Seattle police kill suspect in officer slayings

reply to post by apacheman


I can tell you have a good heart sir, but there's no magic in those milliseconds when you determine to fire, please, until you have done so, dont try to imagine it, it doesnt do it justice.

Look at the picture on this site where the ambulance is. Notice how dark it is before everything got lit up.

lakewood.komonews.com...

As the officer sat in his patrol car doing paperwork on the stolen car, he noticed a man was approaching the driver's side of the patrol car from behind.

The officer immediately recognized the man as matching the description of Clemmons and got out his patrol car, Pugel said.

"He ordered the person to stop. He ordered the person to show his hands, that person would not show his hands, and also began to run away counterclockwise around the vehicle," Pugel said.

How easy do you think it is to immediately recognize a black man under these conditions?

Just curious observation

Well at least this guy won't be able to kill or hurt anybody else.

Originally posted by Chronogoblin

Originally posted by SpaDe_

So they find the suspect and gun him down? Looks like the line "dead men tell no lies" still holds true. Not sure what to think about all of this. The only information being released is the official information coming straight from the PD. I hope that we see witnesses starting to come forward and giving their account of what really went down.

My first thought exactly, when I read the story. A lone officer 'finds' the suspect under mysterious circumstances, and guns him down when he 'refused to stop.' Conveniently lacking any witnesses (so far) to confirm or deny the officers story. Sounds like a win for Lawl Enforcement.

Chrono

The cop was investigating a vehicle that left running in the street and it turned out to be the one that the cop killer used. He turned around and saw the killer walking towards him, ordered him to surrender and he kept walking towards the cop. Knowing that this man had just killed 4 fellow cops AND one of their guns had been taken from them, the cop justly fired after ordering him 2 additional times to stop with the man reaching for what the cop appropriately believed was a weapon.

This is what I'm hearing from someone who lives in the Spokane area.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by mikelee]

reply to post by jimmyx


Still with the political baiting, should we bring up the skeleton's of the past Dems?

Pretty soon ignorant people like you will be ghosts here at ATS. The ignore button makes you invisible.

Dem=Repub or are you just too damn ignorant to understand that?

Jeeeez Idiot!

reply to post by jam321


Hard call on that one, it all smells like a bad pot of snafu stew. what are we talking here, maximum 30 second engagement?

Originally posted by jam321
Look at the picture on this site where the ambulance is. Notice how dark it is before everything got lit up.

lakewood.komonews.com...

As the officer sat in his patrol car doing paperwork on the stolen car, he noticed a man was approaching the driver's side of the patrol car from behind.

The officer immediately recognized the man as matching the description of Clemmons and got out his patrol car, Pugel said.

"He ordered the person to stop. He ordered the person to show his hands, that person would not show his hands, and also began to run away counterclockwise around the vehicle," Pugel said.

How easy do you think it is to immediately recognize a black man under these conditions?

Just curious observation

Well at least this guy won't be able to kill or hurt anybody else.

Thanks for the confirmed update!

reply to post by apacheman


Agreed. Especially with the last two. But I guess I can see the cops point of view. I can see a man who has already shown a history of killing in cold blood. I not seeing too much of a option to talk him down, especially if he makes movements that can be constude as life threatening. If it were me..I would have shot too. Even if he wasnt involved in the murders, he was stilla very dangerous man. Even if the cop gave his point of view, would you believe him? Or are you so jaded against law enforcement that it wouldnt matter?For the most part, you and I see things the same. I also do not take things at face value and reserve the right to make my own opinion, but towards law enforcement I think different than you. I know there are some bad cops, just as there are bad people in every business in society inculding doctors, nurses, people running charities. But for the most part, I think that they are all honest. I think that your view shouldnt be so narrow as to just include cops. Your view should include society as a whole. I think that by percentage, you'll find more bad people in society than in law enforcement.

Originally posted by SpaDe_
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

So, we should forgo trials in the US completely then? Sorry, but I diagree with you here. They have not even made it 100% possitive that this suspect was in fact the shooter, and now he is dead.

You're speaking of 100% and yet, trials in America are based on the benefit of a doubt.

Do you really think the guy, having the officer's gun in his car, who looked like the suspect in the police bulletin and whatever else evidence would have been acquired or... gasp! planted...

Do you really think he would have been able to prove himself innocent when given the burden of proof?

Better we save the 18,000+ per year it would cost to put this guy in prison for at least the next 30 years.

Originally posted by Bugman82

Originally posted by OpTiMuS_PrImE
No, actually it's the textbook example of an officer preserving his life. An armed and dangerous man who killed 4 other officers refuses commands given to him by the officer. The officer opens fire as the suspect sought cover and thankfully he was killed before a shootout occurred. The man was found to have a weapon on him belonging to one of the murdered officers.

What is so hard about this situation for people to understand? Do people not realize that officers have the right to preserve their life? If you were the officer what would you have done in the face of a man who is considered armed, dangerous, and refuses your orders?

So what if I'm a victim of police brutality or if the cops are deciding just to beat my ass with a gun in his hands and I'm unarmed, Dont I have a right also to " preserve my life "? because if I get beat up, chances are I could also be killed the process.. think about that for a couple of secs

and also, I think some of you are confused with the word "SUSPECT",

Suspect
v.tr.
To surmise to be true or probable; imagine: I suspect they are very disappointed.
To have doubts about; distrust: I suspect his motives.
To think (a person) guilty without proof: The police suspect her of murder

meaning HE could have been the one but then again, he MIGHT not be the one, he just a SUSPECT, now if he was suspect and the evidence shows that he the one then he would be known as a PREP (perpetrator)

if you dont know whats the difference just look for what it means.. here's one link on the word of "SUSPECT"

Wiki - Suspect (plz read what it says about that whole word)

So there you go

[edit on 1-12-2009 by MilzGatez]

Originally posted by jam321
Look at the picture on this site where the ambulance is. Notice how dark it is before everything got lit up.

lakewood.komonews.com...

As the officer sat in his patrol car doing paperwork on the stolen car, he noticed a man was approaching the driver's side of the patrol car from behind.

The officer immediately recognized the man as matching the description of Clemmons and got out his patrol car, Pugel said.

"He ordered the person to stop. He ordered the person to show his hands, that person would not show his hands, and also began to run away counterclockwise around the vehicle," Pugel said.

How easy do you think it is to immediately recognize a black man under these conditions? . . .

Try this link for the pictures.
Yours does not work for me.

columbiacity.komonews.com...

How safe is any black guy in America going to feel around a lone cop at night who wants him to stop these days? Running can't be assumed to be a sign of guilt, and nobody can be ID'd properly from a picture by looking in a rear-vision mirror at night.

If this policeman shot a cop-killer, it was more by good luck than good management.

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder

Originally posted by Bugman82
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

 

If an officer feels threatened he is allowed to use lethal force. If the officer waits to see a weapon it's already going to be too late for him.

This is a criminal who:
1.Went on a rampage targeting police officers
2. Has a history of violence
3. Was considered armed and dangerous
4. Was given orders by the officer to halt and refused thus earning himself the death penalty

There are two separate stories here floating around. One is about the police thinking they had the suspect holed up in a building. They called in SWAT. No one was present.

The second story is what really happened to him. He had stolen a car. An officer was inspecting the vehicle. The suspect approached and was killed.

and its sickening communists like you that beleive the cops are the judge and jury here.

Exactly!
Of course the officer "felt threatened", and now we'll only hear one side of the story, won't we?
The Moral: Don't approach an officer "of the law", or you'll be killed.
He was a suspect. Until he's had a chance to defend himself in court, he's innocent.

Originally posted by blueorder
Anyone any info on possible "reason" for the four murders in the first place- for example, does anyone know if the cops were plain clothed in the cafe etc?

Thats what I have been wondering also, what was the reason and was these individuals in uniform. Also how was it they where able to find out who this man was so fast. I mean, if it was a crime of opportunity how would even anybody know who he was. I want to believe that this guy was so deranged that he saw 4 cops in uniform and decided to attack. But if that was the case, why those cops and why that day. Whats stumping me is how they knew it was him. I believe it may be one of two things that happened.

One, he either goes there or went into that coffee shop like usual and in the process of getting coffee he either get looked at wrongly or is disrespected by one or more of the cops (no excuse for killing 4 people). Two he knew one or more of them from the street and felt like they disrespected him or somebody he knows and being in prison is of the mindset to attack the person who is doing the damage. Of course you remember that about a month ago in seattle a cop was ambushed and cop cars where burned by another person in retaliation for something (he was caught). I have no idea how the police do their job in seattle, but maybe maybe there is a rotten group that is making it dangerous for police in that area.


A large group on this forum was wondering why we are questioning the cops and essentially defending the guy who shot them. For years and years and years police have been caught killing, raping, dealing and doing as many crimes as the criminals they are tasked to take down. So its very easy for a person or persons to be skeptical about the police, especially if they have been on the wrong end of a cops attitude. You have to consider something, that police man and police woman CAN KILL YOU if they think your a danger. Not if your a danger but if THEY THINK your a danger. So to the people who accept the cops as judge jury and executioner, then you must accept that they will do the same thing to you. You say it couldn't happen to you because your not a criminal, here's a real life scenario. Somebody calls the cops and say a black man or a white man or whomever is in said house or apt. dealing drugs and such and have been doing it for months. Then the narcotics cops decide to knock down your door at 3 in the morning (because the snitch said so) while you sleep. You come out of your sleep in shock not knowing whats going on and seeing men in dark clothing with lights in your face yelling police (I guess only cops say police not criminals). And to make it easy for you I won't say you make a sudden movement and get shot by accident. You get handcuffed and pulled out of bed along with your wife and/or girlfriend in your underwear and are being held for questioning while they tear up your house looking for drugs (I'll even be generous that if they don't find anything they don't drop a bag of weed or whatever under your mattress to make a CASE OUT OF A MISTAKE).

They don't find anything and say they are sorry and pack up to leave your house and/or apt.. What do you feel when that happens to you or your loved one. I'm being real conservative, they could have charged you with something (like resisting arrest, thats a catch all) in order to make sure that you don't take them to court (we won't charge you if you don't report us). What do you feel, you feel violated if your human. You feel POWERLESS (thats the emotion they want to convey to you) to do anything. You feel helpless in front of your wife, kids and even yourself. In effect you feel like a bully came up to you and beat your ass and then told you to clean up the blood off the floor knowing that you can't do nothing.

It's an emotional think when you make a person feel helpless, or powerless. It brings back memories of when you where powerless or helpless and you promising that you would never let somebody or anything make you that way. They invaded your world view and your view of yourself, and reminded you that your a nobody (whether that was right or wrong). Just imagine a time that you where powerless and multiply it by ten and then have no way of doing anything about it and you will feel what it's like to be victimized by a institution that is supposed to help you.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by hoghead cheese]

Hell, think about it.

At least the american tax payers won't have to pay for this man to rot on death-row right?

The news stated the cops were in uniform. WBTW 13

And if it turns out they were NOT in uniform, the question should be how did the scumbag cop killer KNOW they were cops?

[edit on 1-12-2009 by mikelee]

I've never met a Cop Hater who was not a criminal themselves. Obviously people who can't get along in normal society hate Cops. That is exactly why we need them.

I can't help but wonder if at least a few of the posters are posting from Prison or some other Institution like a Half-Way House?

That brave Officer stopped an evil man on a killing spree. A man who rapes 12 year old girls and kills Cops. The worst of the worst. Only another very evil person could side with him against the Officer who was doing his job.

The people who helped him hide need to do Life in Prison themselves. I hope they nail every last one of those bastards to the wall. Hide a Baby Raper / Cop Killer you rot in jail forever is the message that needs to be sent here.

It is a shame he was killed. Life in Prison as a known child molester is what he truly deserved. Death is to easy and that is why I'm opposed to the Death Penalty. Lock them in a tiny room in the dark, throw them some table scraps and forget them until its time to bury them. No parole. No visitors. No books. No TV's. No Computers. Just a dark room with no windows and a crapper. Perhaps a bit of rope and hook on the ceiling.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


Completely agree, one less filthy animal to feed, provide free medical care for life.

reply to post by Blaine91555

I've never met a Cop Hater who was not a criminal themselves.

Have you met all cop haters? Do you imply all cop haters are criminals?

Obviously people who can't get along in normal society hate Cops.

Obviously you're a master at making blanket statements and don't realize some people have legit gripes against police officers.

That is exactly why we need them.

You aren't making much sense now. We need cops because people don't like cops?

I can't help but wonder if at least a few of the posters are posting from Prison or some other Institution like a Half-Way House?

So? Does it make their opinion any less valid? Good way to rely on fallacies, friend.

That brave Officer stopped an evil man on a killing spree.

The "brave officer" didn't stop an "evil man on a killing spree", he shot a man who was alleged to have killed four officers.

A man who rapes 12 year old girls and kills Cops.

ALLEGED. Now what proof do YOU have that he did what you said? Aside from media reports do you have any evidence to say he did the things you listed? Moreover, do not ask how do I know he didn't because the burden of proof resides with you, and in this country a person is supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

The worst of the worst. Only another very evil person could side with him against the Officer who was doing his job.

People are entitled to opinions, and many have opinions based on their personal experiences.

The people who helped him hide need to do Life in Prison themselves.

No they shouldn't. For all you know, if he did do the crimes he was accused of, he could have forced them to help him. They are presummed innocent until proven guilty, deal with it.

I hope they nail every last one of those bastards to the wall. Hide a Baby Raper / Cop Killer you rot in jail forever is the message that needs to be sent here.

I hope justice is served, and once again he was alleged to have done the things you listed.


[edit on 1-12-2009 by EMPIRE]

[edit on 1-12-2009 by EMPIRE]

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz

AWEsome - stories like this warm the cockles of my heart.

(no wasting money on 3 squares a day, cable tv, a bed, and a defense attorney)

A-friggen-men I'm a little bit drunk right now, and probably a little bit late on the wagon, but this punk got what he deserved! I don't know what the rest of you have been through, but I guarantee that if any of you were to look down the barrel of a gun that had killed your brothers, you wouldn't have done the same thing and sent that bitch mother #er straight to hell; killing people that selflessly put their lives on the line for you earns you a dishonorable, unclean death gets you a death like a dog - cowards die in shame.

reply to post by Ridhya


Funny how they don't take that sort of mentality when it's a civilian that gets killed, isn't it?

As a citizen of the Seattle Area, I say that this man saved me a lot of money on my taxes.

reply to post by Chance321


Five, counting the cops. no loss in any direction, possibly a net gain.