ATS label all Global Warming threads as HOAX

I find it interesting (read infuriating) that the climate-change zombies always harp on the increases in greenhouse gases. They never seem to want to discuss the measurable reductions in greenhouse gases.

Between 1970 and 2006 in the United States (supposedly the "Big Bad Wolf" of greenhouse gas emission), annual carbon monoxide emissions fell from 197 million tons to 89 million tons. That's much more than a 50% reduction in carbon monoxide emissions. So we know we're emitting half as much carbon as we were in the 70s, right?

Additionally, during the same time frame (1970-2006), annual nitrogen oxide emissions fell from 27 million tons to 19 million tons; sulfur dioxide emissions fell from 31 million tons to 15 million tons; particulate emissions fell by 80% and lead emissions fell by more than 98%

In other words, since 1970, the USA has cleaned up its act and has been an environmental crusader compared to the rest of the world.

Critics say that America should carry the burden of scrubbing the atmosphere clean because we're "the biggest polluters" on the planet. Which is nonsense. It's propaganda. Manmade greenhouse gases from the North American continent comprise about 25% of the total manmade greenhouse gas pollution on planet Earth.

True, that's a lot, but it aint 75%, which is how much manmade carbon dioxide the rest of the world pumps into the atmosphere. The secret is, the rest of the world can't afford to clean up their own mess.

That's why Kyoto don't fly, baby. Without the economic and technological superpower of the United States to PAY for the overhaul, the rest of the world can't make Kyoto work.

The USA is like the arc-reactor in Iron Man's chest. Without it, you have a sick, weak, shell of a Kyoto treaty. They need the USA's money.

That's what this is all about...

M.O.N.E.Y.


— Doc Velocity

reply to post by endisnighe


I'm not trying to be rude, but I am so over people debating the Global Warming issue. The point is that we are completely trashing this plant. We pollute, waste and fill the atmosphere with crap. We are disrespecting the very place that feeds us, gives us air to breathe and water to survive. Because of pure laziness and greed we take it all for granted and disrespect it. Humans are so stupid (myself included). We complain about people smoking because it stinks, yet we drive cars that fills the air with crap. Honestly, we are all spoiled brats (especially Corporate America). Do you realize that the earth is a living thing? You should really go see The Road. Seriously. Scary stuff. Now go plant a tree and show some respect to Mother Earth.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Money you say? Looks like America doesn't have much of that anymore. Try the Chinese, they pretty much own America due to our incredible debt.

reply to post by Doc Velocity

Zombies? How mature to use blanket insults!
Zombies are zombies because they can see changes happening? Okay....

I never did see any links for proof of your obviously opinionated claims.
Although I did find this:

The Protocol was initially adopted on 11 December 1997 in Kyoto, Japan and entered into force on 16 February 2005. As of November 2009, 187 states have signed and ratified the protocol.[2] The most notable non-member of the Protocol is the United States, which is a signatory of UNFCCC and was responsible for 36.1% of the 1990 emission levels.

en.wikipedia.org...
No wonder we dont want to pay, we would owe the most if it is related
to who pollutes the most!
We dont have any money anyway, we gave it all to the rich and had
a false flag war along the way.

It really is all about money, more for me and screw the next generation!
Berry intrestin' article here:

How America Plotted to Stop Kyoto Deal

Mr Horner, whose CEI group has received almost $1.5m (£865,000) from ExxonMobil, is convinced that Europe could be successfully influenced by such a policy coalition just as the US government has been.

www.commondreams.org...

It has been drawn up by Chris Horner, a senior official with the Washington-based Competitive Enterprise Institute and a veteran campaigner against Kyoto and against the evidence of climate change. One of his colleagues -- who describes himself as an adviser to President George Bush -- was the subject of a censure motion by the Commons last year after he attacked the Government's chief scientist.

www.corpwatch.org...
Ooops, another conspiracy, dang it!
Nah, nothing going on here, keep moving.


[edit on 2-12-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

Fair enough, just so we do not end up with a new Global Governance after the Copenhagen Treaty meeting.

We also need to stop the Cap and Tax bill in the senate.

Well my man if we can agree on the second part and let the science do its thing we have a deal.

But I ask of you, IF, one day it is discovered, unequivocally that mankind is inducing its own end thru it's industrial, etc... activity, that you will bite the bullet and support what is good for the human race even if it is detrimental to your ideological beliefs.

That is what I am doing to some degree, I am not sure about the science, but I can see see the implications of C&T... Even though it could damage any and all future science that may emerge.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by endisnighe

 

While I agree that man made global warming has not been proven I dont think it should be labelled a hoax as of yet. We simply dont have enough data to give an indication wether its a natural or man made event. Meteorological observational data doesnt go back far enough to prove either one correct, and while it is true that the data was manipulated (my organisation is one of the departments that had emails in this), it still doesnt mean that its a hoax.

I agree as well. I have been studying and researching Meteorology and Climatology for at least 10-12 years now (Meteorology for even longer), and I initially believed in AGW; that was until this past decade proved the projections incorrect. However, I do believe that ALL sides must be given fair and proper hearings, especially when considering the current state of politicized science these days. I beseech EVERYONE to absolutely abolish the politics from this crucial scientific field, and allow for the true scientists and researchers to finally be granted equal voices and debate opportunities.

Global warming seems to me to be a worry in the wrong direction.

Even looking at the worst possible predictions of man made Global warming the far bigger concern IMHO would be Cooling, when a single large volcanic explosion could correct global warming entirely and reverse the trend for decades or longer perhaps to a degree that could cause far more damage in regards to crops the locations of most of the 1st world from Europe Russia and North America, i think are odds of cooling are much greater.

Particularly given that enough global warming would maybe melt enough Ice to cut of the NA Current and create an Ice Age...

What i'm saying is the Earth seems to have quite powerful mechanisms in place to cool itself and Ice Ages follow very regular patterns and it would seem that even if we are warming the Earth we are still guaranteed to have another inevitable Ice Age so it's not actually life or death. Yes water levels coul rise for a time but I think we are equipped to deal with that via relocation damns maybe even Harness the Ocean for energy purposes

But in the end an ice Age is something we could never do anything about if snow keeps falling from the sky over Europe Canada and Russia

Movement 20 miles inland is doable, movement of 700 Million people South to the DENSER population zones is impossible those people would all die.

Frankly we have a far greater long term fear of cooling than we do of over heating.

We KNOW the next ice Age will come and it's effects and changes are far greater than any warming trend we will ever produce.

Frankly a few points extra temperature may well work out to be a good thing.


I think... we have a major way of looking at the small picture and ignoring the bigger long term problems.

To all those who dont want to label it a hoax because there is not enough known yet about the effect of humanity on climate change..............

I completely agree with you all except for the fact that even though we don't have enough information to say for sure, WE ARE STILL GOING TO GET TAXED & CONTROLLED by the PTB over something that has yet to be verified and is looking less and less likely to be true.

I don't know about you guys but that kind of pisses me off!

Its interesting this climategate is just before Kopenhagen. But dont loose your heads people, who really red the authentic emails?[how hacked are they] not from some blog of conservative pundit Blot. Most of the graphs are about England.We are not talking about numbers only about interpretating graphs..
Its not really open minded to say all threads about GW should be labelled hoax, what about the facts of peakoil?[the oil maffia which is a very powerfull lobby] about our production and transport of food [dependant on the price of oil]In most of Europe we had carbon tax since the beginning of the 90's, remember that golden decade of stocks?[specially the end]

And i dont hear people about greenhouse effect of Carbon DI-oxide, do you really think that is a hoax? Tell that to the people in the Phillipines, Bangladesh etc.. and this denying that the North pole is melting is just ridiculous..Its not either the sun activity or either global man made warning, it might be both

reply to post by endisnighe


I too am against this at this time. Yes we know some info was fudged or inaccurately reported. I don't see that as proof yet that Global Warming does not exist.

It may be that it does exist but the Governments fudged the data even more to support their hard line agenda.

At the very least some good has come from all of this.

The world is aware of Green Energy and alternative forms of energy that are now being developed. That would never have happened if there was never a Global Warming scare.

We still have to fight to lessen our dependence on natural gas and oil and ultimately shut down these companies and their monopolies.

Has it occurred to anyone that this whole ClimateGate thing may be a scam to get the Greeners to back down because the "threat of Global Warming" no longer exists? This would give these oil company monopolies a reason to say, "see, no threat, no reason for us to stop using oil products."

That is the interesting thing about leaked disinformation. It can be made to look like the good guys found it when it was a plant the whole time. We must be wary and question everything.

Can global warming be the cause of our own pole shifts ? That would make far more sense than our pollution. Seriously has anyone left a compass in the same area for about 6 months to see if the degree has changed?
POLE SHIFT
[edit on 2-12-2009 by Jordan River]

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Jordan River]

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Jordan River]

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Jordan River]

I agree. Valiant, but premature. The issue is simply too fresh and legal courts worldwide (as well as the media) have yet to tackle the issue. Wait until after Copenhagen. That's when the steam will really start rolling.

The 3 facts:

*Greenhouse effect warms the planet
*Greenhouse gases contribute to greenhouse effect
*Humans pump huge quantities of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere

Anybody here who does not agree with the above?

[edit on 2-12-2009 by rhinoceros]

Originally posted by rhinoceros
The 3 facts:

*Greenhouse effect warms the planet
*Greenhouse gases contribute to greenhouse effect
*Humans pump huge quantities of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere

Anybody here who does not agree with the above?

[edit on 2-12-2009 by rhinoceros]

I agree with it. But our industrial technology hasn't been around for awhile to be honest. we're still prettry young in industrial technology. It hasn't been that long enough for it to be our fault. that's what i'm saying

More or less pole shift makes far more sense

Originally posted by Jordan River
I agree with it. But our industrial technology hasn't been around for awhile to be honest. we're still prettry young in industrial technology. It hasn't been that long enough for it to be our fault. that's what i'm saying

More or less pole shift makes far more sense

So for example this has happened because of pole shift? Seriously?

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by Jordan River
I agree with it. But our industrial technology hasn't been around for awhile to be honest. we're still prettry young in industrial technology. It hasn't been that long enough for it to be our fault. that's what i'm saying

More or less pole shift makes far more sense

So for example this has happened because of pole shift? Seriously?

Why not? Perhaps our atmosphere is thinning out due to the shift and also by the suns rays and it has weakened making our CD intake increase than decrease

BTW. Edgar Cacye did claim on a pole shift but claimed that it would be called something else. Waaalah Global warming. (Saw it on History channel) (No source

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Jordan River]

Originally posted by Jordan River
Why not? Perhaps our atmosphere is thinning out due to the shift and also by the suns rays and it has weakened making our CD intake increase than decrease

So what you are saying is that pole shift somehow increases atmospheric CO2 concentration? Now you need to tell us why this is and explain the working mechanism (for example where does the CO2 come from). Before that you should however explain how burning fossil fuels doesn't increase the CO2 concentration of our atmosphere. Also explain why 12C/13C ratio in atmospheric CO2 increases..

Is this reaction (burning of methane, the most simple organic hydrocarbon) somehow wrong?

CH4 + 2 O2 ⇒ CO2 + 2 H2O

[edit on 2-12-2009 by rhinoceros]

whether or not man made global warming is real or not, and its very debatable, to me its obvious that we are having a negative effect on the planet. Oil Spills, mining, pollution, toxic waste, etc. We've destroyed thousands of ecosystems and made places on this earth uninhabitable. doesnt matter if global warming is real or not, we, as humans, are not living the way we should be.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by Jordan River
Why not? Perhaps our atmosphere is thinning out due to the shift and also by the suns rays and it has weakened making our CD intake increase than decrease

So what you are saying is that pole shift somehow increases atmospheric CO2 concentration? Now you need to tell us why this is and explain the working mechanism (for example where does the CO2 come from). Before that you should however explain how burning fossil fuels doesn't increase the CO2 concentration of our atmosphere.

Is this reaction (burning of methane, the most simple organic hydrocarbon) somehow wrong?

CH4 + 2 O2 ⇒ CO2 + 2 H2O

[edit on 2-12-2009 by rhinoceros]

Well I just don't think the atmosphere can handle CO2 the way it used to with our pole shift happening. check out my pole shift source above. So what i'm saying is that it may be our Co2. (a little bit seeing how cows produce far more). I just can't believe that our 100 years+ of automobiles and industrial revolution would of created such a problem so quickly. Co2 is produced everywhere btw. Perhaps our sun is beating our atmosphere to death that it has increased in Co2. Pole shift has weakened our atmosphere. why not? I'm not at any means smart in this area. But when it comes down to common sense of our pole shift that is happening one would assume that it has to do with other implications such as Global warming.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by endisnighe

 

While I agree that man made global warming has not been proven I dont think it should be labelled a hoax as of yet. We simply dont have enough data to give an indication wether its a natural or man made event. Meteorological observational data doesnt go back far enough to prove either one correct, and while it is true that the data was manipulated (my organisation is one of the departments that had emails in this), it still doesnt mean that its a hoax.

I agree. Something is going on, its just not 100% clear what the main generator of the issue is. I say "main" because without a doubt mans continued cesspooling of the enviroment is having some impact.