even if they all disagree on the subject of the thread, they all band together against anyone who doesn't agree with their religious convictions.

And as they all agree on their religious convictions, they are probably all of the same religious group (some distorted christian view; not catholic, not anglican, not muslim and not jewish). Because Catholics don't agree with Muslims and neither agrees with Jews...

I say either:

a/ Get them their own forum where they can discuss religion to their heart's content or:

b/ Put a button marked "religious crap" that we can click on and get that post out of the discussion.

Yet again, I hereby ask any of those who are firmly against....to have a dialogue with me. I just want a dialogue. No war. Just a discussion. Let's try to resolve this. I am going to get some fast food now, but will be back in probably 10-15 minutes. This allows you plenty of time to brainstorm.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows




Bro.

Really.

Let me rephrase.

Belief in a higher, undefined, unprovable power.

I think you caught my drift, low blow. You took a grain of salt to the microscope.

reply to post by ajmusicmedia

Whoa! This does not reek of censorship. One should be alowed to have a discussion without all these religious freeks coming out and detouring the discussion in their annoying righteousness.

Main Entry: 2censor
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): cen·sored; cen·sor·ing \ˈsen(t)-sə-riŋ, ˈsen(t)s-riŋ\
Date: 1882
: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable ; also : to suppress or delete as objectionable

It is advocating censorship and segregation, and your claim that is is not would not hold up under any other situation.
"It is not segregation i just think white people can have a good time without black people comming into the establishment"
"It is not censorship i just think everyone should be able to go buy books about white supremacy without having to sift through books about equality so i think we should ban books on equality from amazon.com"

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Science by it's own nature is the quest to find the truth, if the truth leads them to the divine, then I think it would accept it. Fact is that science is so far behind the ultimate reality.

But let's get frank here. Most people who choose to limit their world to science, do so not because they are willing to ride it all the way to the source. Because as soon as science finds the source or God, Non-believers will jump off the train and cover their eyes.

The fact is that, these Athiests or whatever you want to call them, will only stay with science as long as science stays away from the ultimate source.

That's why most of them are hypocrites in their explanations for why they choose to deny anything ahead of science. For them, it's a protective shield to hide behind that gives them comfort knowing that they do not have to realign their entire life and view of life anytime soon. I like to call it, stubborn ignorance or Delayed Truth.

They are so angry at believers. I mean, would you scream at a person saying you do not like the color of their hair?

I think both religious and nonbelievers behave like fools when they attack one another. The believers become impatient at the limited views of non-believers. While, the non believers get impatient at the ungrounded behavior of believers.

This war will never end, because all we are dealing with are people who can never see past themselves or their perception of the world they live in.

Therefore, most believers have never felt God but hold onto ancient teachings, and most non-believers will stay with science so long as science stays away from the Light.


Here's something I might suggest to the non-believers. This will get you kick started in the right direction as long as you are open for it. I like to call it the "Express train to God for Dummies".
Start by formatting the mental hard drive. Now this might be rough for a few days or weeks..maybe months. But with the right Intent and guidance, you might evolve a bit quicker.

Smoke a few spiritually charged herbs that grow naturally on our lush planet. Assuming you're not a complete idiot and you open yourself to a higher reality, higher vision, and higher intellect, you will definitely see all of creation and the meaning of everything in the universe. Ultimately, after you get through the purging of ALL the poison in your mind, body and soul.....you will see what we are all talking about. And my friend, it's more than the electrons and blah-trons firing in the retinas and our brain....

Come on..let's start waking up people!! We got a lot of work to do here and the Earth is getting darker by the minute.

Originally posted by ajmusicmedia
reply to post by Anamnesis

 

Whoa! This does not reek of censorship. One should be alowed to have a discussion without all these religious freeks coming out and detouring the discussion in their annoying righteousness.

Well, guess what. I am opposed to aliens. In fact, all of you people staring up at the skies looking for "the day" when "aliens" come from above and bless you with their vision -- stop! It's alien propaganda I tell you!. Stop worshipping the cosmos! Stop talking about tingles you felt, and hums in your ears, and the general feeling of "oneness" with species beyond our own. They don't exist! I say they don't exist, and since I certainly don't see one standing in front of me -- they must not exist!

I will no longer tolerate the endless amount of alien footage -- only to be proven hoax. How dare you enter a thread about military craft and claim it could be a UFO. When you do so you are derailing the thread! We are there to talk about scientific and technological craft -- not some crazy, made-up, non-existent, yet-to-be-proven UFO driven by aliens nonetheless. Don't try to push your "aliens exist" mantra on me.

OR

I could just hit IGNORE.