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As of late I have heard many members and posters on this forum accuse Masons of worshipping Lucifer, either directly or unwittingly. To me, both prospects are equally untenable.

To worship anything requires direct and and conscious effort to pay homage to the figure in question and therefore it becomes impossible to 'accidentally' worship any being. One can not, for example, be in the process of worshipping Jesus Christ and unknowingly be worshipping Ganesh. How is it then possible that Freemasons somehow have no idea that they are unwittingly worshipping Lucifer? How is Lucifer suddenly equated to the Supreme Architect of the Universe-which Masons recognize as the Creator Diety of the individual Masons own chosing?

If one were in fact to accept Lucifer as an historical figure, and not, correctly it may be added, recognize the name Lucifer as a Latin word for the planet Venus, how do you justify having a 'being' created by God somehow supercede God's supremecy as Diety? The very nature that Lucifer/Satan was created by God relegates it to a subordinate and inferior status and would not qualify the entity as a 'Supreme Being'. One of Masonry's core tenets is a belief in Diety and as someone who has a belief in God-and none in Lucifer/Satan-what would be the purpose in subverting this landmark?

What methods are there to convince someone that they are unknowingly doing one thing when they are certain they are doing another? And more importantly, why?

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Anti-Freemasonry is bunk. Don't worry about it.

I am under the impression that it is the Luciferian goal to break away from God. Not maliciously or vindictively, but peacefully. In their minds they simply believe that they no longer need God to guide their existence. They wish to masters of their own destiny and not a tenet of God. HOWEVER, seeing as we are all one collective consciousness, they had to convince the rest of the population that God either didn't exist (so they would follow another [deistic?] figure), or that God did not have their best interests in mind. That's where all their bull# and satan being 'the great deciever' and whatnot comes in.

In essence they're saying (to quote Jay-Z):

'Peace, God'

That's my take on things.

Edit: But I also believe that it is detrimental to our cause here. It is pride, plain and simple. They do not like the idea of having to answer to someone else and they think they have learned things about the nature of life that God is not aware of as the principles are not present in our current existence. BUT, if (as I believe), God has us here to experience and to learn, that entails the idea that whatever we learn, God learns and will incorporate it in his next go 'round. We're all on the same team in the end, but because of the percieved separation between us and the entity known as 'God,' the Luciferians have been mislead (by Satan?) to believe that what they have learned, God does not codone. Which CAN"T be true if we are all God. This is new for the entity known as God as much as it is for us.

Which brings me to my conclusion that this existence is a test for our these individual consciousnesses. If you imagine us as one giant membrane that is set-up to give the illusion of separateness, then the 'good souls' that grow out of this mess are the ones that God brings up to 'heaven.' Once we prove that we can handle individual responsiblity, we are allowed into a venue which cultivates our need for creative expression.

'Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."

Revelations 14:15

We were 'made in God's image.' The entity known as God is growing a family.

[edit on 11/30/09 by CSquared288]

Originally posted by CSquared288
I am under the impression that it is the Luciferian goal to break away from God.

But if you believe in and worship God then why would you need to 'break away' from God?

In their minds they simply believe that they do not need to God to guide their existence.

If by 'they' you mean Freemasons then why would we need to have the guidance of a fallen angel (if you believe in the historical Satan) when we have already asked for God's guidance in both our prayers and candidate initiations?

They wish to masters of their own destiny and not a tenet of God. HOWEVER, seeing as we are all one collective consciousness, they had to convince the rest of the population that God either didn't exist (so they would follow another [deistic?] figure), or that God did not have their best interests in mind.

I am not quite sure where you got the idea that Masons are striving to convince themselves that God does not exist. Can you explain this to me?

But if you believe in and worship God then why would you need to 'break away' from God?

I feel as though if we come from the understand that God is the supreme entity and Satan/Lucifer is a secondary deity, it could be spun (as I have seen people here on the boards note) in such a fashion as to paint Lucifer as the champion marching against the oppressive tyrant king, God. So those who follow lucifer may not necessarily worship God. I believe that the true nature of God has been so convoluded that the worship of Him could be equally as so. In my opinion, all manifestations of positive energy (compassion, joy, creative inspiration, etc.) are representations of God in this universe. Likewise, all manisfestions of negative energy (rage, jealousy, loneliness, etc.) are the manifestations of God's 'nemesis.' We can't learn about evil unless evil is propogated somewhere by something. So if Joe Freemason joins this brotherhood because he wants to learn about God, that is a manifestation of God and all he represents. Freedom of choice and expresion and whatnot. But if that same group has rules which requires J.F. to participate in activities or commit acts that are either demeaning or destructive, or he just plain doesn't want to, that is a manifestion of the nemesis. The man shouldn't have to do things for someone else to learn about God because that is (I believe) fundamentally against what God is in this existence.

If by 'they' you mean Freemasons then why would we need to have the guidance of a fallen angel (if you believe in the historical Satan) when we have already asked for God's guidance in both our prayers and candidate initiations?

I'm sorry I was referring to luciferians.

I am not quite sure where you got the idea that Masons are striving to convince themselves that God does not exist. Can you explain this to me?

Sorry, I was referring to Luciferians again. I do not believe that they are striving to convince themselves that God doesn't exist, I believe they are trying to get the masses to believe that. I think that at the very core of the luciferian belief system, they believe that they no longer need God to continue with this crazy experiment called existence. But, seeing as we are all inextricably linked and alluding to our powers of co-creation, I think that they had to convince (coerce? cajole? direct?) they rest of the human population to choose to turn from God.

I feel as though people take this thing we refer to as life wayy to seriously. It's not a job, and if you had to classify it as one, our job would be to enjoy the f*** out it.

[edit on 11/30/09 by CSquared288]

Gotcha. Unfortunately I don't really have an opinion on that aspect of the topic. It was nice talking with you though

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

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As of late I have heard many members and posters on this forum accuse Masons of worshipping Lucifer, either directly or unwittingly. To me, both prospects are equally untenable.

What if god is satan and satan is god? Personally, I do not believe this to be true but I have heard many atheists and even "devil worshippers" state this.

Satan allows free will while god restricts it. After careful consideration there might be some merit to this hypothesis but I personally believe both god and satan exist for a reason. The reason? Balance and harmony between good and bad.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
To worship anything requires direct and and conscious effort to pay homage to the figure in question and therefore it becomes impossible to 'accidentally' worship any being. One can not, for example, be in the process of worshipping Jesus Christ and unknowingly be worshipping Ganesh. How is it then possible that Freemasons somehow have no idea that they are unwittingly worshipping Lucifer? How is Lucifer suddenly equated to the Supreme Architect of the Universe-which Masons recognize as the Creator Diety of the individual Masons own chosing?

AFAIK there are masonic lodges that DO NOT REQUIRE belief in a supreme deity such as the grand orient lodge of france.

Schism with the United Grand Lodge of England]

In 1877, at the instigation of the Protestant priest Frédéric Desmons, it allowed those who had no belief in a Supreme being- which the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE) and related Lodges regarded as a Masonic Landmark - to be admitted.[16]

It was this decision that has been the root cause of the schism between the Grand Orient (and those lodges that followed it), and the rest of Freemasonry. It is a schism in Freemasonry which continues to this day. It is argued that the definition is ambiguous, that Anderson's Landmarks are his own collection and interpretation of the historical landmarks, and that changes in both interpretation and practice have occurred before and since.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
If one were in fact to accept Lucifer as an historical figure, and not, correctly it may be added, recognize the name Lucifer as a Latin word for the planet Venus, how do you justify having a 'being' created by God somehow supercede God's supremecy as Diety? The very nature that Lucifer/Satan was created by God relegates it to a subordinate and inferior status and would not qualify the entity as a 'Supreme Being'. One of Masonry's core tenets is a belief in Diety and as someone who has a belief in God-and none in Lucifer/Satan-what would be the purpose in subverting this landmark?

And satan is not capable of deception? Does it not strike you odd that most people do not even consider satan to be real, much less capable of subverting mainstream religions?! More people have died in the name of religion than for any other purpose.

Each thinks his/her religion is superior to others' religion, when in most cases, we are just praising a different messiah rather than a different god. I sense *divide and conquer* tactics at work.

Not to mention many people, including myself, think god and satan could actually be leaders of an inter-gallactic war being waged on earth and beyond by different alien species.

I am not sure of their actual position, but I do know that they like to play games to lead people in a direction. If they are trying to wake up the true self, and not the egoic self, then I might concur with their methods. If they merely teach people ritual in order to control them and teach them to fully control others through ritual, then they probably consider me a mortal enemy. However, if they are of this method, then I am more spiritually powerful than they, and the seeds of their destruction have already been sown. I need to do nothing more, as it has already been done.

In addition, Lucifer is, in a sense, the little god of this world. Lucifer might properly represent the lower self, the binary cord (fallen angel anyone) trying to "ascend into heaven," to rise above the controlling, life-sucking duality of 0 and 1. Lucifer seeks singularity. The problem is, this "Lucifer" tries to dominate and manipulate his way out of the domination and manipulation.

Lucifer loves the idea of freeDOM, the right to ruthlessly manipulate and dominate the other as if it is a virtue, bearing no consequences. Lucifer views it as free, but it certainly costs. Lucifer is a little bitch in this regard, as all rights bear responsibilities in this dualistic realm. The response to Lucifer's right to ruthlessly dominate and manipulate is a perpetuation of the master/slave wheel, albeit with swapping roles. It is obvious that this part of Lucifer thoroughly enjoys creating a heaven for itself while creating hell for another, only to inevitably descend right back down into hell, ad infinitum.

The more Lucifer rises, the more domination and manipulation exist. When Lucifer is as near as can be to singularity, Lucifer falls yet again, and the individual centers on a sort of androgynous goat, the false center of ego, the lying rabbit we have chased.

At this point, the individual either accepts the singularity of the BEAST or rejects it. One might perfectly align with the BEAST in order to be the ruthless dominator and manipulator in this "hell" realm in which we live. This realm being defined by domination and manipulation, divide and conquer, mastery and slavery. This BEAST is the author in the drama, seeking to repeat the devil's drama, as the BEAST self-identifies as a winner in this story.

If one chooses to reject the BEASTly false center, because one knows the pain it causes and the drama it repeats, then one undergoes a long process of personal reconciliation. When this self fully reconciles, it knows the role it must play to reconcile the drama. It knows the words to spread, the seeds it must plant.

Just as the self can align with beast or reconcile, so too can the whole of society. Society is continuing its beastly downward spiral, the fall of humanity , until people collectively see the BEAST. At this point, they reject this monster, and a sort of an age of Aquarius, but one reflecting on a sort of Christ/Sophia singularity, emerges. The fish rises above the water, so to speak. Let's speed this up y'all.

All that being said, whether or not freemasonry worships Lucifer is now irrelevant. Sure, I would feel for those that got caught in their predatory webs (IF this is the case). The story of THE drama is almost over.


[edit on 30-11-2009 by orwellianunenlightenment]

[edit on 30-11-2009 by orwellianunenlightenment]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
What if god is satan and satan is god?

The theory pushed by some posters is a unwitting worshipping of Satan and not a misrepresentation of Satan for God. It is an interesting theory but it would not explain how a person could be unknowingly worshipping God. In fact, in this cae to actually worship God one would have to pay homage to Satan. It is like saying all that is blue is now green and the sky is green, yes, but the sky is still the sky.

Personally, I do not believe this to be true but I have heard many atheists and even "devil worshippers" state this.

Atheists do not concern me as they worship nothing and their opinion would lack any substance due to this. How could they tell me what I am worshipping when they actually believe in no Dieties?

True Satanists do not worship Satan and instead worship the self.

Satan allows free will while god restricts it.

I disagree, I believe that we all have God-given free will and thier is no restriction. If God were to govern free will perhaps the removal of the ability to harm one another would be the first thing to go. Also, how could a subordinate being such as Satan, have the ability to grant more free will unless it had the blessing of God to do so?

AFAIK there are masonic lodges that DO NOT REQUIRE belief in a supreme deity such as the grand orient lodge of france.

I am aware of the French lodges, they are recognized as clandestine and therefore would have zero communication and influence with lodges based in the United States.

And satan is not capable of deception? Does it not strike you odd that most people do not even consider satan to be real, much less capable of subverting mainstream religions?!

As I stated earlier, I do not believe in Satan but I understand that if a person believed in the historical Satan they would believe it to be a being that would propogate deception. The question still stands however, how can a person who does not believe in this entity actually worship it unknowingly?

More people have died in the name of religion than for any other purpose.

Agreed. This is one of the main things that attracted me to Masonry. Acceptance of all Brothers as long as they believe in God with universal harmony being paramount as we do not ask what you call God or your religion. Only that you have a belief in Diety.

Each thinks his/her religion is superior to others' religion, when in most cases, we are just praising a different messiah rather than a different god. I sense *divide and conquer* tactics at work.

I disagree. I think we are all praising the same God, whether you call it God, Allah, Yehovah, etc. Divide and conquer may be a zealots point of view but the individual who truly believes in Brotherly love will not even care what name you have chosen for God.

Not to mention many people, including myself, think god and satan could actually be leaders of an inter-gallactic war being waged on earth and beyond by different alien species.

But then God would not a be a Supreme Being and would therefore in fact not be God (not to mention extra-terrestrial Satan as well).


On a side note I do find it interesting that nodoby has any substantiation, or even presented an arguement, to the whole 'at the high degrees it is revealed that you in fact worship Lucifer' nonesense.











[edit on 1-12-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

I am not religious but I enjoy studying the superstitions involved with them and the history not so much of the religion but the impact the religion had on history.

Lucifer as you state appears to be a Roman G-d representing Venus. This doesn’t really have anything to do with Yahweh which was not a Roman G-d.

In fact I don’t believe there was a Yahweh but I have found some evidence of a Yahwsheh Canaanite G-d of Pirates, Mercenaries and thieves.

As an agnostic I believe there is a higher power at play within the Universe, possibly several.

Most religious teachings seem to be more for the purpose of political control than any real enlightenment or spiritual purpose.

Because it’s all about political control a Catholic Church that heralded in the Dark Ages a time or repression and superstition and stagnation and regression it would make political sense to vilify a Roman G-d known as the light bearer and the bringer of truth and wisdom. It would stand to reason that light is the antitheses of darkness and would be frowned upon, and wisdom and truth is the antitheses of superstition and fear.

Personally who ever wants to worship what for what ever reason not really my business. That’s all politics, and politics has nothing to do with spirituality. Well except for killing it!

Originally posted by Extant Taxon
Masons of the Enlightenment era seemed to produce Lucifer as a venerable icon of the intellect reigning supreme, conquering belief and superstition. This was almost certainly not literal worship of diety.

I am unaware of any Masonic references to Lucifer prior to Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma; can you please direct me to where you may have obtained this information? Thank you.

The problem is also that Lucifer and Satan are not necessarily the same entity, if we go by interpretations of scripture. Later interpolations resulted in conflation of two distinct icons if I remember correctly.

Correct. This issue is one of the serious flaws in the translation of the King James Bible and has led to the incorrect assumption that Lucifer and Satan were two names for the same being.