Death & U.S.

Consider something for a moment if you will...

We pass from this world...and all around this world, different beliefs exist in this regard.

The US will deny and ignore this passing of life with distractions from our mortality, in daily life; while many nations of people recognize this passing of life everywhere in nature, understand and celebrate it like a returning home.

Differences in regards to belief arise from religion and tradition, which dictate funerary rites, reinforcing our cultural perceptions of the passing of life.

In this country we develop from youth in a materialistic lifestyle, and although religions claim otherwise, funerals reflect more closely this attachment to materiality as we enshrine the body in a coffin, untouched by the elements of Earth from which we arose, in a unnatural state til the end of days of planet Earth.

Ancient and modern, there are cultures whose understanding greatly differs, and consequently celebrates this passing of life as the Souls departure from a shell, returning the body to the elements of Earth either wrapped in clothe in the ground, usually on the families land, or a funeral pyre of fire or sea.

Some cultures are very confused by our practices for the passing of life.

Our culture is backwards and nearly all of our systems or practices reflect this...and whether you agree or not is based in personal opinion and experience.

Please ponder presented points:
+nearly all of us have experienced someones passing of life
+gradually, we ease and release, and the crying ceases

The idea for everyone here is whether you think that we overcome the sadness because the memory fades...
or because no matter what the belief system, a peice of us deep inside knows /feels that our LOVEd one has returned home to the source from which we were born!


LOVE

Nice thread.
I agree that we in the West (I'm from the UK though) generally take a dark view regarding death.
I have many friends who have shed their skins and crossed over, and it still hurts like Hell when there's a gaping hole in my reality after they've gone.
I am fortunate in that I have had personal contact with my departed friends after the event, but it still hurts no less when another one pops off back to the 'soup'.
At least I know as much as my belief will allow that they're free and safe, and that they're never far away, should I require their assistance.
They've never let me down once yet.

Cheers.

I.A.

I have never understood the sadness associated with death, ever. My first experience with death was when I was 8 and my grandfather died. We were exceptionally close, I lived with him (and grandma and my mom) from 1 until I was 5 and for that period he was my father figure. When I was 8 he died suddenly, before we even got to the hospital. I remember crying initially when they told me then I asked to see him. The nurses freaked out thinking it was cause some sort of psych problem, it didn't, I went into the room and kissed him goodbye. I remember at the funeral the Priest came up to me (we were Catholic) and told me how brave I was, I told him that there was nothing brave about it, it was my grandfather. I wouldn't say I was happy (far from) but I knew that I was sadden because I missed him and not necessarily the death. A few weeks later he came to visit me and let me know that he was alright and after that I never worried about it (the what if's that run through a child's mind). The only time I may get upset about a death is in the event of a child, adults don't bother me.

I also do not understand how when a person a religious (whatever religion) and claims that they believe in a form of afterlife, why they would be upset by someone going there. It has never made any sense to me.

THank you for sharing


LOVE

reply to post by searching4truth


I'm as puzzled as you are, especially where I'm concerned, as I've been taken over there/here and seen it for myself.
It is different now though, as apart from the fact that I miss the person in question, I feel an overwhelming sense of love which is so intense that I cannot always handle it (i'm getting it a bit now as I'm writing this.) and THAT hurts in a way, but a pleasant one, if that makes any sense.
(No jokes about masochism here please:lol
I do feel extremely privelaged though, as I've always known that death isn't the end, but I think there's a part of my mind that gets full of doubt, and as an open minded skeptic, I sometimes get this kind of conflict going on.
Still, I'd rather be this way than an all out unquestioning sucker for any whacko idea that pops into my head.
I only wish I had the unwavering conviction of my beliefs like you seen to have without this doubting Thomas that keeps popping up from time to time.

Cheers.

I.A.

Oops!!

Double post.

As you were.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by Illegal Alien]

I absolutely agree w/ the sentiments of your thread, here. But just would like to echo the fact that, yeah, it damn well hurts to see the important people in your life be off. Really hurts - even though you know they are better off than you.

I saw my grandfather much the same as searching4truth, sitting on the edge of my brothers bed one morning, and he was looking at me, smiled, got up and 'poof', he was gone. Whether or not I was dreaming, I don't know, and I don't care.... the result was the same. He smiled at me. He was good. I've never seen anyone else that has left prematurely like that, including my mom, which only adds to the confusion of dream or not. One day, we'll all find out.

reply to post by Illegal Alien


Wow, if you could share your experience of going there I would be very interested. I've posted mine around here, but I'll do a condensed version here.

We stayed on Earth, he came into my room and told me we were going to take a trip back to his house. We flew there (it was a fun time) and watched all the visitors coming to see the family. I remember everyone was crying and he asked me if I knew why they were upset, to which I replied that they were sad because he had died. We were hovering around the ceiling, floating I suppose. He asked if he looked said, and I told him no it seemed to be a pretty good time, he laughed and said that everything was wonderful and not to be sad or afraid. After that he brought me back home, said good bye and that was that. This happened over 20 yrs ago and I remember it like was yesterday and very vividly. A few years ago I told my mom about it, and she simply replied "and it has been passed on" she said they used to play games reading each others minds when she was a kid, but he was the only person she could do it with, but that was all that she explained, so I don't know exactly what that means.

Well, that is until a few months ago when I spotted him in a dream of mine, recognized him, and then it wasn't so much of a dream anymore and he gave me a message for a relative.

I had an experience with one other friend of mine who prematurely passed in high school. This one I'm not too certain if it was a dream or not. This person had passed and a few weeks after the funeral he came to me. It was all very foggy outside (I knew we were outside) to the point where you couldn't see a foot in front of your face. Then he came out and the fog lifted a little bit and I could tell we were at the cemetery where he had been buried. He was walking around his grave and smiling, all he said that he had always wondered what his headstone would look like. That whole experience was a little overwhelming as I became a little scared and snapped out of it. This was odd to me because I told a friend of mine who was particularly close to him and his family. He died in a motorcycle accident and after the fact his mother had his bike in the garage for awhile, after a few weeks to had it moved to another relatives house because she literally kept seeing him on or near the bike. I don't know if it ceased after she moved it.

What is death?

Think not, o king, upon that lie: That Thou Must Die: verily thou shalt not die, but live. Now let it be understood: If the body of the King dissolve, he shall remain in pure ecstasy for ever.

If the body of one you love dissolves, then you celebrate their life. So long as their name remains, either etched in the memory of the living, or upon Tomb or Grave, then they continue to live on.

Death, as it is commonly understood in the West, is a lie and is nothing to either be feared or mourned.

Certainly living a life in denial or avoidance of Death, out of fear or clinging to life, is not living either.

The Ancient Egyptians would spend their lives preparing for the After-life so much that we consider their entire culture to be worshipers of Death when in reality they were living not for today but for tomorrow, welcoming the continuance of their journey in the next world rather than fearing it. They would honor the memory of those who made that journey by placing importance upon preparing them for their journey, and by remembering them by making offerings to their Ba, or retaining their Ren.

Myself, I have tried to do likewise. I live life to the fullest, without regret or apology, and spend my days preparing my life's work to be a legacy that can be passed down through the ages. I have one legacy for my familial descendants, and another legacy to be passed on to those that carry on my life's work.

My daughter fears me dying. She has ever since she first understood what death means. All it took was convincing her that I will always be with her, whether in corporeal form or not. When she is at school she closes her eyes and knows that I am there with her, within her heart and mind. She knows that in death it will be no different. Still, to placate her concerns she wanted to learn the proper prayers to be said to my Ba Statue so that my Ba will always remain accessible to the living. That little reassurance was all that she has needed to no longer fear loss.

Our existence is not defined by this flesh that we wear, nor by the blood that flows through our veins, nor even by the winds of change that we breathe in and out with every passing moment. Our existence is not found in the perishable, but by the imperishable shalt our existence be found and defined. The living do not stop living although our bodies may wither and dissolve. The living continue to live, having unlocked the secrets to existence early. It is the living dead that fear living life and as such, fear death.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by fraterormus]

reply to post by searching4truth


Thanks for the reply.

My experience was initiated by a subject which may violate ATS terms and conditions, if you know what I mean.
I know many people will think I was just having hallucinations and stuff, but this was way different to my previous experiences of this nature.

Anyway, here goes.

I was at a party, and was with a friend in the living room of a large house.
I had always had a kind of spiritual dilemma, in that I felt I needed to find out who I am.
I was feeling the initial effects, and asked the question; 'If there is a God, Creator, Ancestors or anything, out there, please tell me who I am'. The feeling as I was asking this was one of sheer desperation as it was important to me.

Then someone came in the room through the door behind me, and when I turned around to see who it was.
The door was still closed and there was no'body' there.
There was, however, a 'human shaped space' in the atmosphere, and I said to my mate, 'Can you feel something?' to which he replied 'yes'.
He then, for some reason got up and went out of the room, and the presence went around the back of the sofa to the opposite side.

I kept wondering who it was, and kept asking, but I got the feeling that whoever it was, was enjoying my bafflement, and holding off for a while.
Then a picture of a really good schoolfriend of mine who had passed over a few years earlier appeared in my mind, and a 'voice' came into my head saying 'You know damn well who you are.' , and sure enough I did. My question was answered.

Then it was as if the whole room was in an elevator, and moving upwards at a tremendous speed, and the walls, and all the objects in the room gradually took on a kind of transparency.
What I could perceive beyond it was something so beautiful and fantastic I will never forget it as long as I live.

It was a sort of universe of incredible architectures, like cathedrals one minute (If time can be a factor in this instance) and then some equally fantastic structures the next. All glowing with their own internal light, constantly changing and melting into different forms, which went on forever in all directions.

The Spirits, or Stars as I like to call them were extremely bright points of light which hovered and zipped about, came and said hello and zoomed off again leaving me with sensations of joy, love and abandon which are beyond the best feelings I've ever experienced.

Each individual indentified themselves by surrounding themselves with a kind of hologram of associated imagery of what they were in life. For instance, the Star of Jimi Hendrix was surrounded by images of animated guitars and various psychedelic objects, and so on, which was odd to me, because I wasn't even into Hendrix at the time, so in my opinion it couldn't have been coloured by my personal preferences in music.

It was almost too much for me to bear, and I was laughing and crying at the same time, and later on when I went to see my still corporeal friends who were in other rooms of the house, they thought I had flipped and gone a bit crazy, which of course, I had.

I felt totally at one with the multiverse, and nothing mattered anymore, and that all things add up in the end.
I didn't see any tunnels of light, nor was I aware of having left my body.
It was as though I was seeing 'through' my eyes, rather then with them, and the thing that was doing the seeing was my own Star, or self.
In a paradoxical kind of way, I was 'in' the multiverse, and I also contained it.
Suddenly, I understood all the books on spirituality I had been reading, whereas before I could only accept what they were saying from an outsider's point of view.

I could go on for ages about this, but this post is turning into an epic, and most of the main points have been outlined above.

I know I'll probably get flamed and stuff, and some people will call BS and all that, but I honestly don't care, as quite a few people to whom I've related this experience have looked at me like I was some kind of nutter, but thankfully most have been interested.

The way I see it I experienced what I experienced, and am relating it as requested.
I'd rather believe in this than in an idea of everything coming to a dead end at the termination of this lifetime, and seeing as hardly anyone actually knows for sure what will happen, a belief is the best we can hope for in my opinion until the big crunch.
I'm also aware that many shamanic cultures use this technique to experience similar states of consciousness, and I reckon I did it whilst being unaware of what I was actually doing.

I believe this as much as I believe I am sitting here typing this, and I hope that someone will find some comfort from it.

Thanks for your interest, and all the best.

By the way, some fantastic accounts on here so far, keep 'em coming.

Was the message to your relative relevant to their situation?

I.A.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by Illegal Alien]

[edit on 30-11-2009 by Illegal Alien]

That sounds amazing, thanks for the details . Yeah, your right the circumstances of the evening place a shadow on the event, but if you believe they were unrelated I believe you.

When he came back the second time it was a little odd. I was having a dream and most of the family was together for some reason and we were talking. Then someone said something to me that was so absurd I knew it wasn't true and I realized that I was dreaming/not dreaming anymore (I don't know), that is when I saw him sitting in a chair in the corner. I walked up to him and began crying tears of joy, I started to tell him how much I missed him, how much the family missed him, and for some reason I specified my mother (they were very close). He told me that he comes around a lot and that I should tell my mom to pay attention.

A few days later my mom and I were talking and the subject came up (we don't often talk about grandpa as his passing was pretty difficult for her). I told her, "you may think I'm nuts but I had a dream about grandpa and he told me to tell you to start paying better attention, that he comes to visit and you disregard it (writing it off as something else)." She was a little shocked but said that it made sense.


Now I'm left wondering how often he dream drops and what he's witnessed in my dreams that grandparents shouldn't know . I know that if I hadn't realized I was dreaming at the time he would have gone unnoticed, just stayed and observed, it was because I recognized the situation that I was able to visit. But then I wonder if he made the situation so crazy that I would realize the dream and we could chat, who knows.

I tend to believe these dreams as I often have dreams where they later come true. I wouldn't say psychic bc its never anything really relevant, just places I will go to, conversations I'll have, little stuff like that, too bad I don't see myself holding the winning lottery card. I do remember one though from my midteens where I was like a ghost in a house and I saw myself asleep in bed with a man that I knew was my husband, but I didn't see his face (very odd at the time as I never wanted to get married). Years and years later after I got married the layout of our first apartment and the furniture placement was identical to the dream. I would say it is that feeling of deja vu, but instead of not knowing why, I will instantly remember the dream and where I was living at time.

Great thread , guys. I don't have a view on this ( not one I could easily put into words ) , but I am enjoying reading all your posts

Regards

reply to post by searching4truth

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.
I suppose you probably get people saying thing like, 'Yeah, but it was just a dream wasn't it?'
Still I suppose the naysayers do have their benefits in that they help us to review our experiences, and keep our feet on the ground.
The thing is, as far as I can see, we all have our experiences in this life, illusory, or otherwise, and to us they can be as real as we decide to make them, though it does help if we have other 'real world' experiences to back them up, like you have (and me, for that matter).
Some people reckon that the dream state is commonly where our ancestors choose to contact us, as it's kind of the halfway house between the worlds, and plastic enough to be moulded by desire.

What you said about the deja vu thing.
I have a theory about deja vu.
Have you ever heard 'enlightened people' go on about the timelessness of the 'other side', and the 'eternal now'?
I reckon when we're dreaming, we have a foot in both worlds, as it were, and if one of those worlds is timeless, then all events in our world of time are accessible in eternity during the dream state.
That's how I make sense of the prophetic dreams/deja vu phenomena.
Could be wrong, of course, but it'll do for now, and I can always change my mind if I find a better explanation.
That's the beauty of being free.

Thanks for starting this thread, by the way.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by Illegal Alien]