God, Gods and Half a God

reply to post by DaisyAnne


what is the name of the tablet
so i can look it up?

reply to post by undo


Both of these tablets are unnamed, but you can look them up as I listed them in the previous post -- the TRS stands for Textes religieux Sumeriens du Louvre -- basically, they are in the Louvre collection as published by Henri de Genouillac. The numbers denote which tablet and which part of the tablet.

reply to post by DaisyAnne


here's an interesting tidbit

In a tablet which gives a list of the Sumerian gods, the goddess Nammu, written with the ideogram for "sea," is described as "the mother, who gave birth to heaven and earth." Heaven and earth were therefore conceived by the Sumerians as the created products of the primeval sea.

source
tiny.cc...

note nammu is the primeval sea, personified. (et.al, they deified the concept of the primeval sea). i believe she correlates with egyptian hathor, the void, the nun, the chaotic "waters" of creation.

namma, the primeval mother who gave birth to the senior gods

enki and ninmaḫ

reply to post by undo


I believe Nammu correlates to Nun, but not Hathor. Hathor would correlate to Inanna.

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
reply to post by undo

 

Both of these tablets are unnamed, but you can look them up as I listed them in the previous post -- the TRS stands for Textes religieux Sumeriens du Louvre -- basically, they are in the Louvre collection as published by Henri de Genouillac. The numbers denote which tablet and which part of the tablet.

Interesting. Are these viewable online? I didn't know about these.

Edit:

Textes religieux sumeriens du Louvre
Vol I: www.etana.org...


Textes religieux sumeriens du Louvre
Vol II: www.etana.org...

Both volumes for download. I'll be doing some digging later.

[edit on 3/12/2009 by serbsta]

reply to post by serbsta


That's them!
Kramer references them a lot in his work.

reply to post by DaisyAnne


it's a good idea too, to make sure kramer is respecting the timeline when he's formulating his theories on the work. i like his stuff alot. he's the first one to connect the abzu to the abyss (bottomless pit), which means initially, the abyss was not the sea but something IN the sea.

reply to post by DaisyAnne


i developed the theory that hathor was also the nun after following the evolution of the hathor symbol. it was really quite interesting. it all starts with the egyptian goddess BAT (not bast), who was a personification of the milky way and goes forward from there.
tiny.cc...

just a little aside for sumer researchers:

7 birth goddesses of creation=
7 sisters=
7 stars of pleaides=
7 reins of the great bull of heaven=
taurus and the pleaides=
enki, ninmah and the 7 birth goddesses of creation

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by DaisyAnne

 

i developed the theory that hathor was also the nun after following the evolution of the hathor symbol. it was really quite interesting. it all starts with the egyptian goddess BAT (not bast), who was a personification of the milky way and goes forward from there.
tiny.cc...

geographically speaking... as a freshwater sea

nun = abzu = apsu = apsorroos = okeanos = vourukasa

reply to post by Parta


but abzu wasn't the sea. it may have evolved into that meaning later, but originally, abzu wasn't the sea or the ocean or a lake. in the penn state translation, the e.abzu rises up from the abzu. in kramer's original translation,
enki's temple rises up from the abyss and floats over the water like a lofty mountain.
it's a flying, floating, hovering, submersible, roaring, glowing, tangled thread beyond understanding,
its walls give advice, it has a door that snatches a man, and it's composed entirely of metal: gold outside, silver inside, with blue decoration like lapis lazuli.

now if the abzu was underground streams, are they saying the e.abzu rose up from an underground stream? and if it floated over the water like a lofty mountain, are they saying the abzu was a body of water on land that the e.abzu floated over? once you start eliminating possibilities, the picture begins to clarify. the abzu was the abyss was the bottomless pit, and it was IN the sea but wasn't the sea, itself. enki's temple rose up from it and floated over the water. not on the water. over the water.

i don't see how you could read it any differently unless you change translations.

it's the nun, the chaotic void of creation, etc.

[edit on 6-12-2009 by undo]

reply to post by undo


not a sea as such but a very large lake [or river ocean]. everything originally was in the underworld [kur nu-gi-še] including enkis bolts [not the door kind] which barred the sea and had to be fed. this place was far from mesopotamia.

it is interesting to go to etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk... and search abzu. you can sail [or be punted about] on the abzu. it has winds and sky etc. animals live there.

woolley said sumerians came from the carpathians and looking at the artifacts, constructions and geology it would seem difficult to disagree. i think childe and pike [cambridge ancient histories] said the same thing but said that they were wiros.

reply to post by undo


I've always felt that these symbols apply to more than one deity. Much like the twin snakes -- they are almost like family crests.

reply to post by Parta


so you think the chaotic void of creation/nun was a lake?
it's like one of those logic puzzles. line up all the data on it, from
all the sources, along with your personal list of what it could possibly be, then start eliminating. you'll find out it wasn't actually water at all.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Parta

 

so you think the chaotic void of creation/nun was a lake?

it's like one of those logic puzzles. line up all the data on it, from
all the sources, along with your personal list of what it could possibly be, then start eliminating. you'll find out it wasn't actually water at all.

i cannot find in which sumerian texts the abzu is described as a chaotic void. i do see that the abzu is in the underworld which at first was a very nice place.

"meš tree planted in the Abzu, rising over all lands"

"Your great house is founded in the Abzu, the great mooring-post of heaven and earth"

"In my Abzu, sacred songs and incantations resound for me. My barge ‘Crown’, the ‘Stag of the Abzu’, transports me there most delightfully. It glides swiftly for me through the great marshes to wherever I have decided"

"The lord, the great ruler of the Abzu, issues instructions on board the ‘Stag of the Abzu’ — the great emblem erected in the Abzu, providing protection, its shade extending over the whole land and refreshing the people, the pillar and pole planted in the …… marsh, rising high over all the foreign lands."

"An artfully made bright crenellation rising out from the abzu was erected for Lord Nudimmud. He built the temple from precious metal, decorated it with lapis lazuli, and covered it abundantly with gold. In Eridug, he built the house on the bank."

"Temple built on the edge, befitting the artful divine powers! Eridug, your shadow extends over the midst of the sea!"

"Temple at the edge of the engur, a lion in the midst of the abzu; lofty temple of Enki"

"On that day the maiden Inana, holy Inana, directed her steps all by herself towards Enki’s abzu in Eridug."

"holy Inana perceived the canopy, from the palace of the abzu, she perceived the canopy"


and on and on....


i think that if you take everything together [egyptian (where it is aka serser), persian, sumerian, akkadian, greek and babylonian] then you see that the abzu was a fresh water lake in [or on] which was built a large enclosure also called the abzu [or the vara of yima, garden of ptah, pen of geryon the raven... grandson of poseidon].

reply to post by Parta


well here's a bit of interesting egyptian etymology:

ABYDOS (greek word, btw) =
ABDJU (egyptian) =
ABZU (the dj was pronounced "z" like in djoser is pronounced zoser).

tidbit of info from egyptologist, david rohl, who realized that many
things egyptian were originally mesopotamian, particularly at abydos
and naqada.

reply to post by undo


the silly egyptians had 3 abzus. as you say there was one at abydos and there was another at canopis [gauti] where was the golden floor wherein the head of ptah was worshipped [later on the head of osiris instead]. the head of osiris was worshipped at abydos too. this head worship thing was widespread











the last abzu was the four cornered royal enclosure in the duat, THE underworld far to the north beyond egypt. this was the one that ptah built on what would become the isle of trampling after he had finished hollowing out the circles of ra in serser [lake of fire]. the shebtiw were there under aa and wa.

the bird legged fellows here who have to dig the abzu

are also the fellows who are captives on serser [or neserser] in egyptian art. if you look them up in a full pictured version of budge [like at archive.org] you will see they are exactly the same.



[edit on 7-12-2009 by Parta]

reply to post by Parta


do you have a reference for the "Bird fellows" who dig the abzu?

reply to post by undo


i have never looked for references in strictly sumerian texts so maybe i should. the egyptian text that goes with the bird fellows [cloud cuckoo people or haunebu] is:

"These are they who are in the Land of Serser; 'they have received their bread, and they have gained the mastery over this Lake, and they praise this great god. Ra saith unto them:--'Eat ye your green herbs, and satisfy ye yourselves with your cakes; let there be fulness to your bellies, and satisfaction to your hearts. Your green herbs are of the Lake of Serser, the Lake which may not be approached. Praise ye me, glorify ye me, for I am the Great One of terror of the Tuat.' They say unto Ra:--'Hail to thee, O thou Great One of the SEKHEMU (i.e., Powers)! Praise is thine, and majesty is thine. The Tuat is thine, and [is subservient] to thy will; it is a hidden place [made] by thee for those who are in its Circles. The height of Heaven is thine, and [is subservient] to thy will; it is a secret place [made] by thee for those who belong thereto. The Earth is for thy dead Body, and the Sky is for thy Soul. O Ra, be thou at peace (or, be content) with that which thou hast made to come into being.' Their food consisteth of bread-cakes, their green herbs are the plants of the spring, and the waters wherein they refresh themselves are cool”

"These are they who make souls to have a right to the green herbs in the Lake of Serser. Ra saith unto them:--'[Hail, ye] divine sovereign princes of the gods, and ye chiefs of the Lake of Serser, who place souls over their green herbs, let them have dominion themselves over their bread; give ye your bread which is appointed, and bring ye your green herbs to the souls who have been ordered to exist in the Lake of Serser.' They say unto Ra:--'The bread appointed hath been and the green herbs have been brought to the divine souls whom thou hast ordered to exist in the Lake of Serser. Hail! Verily, the way is fair; for KHENTI-AMENTI praiseth thee, and those who dwell in TA-THENEN praise thee.' Their food is of bread-cakes, and their beer is the tchesert beer, and their libations are of cool water; and offerings are made unto them upon earth by those who are with TUI by the divine sovereign princes."





[edit on 8-12-2009 by Parta]