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CIA is admitting to surriptitous use of social interactions

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posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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CIA and the inadequate term of "Magic"



Former CIA deputy director John McLaughlin writes in a forward to the manual that “[a]s best we know,” the drink-spiking techniques “were never actually used.” The assurance would be more reassuring if the authors who had recovered the manual, H. Keith Melton and Robert Wallace, had not included their own historical overview of CIA trickery. In it, they explain that Mulholland’s writing was part of the secret MKULTRA program, whereby the CIA sought methods and materials “capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior.” And part of MKULTRA did involve dosing unsuspecting subjects with '___' and other drugs.


I contend that drink spiking techniques were used. Why would they research this is not for implementation at some point?

Social engineering...NLP...I am sure that the MK program is still alive.




posted on Feb, 13 2010 @ 12:38 PM
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Why spike drinks when you can put it in the water?

Now, even better, we have bottled water and millions of fools who buy it!

Don't drink the water dude.




posted on Feb, 13 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by MemoryShock
I contend that drink spiking techniques were used. Why would they research this is not for implementation at some point?


I can testify, under oathe, and on a big screen live courtroom polygraph that the FBI OR CIA (not clear on which it was) DID indeed spike ('___') the drink of one University of Texas student I know and still remember the student's name.

The student was not a drug-user and would never touch the stuff.

The student was then locked in a room of some sort (with barred windows). The student hallucinated Red Commies coming to get him and shot himself under the jaw. The bullet is still lodged in his brain.

Whether the "visions" were audially suggested by the CIA/FBI, unknown but probable.

The student did not own the gun. It was part of the MKUltra "test" I suppose.

The student, nor any of us, knew of MKUltra or anything like it at that time.

My story actually goes on for several years of time ... but, this is enough for now.

Yes, the GOVERNMENT DID spike '___' drinks to unwitting test subjects.



posted on Feb, 13 2010 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by Trexter Ziam
 

I would love to hear more of the story. When you are comfortable though.

I have some interesting aspects to the MK deal as well...



posted on Feb, 13 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Why spike drinks when you can put it in the water?

Now, even better, we have bottled water and millions of fools who buy it!

Don't drink the water dude.



The reason, in my estimation, is to be able to place higher profile drugs in the system of an individual for specific and premeditated purposes - not for mere day to day complacency.

There is a difference...



posted on Feb, 13 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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You're probably already familiar with a famous 1953 story that was linked to '___' spiking, but the entire story can be found here:

Frank Olson Project-Family Statements



posted on Feb, 13 2010 @ 09:22 PM
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While I find the '___' spiking a reprehensible act, that is not the reason for this thread.

he reason for this thread is to highlight the fact that the CIA studied, documented and eventually learned for application the use of sleight of hand.

That in itself is the point of the thread...to learn how to decieve people in front of their own eyes. '___' is not the only drug one can use to spike a drink. There is a laundry list of hypnotics that can be used to induce short term amnesia while retaining ambulatory capacity.

Now...we don't have admission to the above referenced narcotics (really now though?) but we do have admission to the sleight of hand reseach and training.

Why would the CIA do this?

And in my opinion, giving someone '___' without their knowledge is akin to a really terrible prank. What form of manipulation can be gained (save for 'loss of face')? The '___' is a red herring of sorts...



posted on Feb, 13 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 



And in my opinion, giving someone '___' without their knowledge is akin to a really terrible prank. What form of manipulation can be gained (save for 'loss of face')? The '___' is a red herring of sorts...


Now you are onto something MemoryShock. Of course it is a red herring. I'm sure this technique was utilized and might still be in use today, but I am more inclined to believe that they have evolved way past that. They continued the program there is no doubt.

Let's think along the lines of a Jim Jones. Here, someone can sway huge crowds with just their voice. Hitler, Manson and Koresh were all able to do this with the aid of peoples beliefs. Using emotional grandstanding and bringing everyones attention to a supposed miscarriage of justice. Or by making their followers believe how pitiful they are in the face of such a superior authority on the questions that elude them.

Now on a smaller scale, an individual scale things can get interesting. There are things that can entrance people easily. These are the techniques they have honed to a science. Certain fragrances can make the brain remember the primordial essence of its creation and make the individual receptive to certain suggestions. Lights can induce a trans like state. The slow repetition of certain phrases can force the listener into a train of thought. The combination of all these can be debilitating to the point that you have become their subject.

Can I provide any evidence or links? I will not waste my time, but all of these can be looked into. This is a fascinating subject to me.



posted on Feb, 13 2010 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by jackflap
 

Here's the rub...indirectly perhaps.

People call conspiracy theorists 'not all there' and an often used argument is "Why are you so important as to warrant 'high level' attention?"...

But here we have a documented and an admitted to situation where a 'high level' technique has been used against people of supposed inconsequence.

Whose irrational here?

Those who assume that there are a ton of pharmaceuticals that are not for public prescription, much less regular consumption, or those who say that the experimentation of the physiological/sociological effects of such narcotics occur?

Edit For Spelling.

[edit on Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:27:20 -0600 by MemoryShock]



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 12:07 AM
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Yes, true. Though it was admitted to, it was implemented for interrogation and was also provided as an excuse that the family later learned was indeed a red herring.



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 



But here we have a documented and an admitted to situation where a 'high level' technique has been used against people of supposed inconsequence.


These are the best subjects to use. Someone who is seemingly of no consequence. That way they can fabricate any circumstances as to why this individual did what they did. He was a recluse, well look what we found in his house. This person seemed normal to me, just worked and came home and was friendly. Ah yes, but do you know what they were doing online?

These people have resources to accommodate any spin they want to put on their evil deeds. These projects are ongoing and some of them have come to fruition before our very eyes. Some are just sleepers and may never get utilized but rest assured, the artifact that triggers them will work. There is a danger in using a high profile subject because of the danger of the high volume of interactions with other people he/she may have. The more people involved with the subject the more likely hood of someone noticing something that just isn't right.

The pharmaceuticals that are not for the general public? I wish the walls at Guantanamo could talk!



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by Trexter Ziam
 


make a thread. chronicle this story. it is critical that it get put out for others to know.

when you are done, look into Andy Pero.

edit to add: OP, good thread. I will S and F it for sure. This is right up my alley.

The ancients knew much of this, and employed it. It was what was known as "Magic". The utterance of a word, the movement of the hand....an old science indeed, and effective on the naive and simple.

The Nazi's did a lot of research in this vein, uncovering esoteric documents as they scoured the world for the occult. This science was brought to the States, along with loads of other lines of researc, during Project Paperclip. Thousands of Nazi's, added to US Gov payrolls. Many were used to set up the CIA, which has a mandated secret budget (presumably to help hide the Nazi paychecks?). US intelligence was built on the backs of Nazi officers.

[edit on 14-2-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by jackflap
This person seemed normal to me, just worked and came home and was friendly. Ah yes, but do you know what they were doing online?


The interesting aspect is that normal human behaviour is not meant to be a routine...it's a societally propagated mode that people identify with normal. And when voicing concerns and curiosities outside of societally accepted communication is viewed as an issue (and it is in many cases) then people end up suppressing thoughts and behaviours that are other wise normal. It's the percieved denigration of basic human impulse that motivates some adverse behaviour.

And for the record...my friends know what I think and what I do online...




These people have resources to accommodate any spin they want to put on their evil deeds.


I would strike the term "evil" as it is a partisan term. But yes...they know how to spin...regardles if I agree with their actions (I don't).



There is a danger in using a high profile subject because of the danger of the high volume of interactions with other people he/she may have. The more people involved with the subject the more likely hood of someone noticing something that just isn't right.


Brilliant point.



The pharmaceuticals that are not for the general public? I wish the walls at Guantanamo could talk!


I have viewed a list from Springmeier. While their is some negative connotation with Springmeier, a bit of research (in my experience) vetted some of his work.

I'll post it when I get a chance in the next day...



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 



The interesting aspect is that normal human behaviour is not meant to be a routine...it's a societally propagated mode that people identify with normal. And when voicing concerns and curiosities outside of societally accepted communication is viewed as an issue (and it is in many cases) then people end up suppressing thoughts and behaviours that are other wise normal. It's the percieved denigration of basic human impulse that motivates some adverse behaviour. And for the record...my friends know what I think and what I do online.


You are absolutely correct. I'll re define what I meant. What I meant to say is that we all have our comfort zones. We know what our routine is and we perform it and we expect to see others in a similar routine. Mess with these prescribed comfort zones and there are problems.

You are correct also in saying that human behaviour is not meant to be a routine. Yet we all like our comfort zones that we have established inside of this monetarily driven system that we support and defend don't we? You see, part of the programming has already been established for much of the worlds population.

Ever see some weird guy on your way to the grocery store or something? Or you see something going on, but you have to get where your going and someone else will more than likely take care of it. Or, your just about to watch your favorite television show and the phone rings? These seemingly benign things would take us out of our comfort zone and we don't like it one bit.



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


This is the control mechanism behind the current US government system. Keep us placated with 50" HDTV, digital cable, and XBOX.

Take the recent Tea Party movement. It is cited as some major deal. Yes, a bunch of folks showed up, but for only 1 day? That isn't a protest. Know why? Because you can't miss more than 1 day of work without real trouble, and no one wants to give up that upcoming 1 year XBOX Live Gold subscription that is coming due.

It is laziness, sloth...a human trait. Coupled with greed. Yes, it works quite well at putting the humans into their "comfort zones". no, we weren't designed for it. Nor were we designed to sit at desks, using a mouse and staring at a computer screen. but we sure are good at it!



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 



It is laziness, sloth...a human trait. Coupled with greed. Yes, it works quite well at putting the humans into their "comfort zones". no, we weren't designed for it. Nor were we designed to sit at desks, using a mouse and staring at a computer screen. but we sure are good at it!


Hey, I consider this a necessary excersise to continually make myself cognizant of the reality in which we find ourselves. Laziness, sloth not at all. Just well programmed. If the veil was lifted we'd realize our full potential and they can't have that now can they?

Does it go this deep? Am I just projecting a scenario to give us all a reason for our complacency? No way, but if the time I am able to spend online conversing with like minded individuals was interrupted, I wouldn't like it one bit!



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


Not sure if this has anything to do with acid...but I am pretty sure I got set up with a spook lab partner in high school. Out of nowhere, mid-semester- comes this guy who looked exactly like Hoover in 'Animal House', with one of those cute play-on-words-names. He was sort of like a young parent in his mannerisms, and seemed a few years beyond 17, if you know what I mean. Whether I was dosed or not wouldn't matter. I don't even know what acid has to do with the thread title, which caused me to recall this guy today. I ought to check the yearbooks and try to see where he came, where he went. Pretty sure, looking back, he was a total plant. Why? Because I was toyed with as a child by some heavies, and it seems at times that the little astral trips I been on lately are kind of out of this world. Gets to the point where you start seeing connections that would put acid to shame. Never knowingly tried it, but I have seen people on it, and their general lack of interest in life and existence always plopped them right in the middle of a hellish ten cent trinket shop. Stupid things, stupid memories, some cracked up pretty hard in hospitals. You'd visit this guy and he holds a sketch saying 'I want to play' while hissing spittle from a shock induced cranium. As I recall, this one was all bummed because he wanted to be famous by 25, or bust. Every single time this friend would come over, he would completely kill any deep interest I had in anything.

But yeah....the spook had a real fake, double entendre name. Would love to say it...but better not.



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


To elaborate on the story (or two other MKUltra-related stories) would be off topic. The point in the story above is that the '___' was put in the student's drink using "sleight of hand". It was NOT seen.

Now, I've been tutored in CT since 1967 or so and it wasn't until a few years ago (five maybe) that I came across the MKUltra story on the net and BAM! All the lights went off and connected! That student in the story wasn't "making this up" afterall!

He thought he was being interviewed for employment. His family was cop-friendly so to speak. I remember the story as an "FBI" man though. Perhaps I mixed my alphabet soup too much - or - perhaps the student mixed his alphabet agencies - or perhaps they "posed" as FBI.

They met at a student bar to discuss his future. A future, he never had.

*mutters MIBs and logs off*



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 01:56 AM
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I should add this...as life went on I saw a plethora of spooks emerge. One helped con the family business out of a nice salary while instructing everyone to run around with a paintbrush painting stripes on the floor, while simultaneously torpedoing my ass, as the company went under. His name was bill pettigrew, and he was slime. Very little grew ha ha. Another spook I busted so bad he was blushing, as he tried to pretend that we were seated in his office at a machine shop. Caught him bad in a lie, and his voice was all over the place. No wonder they have to frame innocent arabs now. This one was named vitro. He looked like Chaz Palmiteri. I think they had bugs up my ass since the ago of 4, maybe from birth, I am a little pissed that the Kaiser Soze quote was ripped from my study, and that 'curb your enthusiasm' from a reproach I gave to a pet in my backyard... You know, you really can't invent anything, or write a story if they 'own you', as they believe they do, so why bother. That's the secret to my soul. It's a free ride for me, due to oppressive technological reindeer games. I mean...it ALL belongs to the jews, you know? But by now there's no possibility of having any companionship. I learned that none of them matter. If you will, their servant is now their master. Let the jews fight over the mkultra tripe with the soviets or whatever. I know the zionist touch. Always with the hollywood stage fright humiliation routines. The Germans are so much nicer. It's all remote control now. Satellites, millimeter scanners, thought saturated pulsed microwaves...Like Pynchon said, in '73. There is still time.....but not anymore (I say). Hopefully, the beam will be aimed right where it belongs. It's coming, you know. I can feel them trying to take me apart, when I rest, jealous of what God won't give them for their evil. zap. Jolt. zap. jolt. They scar the amygdala and you lose fear. They hit the parietal lobes and when you manage to regain your memory (it helps to learn foreign sentences and keep them in the memory until 12 hours pass) you have your old memories back and even more memory space than before the hack. I guess that's where all the alzheimers is coming from, and some say they can scribe illness right on your cells. (they use a sort of electrorheological chain pattern) It's like fantasy to imagine a girl handling this scenario. Could you imagine the first date? As if I'm going to hold to some sort of conversational etiquette! Usually someone would just slash a tire while we'd be inside the restaurant eating. After a while the girls were elevated to high positions in the fashion world, for their trouble, after a date or two, with me. Later on, with tech advances, their cell would ring while we were first meeting, and they'd zoom away without a word.

HE'S AWAKE HE'S opened his eyes!!!! Turn it off...

Then the spun dreams come...I'll try to stay on the right track, and take it all, giving them nothing but spitfire in return.

[edit on 14-2-2010 by davidmann]

[edit on 14-2-2010 by davidmann]



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 04:43 AM
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If I was a CIA agent, I'd be using any and all means at my disposal. The only considerations would be to plausible denial, personal welfare and not bringing attention to the Company. Spiking drinks to cause distress and paranoia of a target wouldn't matter at all...and is almost impossible to prove. The Mk-Ultra experiments and even the treatment of Paul Bennewitz reveals a different set of moral guidelines and are subject to bigger pictures than we know of.

A lot of these field studies in social engineering and manipulation led to the strategies used to inculcate dissent in foreign nations. Destabilising communities and 'stirring the pot' to ensure sock-puppet/US friendly leaders gained power is a legitimate outcome to these guys. Spiking drinks with one of many chemicals can eliminate foreign agents, opposing interests etc. Extraordinary rendition highlights what the CIA is willing to do to achieve a goal.

If these guys want to pretend their skirts are clean...let 'em, it's what they always do. IMO an agency that sanctioned arms-supply, drug-dealing and assassination in that time period would have no issue at all spiking drinks. It'd be naive or plain idiotic to believe them on this one.



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