Houston We Have A Problem. ISS is over NYC on 911 instead of Africa

reply to post by Anti-Evil

You mean this software?

Celestia's orbit for the ISS is out of date. How can I get a better one?

The orbit of the International Space Station changes continuously in ways that are almost impossible to predict due to things like atmospheric drag, light pressure, cargo ship docking, etc. If you want an accurate orbit, you'll have to update it on a daily basis.

ISS TLEs (Two Line Elements) are posted to the AMSAT SAREX mailing list regularly by "Dave Larsen PhD". [3] Here are the ISS TLE orbital parameters for August 16th, 2004:
ISS
1 25544U 98067A 04229.23839543 .00019757 00000-0 15906-3 0 4532
2 25544 51.6323 19.1941 0005251 117.9988 304.8582 15.70921896327755

Grant Hutchison has provided a spreadsheet to convert TLEs into Celestia SSCs[4] Also, don't forget that Celestia models the shape of the Earth using a spheroid. The actual shape of our planet is much more complicated. As a result, a view from the Earth's surface in Celestia is not accurate enough to show the correct path across the sky of satellites in low Earth orbit like the ISS. Another issue is that Celestia v1.5.1 and earlier use a fixed rotation speed for the Earth. Since the Earth's rotation is variable, the surface of Celestia's Earth is displaced from where it should be. Celestia v1.6 will use a more accurate variable rotation speed. In other words, you can't use Celestia to find out where to look in the sky to see the ISS.

en.wikibooks.org...

And you can't use Celestia to find out where the ISS was on September 11, 2001 at 09:00.

[edit on 11/30/2009 by Phage]

thats the stuff ... and enjoy because thats got to be the best stuff I have seen come from the space program. check out the galaxies that hubble has spied on... its just wonderful stuff. way better than anything I have seen before.

reply to post by Anti-Evil

I'm glad you agree.
You cannot tell where the station was on Sept 11 by using Celestia. Trying to do so is like trying to figure out where I live by seeing where I parked my car this morning.


[edit on 11/30/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Anti-Evil
reply to post by Phage

 

Yea, its obvious the software would just trash your theory - thats why I linked you to it. why answer something when the math doesnt add up.
with the story. sorry - thats what we are debating until your sidetracking on nonsense. if you want your answers then use the software.

What do you mean when you say Phage is "sidetracking"?

He's asking you plain and simple to prove that the ISS was over Africa at 9:00 AM. He's asking you what software you used. How is asking for the sources of your evidence "sidetracking"?

reply to post by Phage


well, you see you really should not assume. because you see I'm waiting on the Logs themselves to prove the software wrong. I see no need for software that lies... and I will have the logs soon enough. lets wait for the answer. how many skid marks were in the pilots underware>?

[edit on 30-11-2009 by Anti-Evil]

Originally posted by Anti-Evil
reply to post by Phage

 

well, you see you really should not assume. because you see I'm waiting on the Logs themselves to prove the software wrong. I see no need for software that lies...

The software is not necessarily "lying". Rather, the software may not be designed to go back in time that long ago. For example, does the software take into account the many orbital corrections there have been since 2001?

It probably doesn't -- it probably only relies on the orbit "today" and extrapolates information from that orbit -- meaning the past orbital corrections and future orbital corrections are not figured in, thus rendering the information you get based on "today's" orbit invalid.

[edit on 11/30/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

reply to post by Anti-Evil

Software doesn't lie. It's giving the right answer but it's using the wrong data. It's using current data to come up with an answer too far in the past. It's called GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).

But why do you care about 09:00? You should be more interested in 10:30 when the ISS was over New York and the astronauts were talking about the attack.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


and that was known at the opening that we will look at the logs just to see if that was the case or not. since we dont currently have the logs.
and I am currently tracking down copies of that video of ISS 911. and so far 7 all are blank of ID information like GMT etc. which should be there, but is mysterously missing, all copies viewed are all cropped the same.

The darn towers were brought down by controlled demolition. Anyone with half a brain knows that. Even if one of those darn planes had explosives that detonated on impacting with the building it still would not have brought down the buildings the way they came down.

God, controlled demolition for God's sakes. Sheesh. And not by the scapegoats that MSM directed the sheeple to.

we have a News stall, on all networks all at the same time. almost like a scene waiting for the lead actor to show up, kind of. this occurred around 10AM. and I dont know if you noticed but every network had a special VP that was downtown Manhatten that day. I found that interesting. and the planted guy that does the news circuit telling us the official story before its official. just filling in the blanks. going down blind alleys to see what there is too see. you know, Americans lost there lives that day 2760 I think. what kind of crazy world did I wake up in? It's one grand illusion

Ok children. class in session. You cannot know where the ISS was eight years ago backtracking using today's orbit. there are far too many variables. Orbit decay shortens the orbit travel and thence the elapsed time per orbit. that's just one variable. then there's the problem of mass increasing as modules are added requiring more excursions to fuel it for altitude re-boosts.


Follow this link to learn more about the ISS orbits. the lesson in this link is geared to the 5th through 12th high school grade level. so it should be accessible to 911 conspiradroids with a functioning brain.

www.challenger.org...

[edit on 30-11-2009 by A W Smith]

Originally posted by JackWestJr
The darn towers were brought down by controlled demolition. Anyone with half a brain knows that. .

those of us with a full brain disagree. Try to borrow some additional brain cells and struggle to post on topic for the thread you are posting in. mmkay?

Originally posted by A W Smith

Originally posted by JackWestJr
The darn towers were brought down by controlled demolition. Anyone with half a brain knows that. .

those of us with a full brain disagree. Try to borrow some additional brain cells and struggle to post on topic for the thread you are posting in. mmkay?

I beg to differ. Many of us with a full brain and then some agree with JackWestJr.

This is getting silly. Here is a basic instruction 101 of satellite orbits.

I have been tracking satellites since the mid-1980's when the first satellite tracking programs came out in DOS. A lot of us did so to communicate through Ham Radio equipped satellites, track and download images in real time from NOAA weather satellites, track Space Shuttle missions, MIR, and ISS. It's a hobby for us and depends on having freely available orbital elements to track them. They have always been available from many sites and are archived as well.

Satellites, including ISS, the International Space Station, are sent into specific orbits for specific reasons and limitations, according to the designed mission. ISS is in an orbit inclined to the equator at a nominal 51.64 degrees at an altitude of around 175 miles to 265 miles.

Satellites in orbit all have maneuvering thrusters and small engines to adjust their altitude, particularly in low earth orbits where atmospheric drag is a significant factor. They allow a satellite to maintain a specific altitude that would otherwise decay and eventually burn up in the atmosphere.

Virtually no satellite is designed to adjust their inclination while in orbit. There is NO purpose in doing so and requires enormous power to accomplish such a feat. The inclination is set according to the design mission of the satellite before launch and the launch of a satellite is set to a specific direction to achieve the desired inclination.

The greater the inclination to the equator, the more land mass and ocean a satellite can cover. NOAA weather satellites have an inclination of around 89 degrees, meaning they are in a polar orbit. Their altitudes are set to allow each satellite to pass over the same spot on earth at the same time each day. NOAA weather satellites are divided into "morning and afternoon" passes.

Likewise, GOES satellites that some of us use to watch television and are used as weather satellites are designed to be in what is known as "stationary orbits." They are inclined at about 1/2 degree to the equator and are at an altitude of about 22,500 miles. At that altitude, one orbit of the satellite is exactly 24 hours, the same as the earth's rotation. As a result, the satellite appears to always hover over the same spot on earth.

ISS is inclined to the equator at a nominal 51.64 degrees for a very specific reason. Part of its mission is to cover ocean and earth resources and maximum coverage was desired. It could have been launched into a polar orbit to do that, like weather satellites, but there was a crucial restriction preventing it from doing so. The reason is that a 51.6 degree inclination represents the MAXIMUM inclination that any Space Shuttle could be launched without passing over any landmass of the USA during the launch phase, a crucial safety measure NASA has always imposed on launches from both Cape Kennedy and Vandenburg in California, that in case of launch accidents at any stage no one would be at risk.

Orbital elements for low orbiting satellites are only accurate for 2 to 3 days max. ISS and the Shuttle are subject to atmospheric drag and make adjustments constantly. Orbital elements are instantaneous measurements at one point in time and are so designated. They are largely calculated from ground-based radar measurements and are usually updated daily. Plugging in today's orbital elements into a software program and then trying to use them at a point in time in the past is folly and idiocy. It is meaningless.

So, what about ISS on 9/11?

Nothing special.

It was tooting along waiting for the Progress M-SO1 supply mission launched on 9/14/201 and passed near enough NYC on two successive passes to see NYC. The first pass was the closer and better pass and the crew was able to capture pictures of the aftermath of the attacks such as this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a751ac9ac7ac.jpg[/atsimg]

So, does anyone want to verify the orbit of ISS before, during, and after to see where it was? It's simple. Just go to the archive of ISS orbital elements since the day it was launched in 1998:

celestrak.com...

Plug in the two-line elements for any day you want into your favorite satellite tracking software and have at it.

And please don't be tempted to bring up Judy Wood's silly conspiracy theory that "The crew of the International Space Station (ISS) can see "terrorist Carnage" in NYC on 9/11/01, but can't see a hurricane that was there, too? They passed directly over NYC on only one of their 90-minute orbits, but passed over or nearby Hurricane Erin on multiple orbits."

www.drjudywood.com...

Now this thread can be relegated to the trash bin where it belongs.

Gentle Reminder

It is always best to discuss the topic and not each other.
Please read the following:
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Just the fact that the ISS orbits around the Earth every 90 minutes is enough for me to give the benefit of the doubt to inaccurate logs/data/etc. There is plenty of other data that is inaccurate concerning 9/11 such as 93 being at two places at once.

Don't be surprised if NASA knew about 9/11 in advance. But don't expect to prove it either regardless of what data or interviews you have.

Remember, the official story was that 93 crashed when the passengers fought back. Yet even Donald Rumsfeld was fooled into thinking 93 was shot down when in reality it landed at Cleveland International.

[edit on 11/30/2009 by nightmarehalo]

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

This suggests another way it could have been done, with advanced planning. Use the fuel and engines from an unmanned cargo vehicle from earth to raise the orbit when it docked at the station.

To what end? Or is there an unsaid claim here - perhaps the ISS shot down lazer beams and holograms to take down the towers?

I don't get it.

Why would such an endeavor be undertaken, if all it does is add fuel to the conspiracy theory?

And are people really trying to say that

Commander Frank Culbertson and Flight Engineers Vladimir Dezhurov and Mikhail Tyurin occupied the International Space Station for 117 days from August 2001 through December 2001.

knew about the attacks of September 11'th ? International crew? On an International space station?

reply to post by Anti-Evil

ISS is over NYC on 911 instead of Africa

ISS orbits the earth every 91 minutes. According to the 9-11 timeline, roughly 17 minutes passed between the first and second crashes. That would be enough time for ISS to travel 18% around the planet.

So yes...it was over New York. And yes it was over africa. There's no contradiction here.

ISS has a specific track =p

it's supposed to pass through new york a few time per day.

I am sorry super mods, it is just that no matter whether it is ISS or something else, it boils down to a 9/11 conspiracy. Now considering I have seen all the documentaries, read all the reports, etc, etc I have come to the conclusion (having seen documentaries on controlled demolitions) that this was a well thought out, well planned controlled demolition of the towers for various reasons that have been brought up by previous conspiracy theorists. A couple of those are:

The US needed a reason to invade Irak was it? God, there has been so many darn countries in the last 15 years to find what, a stargate, etc, etc, whatever the reason the fact of the matter was ofcourse people in certain positions knew about it, it was a well known fact that it was going to happen by a lot in the know. That is obvious.

The worst part of the whole thing is they killed, maimed and burnt their own citizens because of their own hidden agenda. Obviously there are still people about that cannot bring themselves to believe it still even now.