UK nationals stopped by Iranian navy

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Please post some kind of evidence!!
So you dont care where they were caught, so if they were in disputed waters, it dosen't matter? Can you show any compassion, what about innocent untill proven guilty!! What would you do, just blow them out of the water?

It's a sad story about men being taken hostage until Iran can prove they were spies.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Kurokage

 

I don't actually care where the British spies were allegedly captured.

Possession is 9/10th of the law and currently Iran possesses the spies and the spy craft!

That's what is truly important.

I suppose then this would apply to Israel as well...you know, possession being so important....

reply to post by john124


Sounds like a lot of deflection to me John from people upset that there is no logical reason for a sailing craft to have gone so far off course.

While the thread is degrading into typical attack the messenger not the message tactics favored by war mongerers the reality is that always happens when they are absent of any facts to back up their version of events.

The facts of this incident pretty much speak for themselves which is why the high level of spin is being put on them to down play the fact that a state of the art sailing vessel equiped with every modern navigational tool doesn't end up on the opposite side of the Persian Gulf from where it was traveling and where it was going to without some deliberate effort.

Now if that upsets you, oh well.

The facts speak for themselves and I find it absolutely flattering that personal attacks on me get more stars than those posts that attempt to deal with facts so poorly that change from post to post as they are rejected and overcome with logic, common sense and real facts.

It just demonstrates the high level of frustration people who can't make a sound factual argument feel when desperately trying to promote warmongering propaganda.

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by tristar

 

there were instruments seized aboard the Yacht for tracking purposes other than sailing.

Any sources to back that claim?

I suppse an I-POD and laptop has nothing to do with sailing, but Iran will twist the story to match their pre-determined conclusion.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by john124]

Well, there are no links, you obviously do understand and ATS is no wiki leaks site. So i guess just the like rest you too will have to wait until clearance and re wording of what i have posted begin to trickle through the internet.

As for laptop's, well lets say the software installed on my unit is worth far more than my very existence as an entity. That was a freebie for reference sake.

You should take the time and study time line events in respect to resent
wars and the prior news/civilian conflicts leading up to events. Just so you understand, it takes several years of intelligence gathering before any military action is approved and implemented. History, its full of every answer your heart desires.

Originally posted by Kurokage
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Please post some kind of evidence!!

So you dont care where they were caught, so if they were in disputed waters, it dosen't matter? Can you show any compassion, what about innocent untill proven guilty!! What would you do, just blow them out of the water?

It's a sad story about men being taken hostage until Iran can prove they were spies.

No it's a story of at best spoiled little rich kids playing in a world they think they own but don't understand quite as well as they imagine.

At worst it's a story of spies and governments acting out against one another.

If they stayed home they sure wouldn't be having any trouble.

They weren't drafted into the sail boat race (that they couldn't even sail well enough to get too).

They weren't paid to enter the sail boat race (that they couldn't even sail well enought to get too).

They chose to go to one of the most dangerous parts of the world as others have pointed out in this thread and take on inherent risks with either a level of skill that served them poorly or a deliberate desire to beat those risks in attempting to spy on another nation.

I have compassion for the Iranian people who for years have been targets of vicious and mostly unfounded propaganda against them for basically kicking out the despotic Shah and the Western Oil Companies who 30 years later still bear a grudge over it.

At best you are asking me to be compassionate about 6 fools. At worst you are asking me to be compassionate about 6 spies.

All the while most people are trying to make their foolishness or their spying something evil pertaining to Iran.

Doesn't sound too compassionate to me at all.

But hey if the kids need a few bucks for ciggarette money in the Iranian hookey let me know! I can kick in a few bucks if it makes you feel better!

reply to post by Kurokage



If you google search there is a map which shows the intended route and the position of the seized boat. By all means happy hunting,


edit: [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/7da5048abb535464.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 1-12-2009 by tristar]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

All this smoke and mirrors by a desperate British Government caught with it's pants down is just that, smoke and mirrors!

Repeating this without being able to prove the claim does not produce the evidence however many times it is said.

You are in way doing the warmongering here, by accusing the British govt. You are making the accusation, so back it up or shut up! You're just like a barking dog, like the criminal revolutionary guards looking for excuses left right and centre with the same old spouted nonsense - like a child throwing a tantrum!

Originally posted by Argyll

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Kurokage

 

I don't actually care where the British spies were allegedly captured.

Possession is 9/10th of the law and currently Iran possesses the spies and the spy craft!

That's what is truly important.

All this smoke and mirrors by a desperate British Government caught with it's pants down is just that, smoke and mirrors!

That post just about sums your stance up.....your not bothered about the facts!, you've made a judgement and as far as your concerned nothing else matters.

Hell of a way to conduct yourself!

Reading comprehension helps as the word ALLEGED plays large in where they were ALLEGED to be captured.

The reality is no one has the GPS coordinates where they were ALLEGED to have been when Captured.

The fact is we know though that they are CAPTURED.

See how that works.

It's called next chapter, here and now, move forward, what's done is done.

The reality is these men will either be proved to be spies or let go after its determined they are not spies.

That's where we are at. Where you are at is looking to a lot of circumstantial reports compiled through speculative sources that are trying to paint a plausible story of deniability.

No I don't care about broken propellers and other nonsense of 'disputed' waters and what not.

It's all mute and academic except for people who like to argue for the sake of arguing or confusing a situation.

That would much better sum it up!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



What is your stance?

are they spies?
or
are they poor little rich kids playing with toys?

you have so far presented NO facts to back up your assertions that these kids are spies......NOT ONE FACT!

Your starting to come off as a rather bitter sort of person

reply to post by tristar


I actually posted a link showing a map few pages back, thank you. I know this is a conspiracy site but just claiming people are spies dosen't actually prove a lot.

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

All this smoke and mirrors by a desperate British Government caught with it's pants down is just that, smoke and mirrors!

Repeating this without being able to prove the claim does not produce the evidence however many times it is said.

You are in way doing the warmongering here, by accusing the British govt. You are making the accusation, so back it up or shut up! You're just like a barking dog, like the criminal revolutionary guards looking for excuses left right and centre with the same old spouted nonsense - like a child throwing a tantrum!

Actually Iran has no intention of attacking Britan, the West does have every intention of attacking Iran, so actually taking the side of caution (are these men spies are they not spies lets find out all the facts versus condemning Iran for these men's mistakes) is not war mongering.

War mongering is trying to condemn a nation for apprehending a boat of foreign nationals without visas who strayed into it's territorial waters.

Especially when that nation is waging a propaganda war and especially when the people doing the condemnation of the nation defending it's sovereignty are from the nation that invaded it.

The fact remains the same that a state of the art sailing craft ended up on the opposite side of the Persian Gulf from where it was supposed to be sailing from and too.

That it was crewed by people from a nation waging a propaganda war against the nation it ended up in unlawfully makes it more suspicious.

Now why would there be anything wrong in pointing out all those common sense things.

Simply twisting things around to the opposite angle for the sake of debate just shows that the person has nothing of substance to debate with.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


No I'm sorry but the words "I don't actually care" are the words that play large in you above post

Nice try........epic fail.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

What is your stance?

are they spies?
or
are they poor little rich kids playing with toys?

you have so far presented NO facts to back up your assertions that these kids are spies......NOT ONE FACT!

Your starting to come off as a rather bitter sort of person

I sure must be a fascinating charachter that evokes all this personal speculation against Terms and Conditions.

You can't prove these men are not spies, you can't prove that they ended up where they did by the means you are purporting that they are.

I unlike other people don't object to people who want to pretend that they aren't spies.

I just object to the notion that they aren't spies.

It's nothing personal, I am not spying on anyone, are you? My government doesn't own me, does yours?

I am allowed to think outside of the box, are you?

I am allowed to ask tough probing questions are you?

I am not afraid of the answers are you?

Pretty silly game some people on this thread are playing, there is so much reasonable doubt in this case that these men are spies that to not investigate it would be absolutely short sighted unless someone had a national agenda.

I don't have a national agenda, do you?

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

No I'm sorry but the words "I don't actually care" are the words that play large in you above post

Nice try........epic fail.

I see so what determines whether they are spies are not is me and my attitudes?

Deflection, deflection, deflection, deflection.

You can't actually prove they aren't spies, so we now just want to prove who ever thinks they are spies is a bad person?

Alrighty then, good luck with that.

The fact remains the same that a state of the art sailing craft equipped with the most sophisticated navigational equipment money can buy ended up on the exact opposite side of the Persian Gulf and the Opposite direction too from where they were headed from and too.

I would want to try to make that all about me too if I was having to defend that as some kind of ligitimate occurence!

Originally posted by grantbeed
reply to post by Someone336

 

I agree. the first thing I thought when i read this story was - "special Forces"

same as the hikers too.

If you take a look at the photo of those hikers you'll see that they were special, but in a short bus type of way, hardly special forces.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Where have the T&C been broken?

You are more than welcome to your opinion, and I would defend your right to have it to the death!

All I have asked is that for someone who is so overly sure of the details of this matter, is that you provide some facts, some proof.

So far all you have provided me with is your opinion stated as fact, and some crazy demands that I must be a member of the intelligence services before you will provide these facts and proof.


I believe that these guys are simply yachtsmen who inadvertently may have strayed into Iranian waters......this is however my opinion, I don not ,unlike you, present is as the unquestionable truth.

Clear enough for you?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


This isn't a thread about attacking Iran, or some propaganda war. It's a thread about Iran capturing a yacht that was on its way to take part in race, and suffered problems. You have offered no evidence to the contrary, just your opinion that we are all warmongerers and the men are spies.
Its a shame you didn't first ask my opinion on Iran, because I have no belief in any further wars in the middle east and unless any one asks for help they should be left alone to sort out there own problems. Thats an opinion from a warmongerer that is!!!

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Kurokage
reply to post by tristar

 

I actually posted a link showing a map few pages back, thank you. I know this is a conspiracy site but just claiming people are spies dosen't actually prove a lot.

I am not claiming anyone is a spy, the facts do point to something entirely different to what the public is being force fed once again. Lets not forget that they repeatedly did enter Iran controlled waters whiles on major military maneuvers. We do exactly the same thing with N.Korea, Russia, Pakistan, Egypt. Get over it, its a long standing tactic.

Oh hang on...Iran is building Nuclear weapons capable of striking European Nations....Oh hang on....Iraq has Scud missiles capable of striking European Nations..!

Use your brain don't abuse it.