Unity of Myth | Act I: Rise of the Dragon

Originally posted by wylee
reply to post by serbsta

 

Sweet someone's interested.

Long Gu in Chinese or Os Draconis in Latin otherwise known as Dragon Bone. It's actually any fossilized bone, but Dragon works for me.

In Chinese Medicine it is used for calming the liver and the mind(shen).

'long' (dragon) and 'gu' is bone im guessing?

Wow that's fascinating. So the old folk actually consider it as real dragon bones? It makes sense that their fossiles ofcourse, could be anything, buts its amazing how the story of the dragon has stayed alive.

Thanks for that, will do more research on it.

Great read Serbsta.

It is a wonder how the dragon,serpent,snake permeated so many different cultures from all around the world. What would have been the common origin behind such an enigmatic symbol?

Well, it's no secret that most ancient cultures had a deep affinity and understanding of the stars. In fact many ancient myths, legends, and even religions derive their roots from how the peoples of that time perceived what was happening in the heavens above.

No doubt that no matter where you lived in the ancient world you most likely had an incredible view of the night sky, undisturbed by any light pollution... it must've been awe inspiring--

It's almost certain that many would have been able to see quite clearly the dark rift of our milky way with the galactic center glowing behind it.... and I'll tell you what, to me I can understand how the myth of the flying dragon, ouroburos, serpent, and snake metaphors came to be just by looking at it.

Have a look at our milky way-- you might notice what surely resembles a flying dragon (slightly off galactic center) with its "wings" up and "tail" that crosses through the center, and the head and neck of a serpent coming up from behind to grab the dragons tail ( just to the right of the galactic center)- You can see too where the images of the dragon (or serpent) blowing fire from its mouth may have been drawn from...



Compare that to these:









A few excerpts from the OP-

of the rainbow serpent:
Some say it was a sky blue, others that it was yellow with red stripes, while some speak of it as being multi-colored, hence, rainbow..... The creature is said to have resided in large permanent water areas, during wet seasons it is that it would fly and glitter in the sky, for all the people to see.

of Apep: ( day becomes night, then back to day during a solar eclipse, or dragon slays/swallows the sun then the sun returns)
When a solar eclipse occurred it was said that Apep had managed to swallow Ra and that Ra would always eventually make his way out and defeat Apep again.

of Leviathan:
“By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning”, “Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out”, “Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or cauldron. His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth”, “The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves”, “When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid”, “even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.” Extracts from Job 41: 1-34 & Isaiah 27:1.

of Queztacoatl:
He is said to have often taken flights through the skies, creating rainbows, blocking out the sun, etc,

I'm not sure if this theory is correct but it does seem to make a lot of sense...

I wonder too how the stories of dragons guarding treasure originated.... if we consider the milky way's dark rift as a metaphor for the ancient dragon myths then could it be said the galactic center represents this "fabled 'glowing golden' treasure?

Worth considering...

[edit on 1-12-2009 by PhotonEffect]

Another Theory on the Sky Dragon is the Aurora Borealis.

If you we're living near the equator and ever so often there's a really big solar flare and you see this giant rainbow serpert in the sky, could be a dragon?

reply to post by PhotonEffect


You make some interesting points. Another natural phenomena that could account for dragon myths in particular with the Rainbow Serpent is the rainbow itself. It makes sense as the indigenous residents would only see it sometimes and it would (from their perspective) cover the whole sky.

You're theory on the treasure being associated with the dark rift in space is interesting, you should do some follow up research to present a better case because you have something there.

Originally posted by wylee
Another Theory on the Sky Dragon is the Aurora Borealis.

If you we're living near the equator and ever so often there's a really big solar flare and you see this giant rainbow serpert in the sky, could be a dragon?

For sure. With most ancient dragons, natural phenomena such as the Aurora Borealis could be accounted for sightings.

What of the more recent 'encounters' though? Anyone have any thoughts?

If by recent you mean the pterodactylus then that is iffy. It is ridiculously easy to make up a story in a place none of your readers have been to without citing names and all. Over here I have personally witnessed people misidentifying things that should be obvious and psychology comes in to play far more than most people realise.

Since I have never seen any myself I will have to remain agnostic as with all things (til I see one) but assuming it is true I will have to lean towards demons. I have been coming to the same conclusion lately about a lot of things. Think about all the red eyed creatures that attack and terrorise people and how often they go for humans even when there is easier prey. In accounts at least!

reply to post by Ridhya


Yes i tend to agree with you, but some accounts certainly pose more questions than answers. I find the stories of the journalist/explorers who traveled to Africa in the early 20th century the most interesting.

What are your thoughts on the Meyers sketch by the way?

Long gu literally means “dragon bones”, and yes it is an ingredient in traditional Chinese medicine, but not from dinosaur bones.

The earliest widely accepted Chinese writing is the oracle bone inscriptions of Shang dynasty. It was discovered by a late Qing dynasty scholar named Wang Yi Rong who first noticed the existence of Long gu in traditional medicines, as he investigated on these Long gu further he discovered that every piece has got similar writing-like characters on them. These “dragon bones” are in fact tortoise-shells and other animal bones used by the Shang kings for divination.

As for the origin of Chinese dragon, there are many theories on it among Chinese scholars including from dinosaurs as the mistaking of Long Gu for dinosaur bones seems to suit, and from Babylon as a cultural import which the author is implying here as evident in the statement “our dragon friend heads now to the north-east from Mesopotamia, to the lands of the Orient.”

I don’t know if such assertion is based firmly on archaeological record or not as I’m not familiar with the archaeological study regarding the origin of Sumerian dragon. But from what I know the origin of dragon in China can be traced back to the Neolithic period.

The earliest undisputed dragon symbol was found in a tomb named M45 at Xi Shui Po archaeological site in Pu Yang. The site which belongs to Hou gang phase of Yang Shao culture dating back to 4500 B.C was excavated in 1987.



Besides being one of the earliest depiction of dragon, it is also the Azure dragon that constitutes the earliest star map. Before its discovery, it was proposed that element of Chinese astrology such as the four symbols was imported from Babylon around Qin-Han period. However in 1978, a star map painted on the cover of a lacquer case was discovered in a spring-autumn period(432 B.C.) tomb of Zeng state argues indigenous origin.



Those who argue indigenous origin of Chinese astrology propose even earlier development in China since the Zeng star map is already developed one. Even they didn’t expect to trace its origin to such early time when M45 was discovered in 1987,

However, the connection between star maps found in Zeng tomb and 6500 years old M45 is unmistakable evidence of cultural inheritance, for instance the depictions of the Azure dragon of east and the white tiger of west are consistent.



Some experts believe M45 dragon is based on Chinese alligator or the sort as it resembles one, which is actually one of the explanations for the origin of Chinese dragon, among others.





It’s more than physical resemblance that make their argument, according to them, ancient texts speak of man taming the dragons, one tribe during Xia dynasty was actually charged with taming the dragons for the king, and their clan name derived from such expertise. Hence the original dragon should be real animal that was tamed by man.

According to those who propose that alligators were the origin of Chinese dragon the reason that the depiction of dragon found from Erlitou culture (Xia dynasty) was accompanied by a bronze bell is because the bell was used for taming the animal or at least reflects that history.



I don’t know whether the dragons found in various ancient cultures have common origin or not, but Chinese dragon can trace its origin to at least 4500 B.C. whether its based on alligators or not, and it has been a cultural inheritance since then, this is well established by archaeological records.

P.S. One intriguing thing about the star map found in M45 is that according to computer calculation by some scholar the position of the celestial stars are not reflections of the night sky 6500 years ago, but 133,000 years ago, the so called “second astronomical explanation for M45 star map”.



[edit on 3-12-2009 by sunsky]

Originally posted by sunsky

P.S. One intriguing thing about the star map found in M45 is that according to computer calculation by some scholar the position of the celestial stars are not reflections of the night sky 6500 years ago, but 133,000 years ago, the so called “second astronomical explanation for M45 star map”.

Interesting post. You say that the first Chinese dragon can be dated back to 4500B.C.E. than surely it is not the oldest dragon since Sumerian myths surrounding dragons and flying serpents arose no later than the C51B.C.E. I would find it most fascinating if they were found to be in some way related besides the fact that in both cultures, the creator dragons were destroyed before the heavens and earth could be separated.

Just on that P.S. I've found similar cases of ancient star maps dating back to 90,000B.C.E. within the ancient civilizations of pre-Colombia. Thats a different topic though, interesting post.

reply to post by serbsta


The M45 dragon made of clamshells is not “the first Chinese dragon”, I believe I referred to it as “the earliest undisputed dragon symbol” and “one of the earliest depictions of dragon in China.”

Because M45 is only one of three sets of the similar design involving the dragon and the tiger found at Xi shui po archaeological site, besides there are other discoveries of dragon pre-date M45.

There are reports about 10,000 years old “dragon” found at Shi zi tan site in Shanxi province, a rock art referred to as “yu wei lu long” (literally deer-like dragon with fish tail), and another rock art depicting a female figure is regarded by some as “Nu Wa”. Only this amateur photo was found.



At Cha hai archaeological site Liao ning province, a 20 meters long stone dragon was discovered lying on the central plaza of the settlement, the site is 8000 years old and is predecessor to Hong shan culture.




The famous “pig dragon” of Hong shan culture



may trace its origin to this 8000 years old S-shaped dragon found in Xing long wa culture of Inner Mongolia. The body is made of stones and pottery pieces, while the head is actually the skull of a wild boar.



Zhao bao gou culture (4800 B.C.) evolved from Xing long wa culture, there are dragons on its pottery decoration, along with birds and deer, though the head of the dragon was still recognizably a wild boar.



Another 6000 years old dragon made of pebbles was found at Jiao dun archaeological site in Hu bei province, “the first dragon from the Yangtze valley”.



As far the archaeological records are concerned, it seems Chinese dragons are indigenous and they are distinct from Western dragons, this is also the consensus among Chinese scholars study the origin of Chinese dragon.

Originally posted by sunsky

As far the archaeological records are concerned, it seems Chinese dragons are indigenous and they are distinct from Western dragons, this is also the consensus among Chinese scholars study the origin of Chinese dragon.

I agree with that conclusion. I found this link: p1.images22.51img1.com... the most interesting. It is clearly depicting a serpent form. Very interesting thanks for posting.

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by sunsky

As far the archaeological records are concerned, it seems Chinese dragons are indigenous and they are distinct from Western dragons, this is also the consensus among Chinese scholars study the origin of Chinese dragon.

I agree with that conclusion. I found this link: p1.images22.51img1.com... the most interesting. It is clearly depicting a serpent form. Very interesting thanks for posting.

Though the archaeological records seem to validate that conclusion regarding the origin of Chinese dragon, I do however believe in "ancient astronaut theory", and i believe the general direction of your search is right.

It is worth to note what the Chinese archaeologists regard as the "Sun god" of Hong shan culture do exhibit uncanny appearance which is "alien-like".




I will add more images of some "alien-like" relics from ancient China in the following thread, please use them as supplement to your knowledge on the theme of "ancient astronaut" and finish your ancient series in which you believe that anicent civilizations were visited by ET, of which i share your belief.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You think it would be possible for a sub species of Dinosaur to evolve sapience, and sentience?

Descend into Hot caves as the earth slowly cooled on its surface?

Developed an advanced society within the bowels of the earth?

Reptilians? Maybe... maybe...

Maybe we are not the first species to develop sentience on earth?

Maybe the reason that we can't find any Dino Fossils after the K-T boundary, is that the survivors either evolved into birds.... or moved underground where it was still warm...

en.wikipedia.org...

Like a Dino Bomb shelter.

-Edrick

Originally posted by Edrick

Maybe the reason that we can't find any Dino Fossils after the K-T boundary, is that the survivors either evolved into birds.... or moved underground where it was still warm...

en.wikipedia.org...

Like a Dino Bomb shelter.

-Edrick

Evolution is an interesting theory when referring to dragons as we understand them today, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that they were totally sentient. Some recounts of strange winged creatures deep within caves are rather intriguing, they are usually found dead due to mining endeavors. If we are to assume that some of these recounts are true, we have to wonder how such creatures could have survived in those conditions. It would have had to have been an environmental assimilation. So evolution/assimilation does hold some weight.