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Many have died in the war on drugs

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posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 11:46 PM
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casualties

This is the one that bothers me the most. Many cases where people have been killed simply as bystanders. Officers and civilians alike taken down in a senseless war. What drives a country to violence against it's own citizens?

I'm not defending criminals here, and i salute the officers who patrol our streets to keep us safe from real criminals. What I'm bothered by is the fact that we're naming people criminals because of a choice they make that should be a personal one.

It's time to realize that like any war the war on drugs has created an untenable aspect of collateral damage.




Government agencies were interested in the property of this reclusive millionaire. A warrant was issued based on concocted “evidence” of supposed marijuana plantings, and a major raid was conducted with a 32-man assault team. Scott was shot to death in front of his wife. No drugs were found. A later official report found: “It is the District Attorney’s opinion that the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department was motivated, at least in part, by a desire to seize and forfeit the ranch for the government. Based in part upon the possibility of forfeiture, Spencer obtained a search warrant that was not supported by probable cause. This search warrant became Donald Scott’s death warrant.”





Derek Hale 25 years old Wilmington, Delaware November, 2006 A retired Marine Sergeant who served two tours in Iraq, was peacefully sitting on the front stoop of a house, when police in unmarked cars who had him under surveillance (believing based on his acquaintances that he might be part of a narcotics ring) pulled up and tasered him three times, causing him to go into convulsions and throw up. Because he had not gotten his hand free from his jacket quickly enough (while convulsing) an officer then shot him point blank in the chest with three .40 caliber rounds. Hale’s widow has filed a civil lawsuit.


the sad thing about this is it's just a quick list of some of the more known cases. People are still dying in this war, cops, agents, and civilians having their lives ended in a senseless war.

Are we truly at war with ourselves?



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 12:39 AM
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It really makes me sad that there is a war on substances that people choose whether or not to put them in their body on thier own choice. Everyday people die due to drug activity. Down here in Dallas, theres a murder everynight, if not more and it usually involves a robbery where someone wants money to spend on some kind of drug. Drugs are never going to go away.

Another thing that makes me really upset is when the typical suburban teenager is bored and ends up getting busted with a very tiny amount of some substance like coke for example. Then they have a felony on their record for the rest of their life with the threat of going to prison for years. All for just a 10 dollar rock.

I just cant understand why the state would ruin someones life for just doing something of their own choice and putting it in their own body that dosent affect anyone else.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by Seiko
 


People can make their own choices IMO -

To many have died and we have likely spent over a trillion dollars housing "offenders"
over the decades.

I believe at least half of gang violence has to do with drugs, well I know so.

S+F



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


Exactly. I live in texas, one of the states with the one of the biggest budgets in the prison industry. The state dosent even run some of our prisons now. We have a few other corporations that actually run some of the prisons. We got the GEO corp and also the Correctional Centers of America running more than just a few now. TDCJ problably only runs not even 45% of our prisons here.

About the gangs to. I know that most of the violence is over drugs. Living in a big city or the surroundings, you can tell pretty fast what the gangs are really about. Money and drugs, and violence is a by-product of both.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by buni11687
reply to post by Janky Red
 


Exactly. I live in texas, one of the states with the one of the biggest budgets in the prison industry. The state dosent even run some of our prisons now. We have a few other corporations that actually run some of the prisons. We got the GEO corp and also the Correctional Centers of America running more than just a few now. TDCJ problably only runs not even 45% of our prisons here.

About the gangs to. I know that most of the violence is over drugs. Living in a big city or the surroundings, you can tell pretty fast what the gangs are really about. Money and drugs, and violence is a by-product of both.


We want to start saving as a nation, easy deal...
The gangbangers will be SOL too -

I think the effects would be staggering



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


Drug violence through gang crime is a serious problem. I'm sure gangs will still exist, but take away the funding. There's no reason so many should be profiting on the misery of others.

The war on drugs has turned our city streets into battle fields.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 02:24 AM
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Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing should be regulated in the US to save ourselves from ourselves.

Their is no reasons or excuses you could come up with that would change my mind.

Do not even go near the cost to society by someone's use of drugs that may become detrimental to their health-do not go their.

The only laws that are legal, according to our Constitution, where one person's actions harm another or infringe upon their rights.

Tax and control, control and tax. My new slogan, and the government's of the worlds policy.

Pretty soon fruits, vegetables and vitamins will require a doctor's prescription.

Do not believe me? Their are already laws on the books and treaties passed.

They are just rigging up the protocols of control.

Janky Red, nice posts. WTF, never thought I would say that.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by buni11687
Everyday people die due to drug activity. Down here in Dallas, theres a murder everynight, if not more and it usually involves a robbery where someone wants money to spend on some kind of drug.

I just cant understand why the state would ruin someones life for just doing something of their own choice and putting it in their own body that dosent affect anyone else.


You say one thing about it and then turn around and say something completely opposite about it, but you think you're making the same point.

Someone using illegal drugs, eventhough they put it in their own body, DOES effect other people.

What about the person that causes a massive traffic accident on I-35 resulting in multiple fatalities because he was under the influence of drugs?

What about the person that can't hold down a job due to their drug habit and decides to break into your house and winds up killing you or your child because they were looking for something to sell or trade to get their drug fix?

How about when the police call you and tell you that they've found your daughter's body behind a dumpster in Deep Ellum because some piece of 5hit crack junkie decided that he needed her money worse than she did??

I guess all of that would be okay with you, just as long as the guy doesn't go to jail for being under the influence of crack, meth, coc aine, heroine etc. Right?

Or do you think it's okay for them to do drugs as long as they don't commit a crime?

You can not have one without the other.

Illegal drugs are illegal for a reason. They destroy peoples lives. The user and the innocent alike.

They impair the basic bodily functions, cloud the mind, cause rage and paranoia.

Crack heads aren't unemployed and homeless criminals because they WANT to be. They're homeless unemployed criminals because they can not live a productive life due to their addiction to crack.

Drug addicts spread crime and disease. If there were no drug addicts, there would be no drug dealers. If there were no drug dealers, there would be no drug addicts. And if BOTH of these groups were nonexistent, then our societies would be A LOT better.

And don't try to spout any BS about marijuana being any better. While it may not have the devestating effects like crack and heroine, it still impairs the body.

The same body that is driving your kids schoolbus, or operating the forklift at your job, or piloting your vacation flight.

And there's no sense of trying to argue the "they can stay at home to do their drugs" point, because we all know about the countless lives that are taken away each year by Drunk Drivers. People that were under the influence of a LEGAL substance that cause the same ill impaired effects as illegal drugs.

And at your daughters funeral, when her murderer comes over to appologize for killing her over $5 .. Make sure you give him a big ass hug and tell him that it's okay that she is dead, atleast his freedoms for drug use were not infringed upon. Then you can spot him a few bucks so he can go get high to help him cope with your loss.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 04:12 AM
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reply to post by Detailed Perfection
 


This is the most absurd what if I've read here in a long time.

Why don't you read the page I linked to in my op? It's not "lets pretend someone dies" it's a page about real people who died. People who died because someone like you thought it was necessary to tell other people how to live.

Your argument doesn't address this point.

If drugs are already illegal, and yet people still do them and do bad things what is it that's missing?

Murder is also illegal. People still kill people.

Driving under the influence is already illegal, yet people still do.

Passing laws that take away a persons right to decide what to do with themselves will never save us. This is absolutely absurd to think that if you pass some law crime will be abolished.

You have to allow people to make their own decisions, and then hold them accountable. If they break the law, prosecute them.

But do not ever expect me to believe that a war on ourselves will ever save us.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 07:08 AM
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I'd like to add that some drugs are addictive, while others aren't. Addiction first of all is a MEDICAL CONDITION and should be treated as such. Time in prison does nothing to address the root causes of addiction and is comparatively much more expensive. I agree that the laws against drugs are far more devastating to lives than the bad effects of the drugs themselves. I also believe in freedom of choice as to what goes in our bodies but I also believe in personal accountability. With legalization the main cause for illegal drug dealing goes out the window - it takes away the profit motive.
As a person who lives with chronic pain, I would like to add that the current state of paranoia created by the DEA makes the lives of chronic pain patients horribly difficult. Doctors are reluctant to write prescriptions for real pain meds and even pharmacies can refuse to fill your prescription for no reason at all, i.e. - he didn't look "right" or whatever. Doctors cannot even call in prescriptions for narcotics which means the chronic pain patients (who often cannot drive) have to find a way to get to the doctors office just to pick up their prescriptions. I went for over a year terribly under-medicated and lost 1/6th of my body weight before they realized I wasn't making up that I was in real pain. I went from 150 lbs with no fat down to 125 lbs before they would give me adequate pain medication despite my repeated requests for help. The system is just insane and too many people in pain suffer needlessly for lack of cheap, easily manufactured medications.
I agree with you totally Seiko, it's time for the war on drugs to end because it's really a war on people, not any particular substance.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:40 AM
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reply to post by Detailed Perfection
 


I would like to ask you if you understand the Constitution as written.

We are sovereign individuals given the responsibility of governing ourselves.

That was the vision and absolute wonder of the Constitution.

The only law you as a sovereign are not allowed to do is harm someone or to infringe upon their rights.

Now all of the things you brought up, what are they? Harming someone right? You are the reason that are society is the way it is. You believe people cannot be responsible for their own actions.

Well damn it, if you love the chains you wear, why MUST I WEAR THEM?

Freedom is not just a word of luxury, it is a word of responsibility. But some people will never get it.

Let us just throw 50% of the FRACKING COUNTRY in jail because YOU cannot be allowed freedom because you have no concept of responsibility.



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 03:45 AM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


Another good example of a casualty, medical practice. I hadn't touched on this because there were so many threads pointing out how the war on drugs interferes with a doctor's ability to prescribe medications that might help.

Most of the ones we'll hear about in this forum will be ones that are now illegal but what you speak of is another side. Even drugs that are legal and should be prescribed by a doctor when the need arises is curtailed by fear and misinformation.

common sense for drug policy

People need to stop believing this fabricated stereotype that all drug users are addicts. It demonizes doctors and patients to a point where they are frightened to even discuss proper treatments.

I wish you the best, for what it's worth.



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