The problem lies with us men!

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posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by badgerprints
 


I see. So you made a decision that turn out not well, and now all women are bad...or good. Nothing like making your decisions in life based on a small self-selected sample reinforced by gender disparity and societal gender constructs. Good for you.


Oh no,
I made a fantastic decision. I got to be a part of a wonderful persons life for five years. I loved and cared for that little girl and I got back much more than I put into it. It wasn't a bad decision at all.

As far as all women being bad or good, obviously we know that's not true. Just as all men are not bad or good.

As far as making my decisions based on "a small self-selected sample reinforced by gender disparity and societal gender constructs."

What you actually are saying is my EXPERIENCE in life.

Yes,
Experience has shown me that despite every degree of fairness and reason I have and believe in, there are others who are one sided and selfish in their endeavours.

I'd happily get married and let the woman do all of the earning so I could stay at home and raise the children. I really don't care about your opinions based on a small self-selected sample reinforced by gender disparity and societal gender constructs.




posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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In that you have eyes, and know that you'll be surfing and going to hooters. And you don't see that lens of assumption is demeaning.

My father and my husband have stayed home with children for periods of time. I was not surfing and eating exclusively bon-bons when I did so, and neither were they. The assumption that this is the case, is unjustified as a group even if you find it true sometimes.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:45 PM
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Sexism and misogyny the way it was is disgusting, and I doubt we'll return to it as it was pre-1950s.
We have a "new men's movement" that aligns itself with new, and even reversed gender-roles to varying degrees.
However, I recently read Warren Farrel's "The Myth of Male Power: Why men are the disposable sex" (Fourth Estate, 1994).This could be called part of a "men's movement", similar (but opposite) to feminism.
Not sure I remember all the theses cogently, but it argues that men and women are servants of each other by mutual choice.
However, it is still the male sex that faced conscription, the most dangerous and stressful jobs, and a fate as the general scapegoat and sacrificial lamb of both male and female society.
The idea that all women are "liberal" pacifists is quickly discounted. Queen Elisabeth sent thousands (perhaps millions) of young men to their deaths, and that's just one example.
However, in the late 1960s, when young women wrote of a "room of their own", young men faced a "body bag of their own" in Vietnam.
Men faced constant pressure to deliver lifestyles to women, and suffered from significantly shorter life-spans (and shorter life-spans in any other group are considered a result of victimization). One of the saddest chapters is the author describing garbage-collecting men, who are daily threatened by serious injury, parasites and noxious chemicals. The same goes for miners and builders on a scaffold. These men deserve danger pay, although some woman will benefit.
And what about sex? If a man goes too slow he's impotent or a nerd; if he goes too fast it's abuse.
So let's have equality: conscipt all young women, send them to the frontlines, mines and scaffolds, and give men the stay-home or cushy office jobs. Let's have redress and equality!

[edit on 1-12-2009 by halfoldman]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
In that you have eyes, and know that you'll be surfing and going to hooters. And you don't see that lens of assumption is demeaning.


Do you know the concept of sarcasm? Did you actually take that seriously?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:10 PM
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You're absolutely right. Women used to rule in many, many cultures, and still do in many families, but methinks men's egos (and probably their testosterone levels or something) would not allow this to go on, at least not in public, so things sort of changed. Women have proven fit rulers still today, but for some reasons we can speculate further on, seem to be almost physically blocked from doing so in, oh say, the U.S. to name one.

I believe women can rule the world if they all quit some of petty fascination with raising children, fashion, and the like and FOCUSED (or at the very least withheld sex for oh say three days). Women, are you listening?


Actually, I do find that men have many redeeming values and even embrace and value the differences between the genders. I just wish some of these differences would go away already and that we would better at recognizing peoples' (both men's and women's) talents and let them do what it is they do best, whatever that many be.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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I know women have been worthy rulers of many nations (Britain, Argentina, Liberia, Germany, Jordan...) However, the US had Hilary racing against Obama in the Democratic elections, so how did that block women? If all women had consistantly voted for a female President the US would have had one, or not?
It may be a generalized statement: but in SA I'd rather be a female prostitute than a male who is forced down into Anglo-American mines.
Much is made of prostitution and the horrors women face, but one day in the life of a miner is far more terrible. These men don't expect to live long, with constant threats of cave-ins and poor mine safety. Why should they care about HIV and infecting women?
Because of our shared cultural sexism against men, women's suffering is moralized, but the daily forced suicide of men is ignored.
Until the Western hypocrites truly care for both genders, neither will be happy, and that's a promise. And most of the planet is doing jobs that the privileged couldn't imagine in their worst nightmares - and no gender, race or creed should be doing them at all.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by halfoldman]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


All your post proves is that men will put up with just about anything if it means that they might get a slice of the power. As a group, they are readily paid off for their submission in the price of legal control and ownership over other people.

Brilliant.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by Aeons
In that you have eyes, and know that you'll be surfing and going to hooters. And you don't see that lens of assumption is demeaning.


Do you know the concept of sarcasm? Did you actually take that seriously?


I do. However, this sort of sarcasm has a noticeable reverse bias involved that I am responding too. The sarcasm invokes that the woman in comparison does the female equivalent of this. This is what I am responding too. The underlying assumption that your sarcasm is using.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 

Assuming I understood you correctly: yeah, I guess we learnt from the females. Especially the shanty towns of prostitutes around the mines.
We need to uplift both genders to overcome oppression.



[edit on 1-12-2009 by halfoldman]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 05:32 AM
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Well it looks like I started a little debate. So far from the responses here I can see that a lot of my male counter parts still have not pulled themselves out of the dark ages. On behalf of them, to all of man and woman kind, I can only apologise.

I did not realise that ATS was full of knuckle draggers. Thought this was the home of the enlightened. Again, I ask you....LOOK AT THE FIGURES. Only took me about 5 minutes to research that data. I you can't see that us men need to "Find another way" , then we are screwed. Shut down ATS , close your doors and forget planning for a better future. With people like you around we are all #ed.!!!

To the one person who said they would rather stay at home and look after the kids and "Play on the internet all day", all I can say is you surley have never ever looked after a child. A child wakes up at about 6am. And probably goes to bed at around 7pm. During those 12-13 hours you have to work non stop. I've done it. Would I also kill time playing on the web, or would I focus on my childs development, hmmmmmmmm, touch one that.

And also, to the same knuckle dragger. What makes you think a female can't earn as much as a man. Yes, unfortunatley its still a greater challenge for a woman to earn as much as men.....due to other men dictating to women there worth.

My wife earns a wedge , so do I. We are average in education. Both director level. Both share everything 50:50.....ok I do more cooking but only cos I like it.

What Im saying is that we need Balance. I don't have much faith in Humanity, even less in men. But maybe if we have balance in our society , equal representation, equal power. Then maybe the world would work a little better.

Being a male, it means we have to stop and think a bit more thats all. Example. Travelling to London the otehr day on business. Someone was speeding and tail gating me at 80mph on the M1 , even though there was loads of traffic in front of me. He was f'ing and blinding at me to move.

Now instantly I wanted to slam on my brakes , stop the car, get out, and start ranting at this flipin idiot. Instead , I pulled in let him pass and just breathed and relaxed.

Us men need to be a lot more self aware. Yes we are all capable of doing great things, and yes men are better than women at some, and women are better than men at some things as well.

But tell me this, what use is our constant male posturing, our anger, our agression. It serves no purpose.

I see it all the time in business. The chap who I have a meeting with to discuss growing their business, introducing new products, making millions. Some people seem to enter into the room with huge ego's , huge anger and an attempt at dominance. My life would be easier, if I could walk into a meeting and not have to spend the 1st hour trying to get the meeting on a plain level.

Guys, im not saying women don't need to walk up a few stairs towards something better. But surley you can see that we are much further down those stairs .

Another FACT.....20% of relationships in the UK suffer from domestic violence from the man. Some people say its actually more than that. If men on such a large scale can commit acts so hanus, what makes you think that these people in power won't do the same thing. I mean those figures are just cringe worthy for me to see. Why on earth would you want to hit anyone, let alone a family member, LET ALONE YOUR WIFE/S.O.

Again....the numbers are there in plain view.

If you feel like writing a reponse saying "Well thats just men, testosterone makes us do funny things, thats just the way of the world" . Then thats a feeble excuse. You can stop and think and CHOOSE TO CHANGE. CHOOSE A DIFFERENT WAY.

You know , like you know, like you know Im not wrong on this.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by kilas
 


The problem is not with men, it is with people.

I come from Glasgow, a city well known for it's crime, violent assaults and murder. It was only a few years ago it was named the murder capital of Europe.

The point being, i've seen my fair share of assaults, and been involved in a few aswell and i have to honestly say that the majroity of them where caused by woman. It either included a man defending the honour of his girlfriend, wife, female friend or trying to stop her from fighting someone herself.

Only several weeks ago, i was walking through the town center and a group of youths (neds, chavs, townies or whatever you know them as) were standing shouting abuse at random passers by, most of the ones shouting the abuse were all girls. One of the girls shouted in a guys face asking "Are you staring at my t*ts?", when the guy replied "No", she said "Why not?" and then her and her friends gave the guy a doing.

Now i'm not saying it's only girls that do this, it's clearly not, like i stated above it's people that are the problem. You get bad guys, and bad woman, some of them are violent, and some of them are not.

It's not possible to narrow it down to one gender, or group of people, because ultimately all people are capable of violence and evil.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 08:24 AM
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I was going to verbally slap some sense into you OP, I must admit. However, it is apparent to me, you are the product of many years of oppression and belittlement. You had absolutely no say in the matter. You are a prime example, of what is happening to men all around the globe right now. You have lost your sense of identity, you have lost your pride, your physqiue, your maleness! You are a female with a penis OP, like many around the globe today. You are an underdeveloped degenerate... I'm not at all sorry to say!

First, I'd like to say, it is extremely disturbing to me, that there are men out there who think like you. Although, this is not the worst of my worries. What scares me even more, is the fact that there are many many men who think just like you out there.

You think, you are more evolved, more intelligent than the majority of men right? You couldn't be more wrong. In fact it's just the opposite, you pathetic fool! The truth of the matter is, you have been brainwashed, poisoned, lied to, and god knows what else... By, the feminists, corporations, and the degenerate half men that make up our world today.

I've seen it the world crumbling down around me, men's lives being completely destroyed by our society. My father's life destroyed, brother's life destroyed. Do you realize, that men between the ages of 18 - 25 commit suicide SEVEN TIMES MORE OFTEN, than women now do. On average, testosterone levels are half of what they were in the 60s. Males now are shorter and have lighter voices than ever before. Males are becoming more passive than ever before. Memory problems in men have shot up ~1000% in the last 30 years. We are being attacked full force OP, completely blindsided.

I want you to do a little research. Find films, documentaries, any video from the 30s - 50s. I want you to compare men's voices, physique, character, with the gangster half-wits of our generation. You will, then see exactly what I'm talking about.



[edit on 2-12-2009 by sliceNodice]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 08:47 AM
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I simply think it all has to do with balance, the right men and the right women, the ones who really do care about the majority of the population and not the elite minority, are the one's who never get to far in politics, the reason being, is because they are seen as "weak" when they're anything but, It's a catch 22 yea there are bad women and men and they seem to run 100 percent of things. The only way it will change is when people stop mistaking kindness for weakness. Just my thoughts on the whole subject. I think there should be a psychological exam for anyone who wants to enter politics, you know the sort you take for certain other jobs you apply for, where they ask you questions relative to teh job you are applying trying to get a response to see what personality you have, if you're too violent or shrt tempered etc? If you'd be dishonest/or steal...That's my solution, but hey, they'd probably jsut lie on the test anyway? who knows?



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by kilas
 

The problem of violence with men is a problem in masculinity as a role, rather than the male gender itself. Women help to create that masculinity every day. Who gets all the female dates from highschool - the gentle male bookworm? I think not. The aggro rugger-bugger jock more likely.
Does anyone have any stats on violence in lesbian relationships? Apparently it is quite a serious problem. Men who suffer domestic abuse often do so in silence, so those stats prove little, and women should leave their abusers, which they often refuse to do.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Aeons
 

Assuming I understood you correctly: yeah, I guess we learnt from the females. Especially the shanty towns of prostitutes around the mines.
We need to uplift both genders to overcome oppression.



[edit on 1-12-2009 by halfoldman]


Yeah. The shanty town that was there because, men made laws that said women could not work. Men made laws saying women couldn't own land. Men made laws backed up with violence about the acceptable jobs a woman might have. When those women did not fall into the right category, of having a man to look after them, they had no other way to earn a living.

Better. Men made laws saying that women could only have legal protections in being wed, or with their father or a male relative. While divorce stats today are 50% (with a significant number actually remarrying the orginal person), the 'ABANDONMENT' rates of for families - where the man left the family - was.....about 50%.

If those women had no male relatives, they had no education....because men made laws saying that women shouldn't be educated....they had no means of support for themselves or their children. So some turned to prostitution.

Men made laws saying that women couldn't be raped if they were married. And laws that made it legal for them to beat their wives and children. And laws that allowed them to give away their daughters without their consent. And THOUSANDS of other laws, that you find have subjugated YOU.

You keep on piling on the hate darling. You hate women. Deeply. Strongly. You are not about uplifting. You lie out of all sides of your mouth so fast you could be a used car salesman.

I have an idea. Maybe making laws to subjugate women subjugated men. SHOCKING. Perhaps you ought to not do that anymore.

Of course, many still will. Many people can be bought off to ignore human tragedy with the ownership of the people around them.

[edit on 2009/12/2 by Aeons]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by kilas
 

The problem of violence with men is a problem in masculinity as a role, rather than the male gender itself. Women help to create that masculinity every day. Who gets all the female dates from highschool - the gentle male bookworm? I think not. The aggro rugger-bugger jock more likely.
Does anyone have any stats on violence in lesbian relationships? Apparently it is quite a serious problem. Men who suffer domestic abuse often do so in silence, so those stats prove little, and women should leave their abusers, which they often refuse to do.



The rates of domestic violence in lesbian relationships is less than the average. In male homosexual relationships, it is greater.

We're all shocked right?



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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I am a man, and for the idiots who say that the OP is a man with a vagina simply because he recognizes the problems the world faces today caused by us are just stupid.

Its obvious the facts and figures are right there for you too read, it IS men who are involved in crime mostly it IS men who fight after a night out.

trust me i know, just last thursday i went out and got to drunk and woke up not remembering a thing with a black eye and a swollen head i could not remember nothing about what i had done my body was on autopilot it seems but i still managed to get into a scrap, do you know why? because men are hardwired for aggression.

it happens everytime i drink too much, instead of falling down or being sick i end up aggresive.

Maybe in years gone by and i mean YEARS men had to be aggresive and protective to protect the family unit, But now in TODAYS world it should be run by women, decisions need to be made wisely and not chosen by who has the biggest dick or ego.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by Reading
 


Do not label all males like you. I have not hit anyone since i was 13, and i have had plenty of hassles in my life.

No matter how drunk i have been, i still do not, so saying your a man does not mean a thing.

Males are not all the same, and same with females.

One thing i am sick of is stereotyping males, with all this macho stuff, as males have to be a certain way, bull, i am not, and i am male.

Males that are aggressive should not judge other males, saying that they are like them. Thats your problem if your aggressive, and some who commit crimes. But i am not aggressive and i have never committed a crime, so how come if i am male, lol.

the stats are rubbish like i say, people do not goto the police about females, and thats one reason.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
I simply think it all has to do with balance, the right men and the right women, the ones who really do care about the majority of the population and not the elite minority, are the one's who never get to far in politics, the reason being, is because they are seen as "weak" when they're anything but, It's a catch 22 yea there are bad women and men and they seem to run 100 percent of things. The only way it will change is when people stop mistaking kindness for weakness. Just my thoughts on the whole subject. I think there should be a psychological exam for anyone who wants to enter politics, you know the sort you take for certain other jobs you apply for, where they ask you questions relative to teh job you are applying trying to get a response to see what personality you have, if you're too violent or shrt tempered etc? If you'd be dishonest/or steal...That's my solution, but hey, they'd probably jsut lie on the test anyway? who knows?


okay I guess I'm wrong????

second line



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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Congratulations kilas, you have successfully bought into a load of feminist propaganda, based on half-truths and outright lies, which has convinced you that you are an inferior specimen of humanity to those of another gender. You have now become the apotheosis of one who has singularly and spectacularly failed to deny ignorance, and as such are an object lesson to all posters on these boards.

The facts are that women are just as if not more likely than men to physically abuse their partners, especially with weapons; far more likely than men to commit infanticide (in fact 61% of all murdered children are killed by their mother) are far more likely to engage in emotional abuse of both children and their partners,
and are far more likely than men to lie under oath or to police in order to exact revenge upon others.


www.csulb.edu...

Furthermore while women have rarely fought in wars, they have often instigated wars, especially in tribal societies, by emotionally manipulating men into fighting them in order to "prove their manhood". Women are just as likely to cheat upon their spouses, and are more likely proportionately to abuse power or authority.

Bottom line, anyone who thinks women are "superior" to men, has been drinking the Kool-Aid, and any man who buys into this is an Aunt Tom.



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