I have no sense of duty...

reply to post by chillpill

Is the difference that duty is motivated by fear (if you dont do something there's a negative consequence), and service is motivated by care and compassion (you just do it because you want to)?

forgot this part - (so much for lucidity)

now you made me think

if we want to get into morality and motivation...

I see that - fear

I do think most people who feel a sense of duty would call it loyalty and a sense responsibility

it all starts to head into something else that I think is fascinating - nationalism/patriotism - and even racism

don't want to muck up a perfectly lovely topic :-)

but what is the motivation behind much of what we do anyway?

why do we feel duty bound? (if that's what we feel)

why is it so hard to do what we believe is right - instead of what the group believes is right?

Take military duty out of it - I would fight to protect my home territory.

No lets don't take military duty of it either! Name me one war or conflict since WWII that has been necessary to assure the safety and freedom of our country? All this 'their fighting for our country' is hogwash (not that most military aren't sincere in their efforts - but sincerely mislead IMO). Besides that, I place the US interests as not more important than those of other countries (contrary to the overboard patriotism and arrogance of most Americans). And that is what the military is REALLY involved in is US interests (and not our 'freedom' as all the hype would suggest).


[edit on 30-11-2009 by whatsup]

Originally posted by whatsup

Take military duty out of it - I would fight to protect my home territory.

No lets don't take military duty of it either! Name me one war or conflict since WWII that has been necessary to assure the safety and freedom of our country? All this 'their fighting for our country' is hogwash (not that most military aren't sincere in their efforts - but sincerely mislead IMO). Besides that, I place the US interests as not more important than those of other countries (contrary to the overboard patriotism and arrogance of most Americans). And that is what the military is REALLY involved in is US interests (and not our 'freedom' as all the hype would suggest).


[edit on 30-11-2009 by whatsup]

No, it stays out..because it's a type of duty that confuses the subject raised.

I am talking about the 'everyday' duty - the duty in each tiny interaction. Nothing to do with patriotism, but the small things that people do for each other...

But I like what you say

i absolutely despise the feeling of obligation....there is no quicker way to turn me off. i have never known anyone with a bigger authority problem than me. i am friendless (with the exeption of family). i am alone. i give nothing to nobody, and i expect nothing in return.

and i LIKE it.

according to Rousseau's "Social Contract", the entire point of having society in the first place is to provide the opportunity for the few to break away and live on the fringes in order to push the boundaries of progression.

so ultimately, those of you whom are hyping up a sense of duty are actually being short sighted. if you want to be one of the drones that holds this fabric together, that is certainly an important role to play.

but if you reaching for the stars, a sense of duty will serve only to hold you back.

Originally posted by tgidkp
i absolutely despise the feeling of obligation....there is no quicker way to turn me off. i have never known anyone with a bigger authority problem than me. i am friendless (with the exeption of family). i am alone. i give nothing to nobody, and i expect nothing in return.

and i LIKE it.

according to Rousseau's "Social Contract", the entire point of having society in the first place is to provide the opportunity for the few to break away and live on the fringes in order to push the boundaries of progression.

so ultimately, those of you whom are hyping up a sense of duty are actually being short sighted. if you want to be one of the drones that holds this fabric together, that is certainly an important role to play.

but if you reaching for the stars, a sense of duty will serve only to hold you back.

I find your views interesting - I have broken away from my family completely as I refuse to be obliged to listen to their bickering and small mindedness.

I have few friends...I like being alone.

I wonder if this is a common trait for people who feel they have little sense of duty?

reply to post by tgidkp


:-)

...but if you reaching for the stars, a sense of duty will serve only to hold you back.

there is no possible way that this will be interpreted correctly - I know

but please - accept that it is with humor only that I ask: how many stars have you reached?

I think we all find our place - sometimes - maybe...

I do think for many duty is seen as the opposite of selfishness

so, is that what it comes down to?

selfish versus unselfish behavior?

is doing what's best for the group better or worse than doing what's best for the individual?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Aye, but we are back to the same thing...is the motivation behind the 'group' commitment done out of selflessness or selfishness...

You've perplexed me! Does that motivation matter? I cannot make up my mind.

The older I get, the less I think that I confuse 'duty' with society's brainwashing of me into buying into established customs and expectations.

With each trend that I buck, I find myself more at ease in questioning why I really needed to conform in the first place.

With respect to my 'duty' to give back to society, I will only do what I can and want to. While I was trying to fulfill society's supermom role, other people would be required to suffer and sacrifice on my behalf to make this possible. How does that benefit society in the long run? I do my duty for society now by looking after myself and not putting society in the position of having to bail me out.

I don't dutifully colour my hair like 99% of women my age do because society requires me to look more youthful. I finally realized that the colour of my hair in no way changes the truth of my age.

I no longer dutifully vote for the lesser of three evils on an election ballot because I am limited to those choices and society says I have to exercise my right to vote. If I don't think that any are qualified, I exercise my voting right by writing on my ballot why I refuse to select the 'best of the worst'.

I don't defer to my parent in all matters because society says it's our duty to respect our elders. If my heart tells me my parent is wrong, then I will follow my heart and not worry about how society judges me.

My 'duty' is to be a productive, law-abiding, non-violent citizen. I am satisfied when I feel that I am accomplishing these things within an environment where my freedom and those of my fellow humans is respected.

this thread fails on so many levels....

what if your parents felt like they didnt have a 'duty' to take care of you and left your infant body for easy picking to wild animals.. would you even be here?

what if the rest of the world shared the same sentiments as some of the posts on this thread, you think you would have a society to live in today? what do you think it would be like, really?

what if people didnt have a sense of urgency to put their lives on the line for complete strangers, do yo think a lot of you would be here?

what if scientists didnt have a sense of duty to find cures to save and treat billions of people they will never even hear of....

what if Newton, Edison, Jefferson, Einstein, my neighbor, all shared the same ideology as this thread, i surely wouldnt be alive today.

its like some people dont think about what the say.

Come on ATSers...are we mainly a forum of 'rulebreakers', or are we outwardly mainly conformists who use ATS as a virtual outlet for our non-conformist ideas.

you can be non-conformist and be intelligent at the same time.
i bet you would hesitate or at least chuckle as you say this if you were in a public place. but on the virtual internet its Willy-Nilly.

people use the veil of anonymity to put on different masks at different times. this is a prime example.

i wonder if bees felt like being non-conformists and didnt feel like pollinating for a year or two, what would happen to the world....

reply to post by deadlysponge


I dont think you have said anything to the contrary - merely reinforced some points.

Thanks!

reply to post by deadlysponge

this thread fails on so many levels....

fails at what?

reply to post by chillpill

Does that motivation matter? I cannot make up my mind.

see - me neither

so much of our behavior seems to exist with or without our permission

what we call it may only be what we call it - making the behavior more palatable for the individual - but it still works for the group in the end

even when the individual believes they're doing exactly what suits them

Probably the best advice I've ever run across about the concept of duty was proffered by Robert A. Heinlein through the character Lazarus Long:


www.angelfire.com...

Do not confuse “duty” with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anytbing from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect. But there is no reward at all for doing what other people expect of you, and to do so is not merely difficult, but impossible. It is easier to deal with a footpad than it is with the leech who wants “just a few minutes of your time, please--this won’t take long.” Time is your total capital, and the minutes of your life are painfully few. If you allow yourself to fall into the vice of agreeing to such requests, they quickly snowball to the point where these parasites will use up 100 percent of your time--and squawk for more! So learn to say No--and to be rude about it when necessary. Otherwise you will not have time to carry out your duty, or to do your own work, and certainly no time for love and happiness. The termites will nibble away your life and leave none of it for you. (This rule does not mean that you must not do a favor for a friend, or even a stranger. But let the choice be yours. Don’t do it because it is “expected” of you.)

I know when I've wavered on whether I was duty-bound about anything, I'd think of this and it would clarify things for me.

Originally posted by apacheman
Do not confuse “duty” with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily.

-Exactly! That is what I wanted to say too.

Originally posted by chillpill

Originally posted by Carlthulhu
reply to post by chillpill

 

I'm sorry to say, I'm right there with your partner. Civillians are strange. I'll still try to do my best though, as I've always been a person that swims against the flow. I've become more self-reliant in the year out. But I still tend to extend a hand out in trust to my fellow civillians. You can be trusting without being stupid. How was that old saying of Bush? "Fail me once, shame on you. Fail me twice, shame on you -or was it me?"

I usually give people about 5 tries.

Yes, and he keeps getting bitten. Best thing is that I end up being the bad one. Everyone loves him. Everyone thinks he is trusting. Everyone thinks they can take full advantage of him.

I point out that people are not performing...even if he see it and he delivers the bad news...I still get it in the neck.

He is loved. I am hated!

It's so funny...

But people do not like being 'found out' for not playing the game as they have said they would...unfortunately, I can be outspoken!

Sounds like you complement each other perfectly!
And regardless of your partner I'm sure you're hated by the people you expose which I'm sure you already realize! I say keep on exposing and and enjoy their animosity as it proves you're doing a GREAT job of shining the Light!!

Great question...I could have answered it a few years ago with absolute certainty, but the more I learn the more I realize I know NOTHING. A great deal of what has been presented as fact has been pure propaganda. Purpose/duty requires certainty and I doubt I'll have any of that soon.

My recommendation is to continue your pursuit of truth and in finding truth you'll find duty.

reply to post by joshuacrumbaugh


Now that is an interesting point...I am going to go away and try and work out what you mean!

I feel a sense of duty to raise my children properly. Some might deem parenting a service since it's helping out someone besides myself, but it's a sense of duty too. I had them voluntarily, and it is my responsibility (as well as their father's) to nurture, educate, and protect them. I think that all parents should fulfill their duty to stay in their children's lives and work to instill values in them that will hopefully make them confident, responsible, conscientious, productive members of society. IMO, our society's service-to-self mindset plays a huge part in the state of the world as it is today. If people do not care for others, then those same people shouldn't realistically expect others to care for them and wonder why nobody does. That's my two cents. I know the Golden Rule is in there somewhere.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by gazerstar]

this is moot... thats what i meant by fail.

the point is this, if you feel you owe society nothing, then society owes you nothing; no rights, no care, no pity, not even a reply on the forums, [and forget about the 'take a penny , leave a penny policy... since you'd be likely not to leave a penny; get my drift?]

if this is truly the OP's sentiment toward modern day civilization, then there isnt much one can say, but society owes him/her nothing.

ironically, if 9 out 10 people shared that same sentiment, then civilization would have collapsed long ago.

there is really no point in making this sound like an intelligent argument.

although i dont think no man actually live their lives in a 'laissez-faire' manner, as we [mankind] do posses an innate trait of reciprocity, but its safe to say 99% of adult male go through that stage in in life -why should i contribute to society-
almost alike a general aptitude test in my opinion

my 2 cents.

edit: and please dont take my words out of context [ reply to post by Spiramirabilis
]

[edit on 30-11-2009 by deadlysponge]

reply to post by chillpill


Boy, did your post strike a thread with me. I was raised with an extreme sense of duty and a deep rooted work ethic. I am loyal to my family (I'm a Tennessee Hill Celt so I guess you can think Clan) and my friends. I would defend the helpless and I hate injustice. I have served in the Navy and would defend my country to the death. That being said, I don't care much for the current Imperial Rome type of government we have and believe we are being and have been manipulated for generations, played like a violin.

No more.