The biggest crime on Earth.

I'm with ya all the way OP (melbourne also). I don't have anything new to add since you've already covered it somewhat but kudos.

I really would like one person to give an answer to the question "Why is it illegal?" that isn't stupid or that can't be argued or proved false.

Originally posted by zaiger
I never said they could grow ALL of their food i was saying they could grow some but people choose to buy it because it is easy.

You validate my point in your post.

Read my OP - when it is easier to buy things, people will buy them before they make them.

Weed is much easier to grow and would eliminate the need to buy it.

Originally posted by zaiger
It is illegal right now and people do keep smoking pot even though they be treated like a criminal for doing so.

Again, this reinforces my point. Making weed illegal isn't exactly stopping people from using it - is it? It's too easy to grow!

ExpResidents confess to using it!

Originally posted by zaiger
Where do you get this info? I understand that this is what you believe and thay you would grow it if it were legal but you have no basis to judge what "most people" would do.

Anecdotal evidence from people I know.

It would be an interesting survey question to ask if the growing, using and supplying of weed was entirely legal, would you grow your own and happily share it with others, or would you buy your weed from someone else who is growing it?

reply to post by tezzajw

Weed is much easier to grow and would eliminate the need to buy it.

Yeah go to any forum with growers and tell them that all you need is sun and water to grow weed.

Again, this reinforces my point. Making weed illegal isn't exactly stopping people from using it - is it? It's too easy to grow!

Again your stoner logic fails. You claim that weed is so easy to grow and people do not grow it because they do not want to be treated like criminals for growing it, but you turn around and say "Making weed illegal isn't exactly stopping people from using it - is it? It's too easy to grow! " which makes no sense at all.

Anecdotal evidence from people I know.

Anecdotal evidence and faulty logic go hand in hand.

Originally posted by zaiger
Yeah go to any forum with growers and tell them that all you need is sun and water to grow weed.

If you think that it requires any more than sun and water, then you're seriously mistaken.

Originally posted by zaiger
Again your stoner logic fails. You claim that weed is so easy to grow and people do not grow it because they do not want to be treated like criminals for growing it, but you turn around and say "Making weed illegal isn't exactly stopping people from using it - is it? It's too easy to grow! " which makes no sense at all.

Your failure to grasp the logic isn't my problem.

It is being grown and used, despite being illegal. Some people take a chance and grow it. Other people buy from them, not wanting to take a chance.

If it was legal, most of the people who purchase it would no longer have a reason to do so, they would grow their own instead.

Your flawed logic has been obvious. Trying to equate the cultivation of a mixed crop of vegetables with growing weed is absurd.

Your insistance that there's any real effort to growing weed is also absurd. Most stoners would grow their own, if it was legal.

[edit on 8-12-2009 by tezzajw]

reply to post by tezzajw

It is being grown and used, despite being illegal. Some people take a chance and grow it. Other people buy from them, not wanting to take a chance.

They are still taking a chance buy buying it.

If it was legal, most of the people who purchase it would no longer have a reason to do so, they would grow their own instead.

You assume that everyone would want to grow their own.

Your flawed logic has been obvious. Trying to equate the cultivation of a mixed crop of vegetables with growing weed is absurd.

How is it absurd? I have an avacado and an apple tree in my back yard, the sprinklers water them both everyday. I have to do nothing and i get apples and avacados. When my tree runs out of apples and i want some i go to the store. People that smoke weed, when they run out of weed they go get more, there will always be people willing to buy and sell weed legal or not. Just as i will buy apples even though i have an apple tree.

Your insistance that there's any real effort to growing weed is also absurd. Most stoners would grow their own, if it was legal.

Do a simple search on how to raise pot plants it is not just a matter of throwing water on them while they are outside. Many people will pay large ammounts of money to get the inside of their houses converted into grow houses in california. Even places in california where it is legal to grow your own people still buy it even though you can grow it at your own house. Why????? Because the quality weed that people want to smoke is grown under optimal conditions and usually on the inside of a grow house. In a grow house you can controll everything light,temp, and humidity which would means you would have better plants than the people who think all it takes is sun and water. And how do people pay for this house conversion and the electric bill from all the grow lights? They sell their weed. And even though people can grow their own they buy it from a grower, because they put the time and effort into their product and they know it takes a little more that sun, water and a low IQ.


[edit on 8-12-2009 by zaiger]

Originally posted by zaiger
How is it absurd? I have an avacado and an apple tree in my back yard, the sprinklers water them both everyday. I have to do nothing and i get apples and avacados. When my tree runs out of apples and i want some i go to the store. People that smoke weed, when they run out of weed they go get more, there will always be people willing to buy and sell weed legal or not. Just as i will buy apples even though i have an apple tree.

Weed isn't a fruit, it doesn't come and go in seasons -- you don't just "run out of weed".

Do a simple search on how to raise pot plants it is not just a matter of throwing water on them while they are outside. Many people will pay large ammounts of money to get the inside of their houses converted into grow houses in california. Even places in california where it is legal to grow your own people still buy it even though you can grow it at your own house. Why????? Because the quality weed that people want to smoke is grown under optimal conditions and usually on the inside of a grow house. In a grow house you can controll everything light,temp, and humidity which would means you would have better plants than the people who think all it takes is sun and water. And how do people pay for this house conversion and the electric bill from all the grow lights? They sell their weed. And even though people can grow their own they buy it from a grower, because they put the time and effort into their product and they know it takes a little more that sun, water and a low IQ.

Your talking about growing in high quality hydroponic setups, where the sole purpose of growing the weed is to have it be unnaturally high in THC potency. This in my opinion is the unhealthy stuff that shouldn't be touched. It should only be used in the same conditions nature has provided it -- as with all things, including fruits and veggies. Do you think just because commercial fruit & veggie farmers have a complex irrigation setup and expensive machinery and chemicals to grow their produce, that we the people cannot grow our fruit & veggies on a patch of dirt in our backyards, without all additional crap? Exactly.

It really is that easy.

If weed was to become legalized, I'd like to think the majority of those that are interested in it, are not interested for the purpose of simply becoming a "stoner", as you always so ignorantly seem to put it. But rather for the right reasons (medical), and therefore, keep from buying the bad stuff and just grow their own, just like their veggies -- because it's so simple to do.

Originally posted by zaiger
Do a simple search on how to raise pot plants it is not just a matter of throwing water on them while they are outside.

Well, that's all that's required to grow weed.

A patch of dirt, sun and water. Endless supply, no need to buy...

reply to post by tezzajw

Well, that's all that's required to grow weed.

A patch of dirt, sun and water. Endless supply, no need to buy...

So then what is so complicated about growing a vegetable garden?

And the medical thing is just normaly red herring brought on to distract away from the point of you just want to get high leglally.

[edit on 8-12-2009 by zaiger]

Originally posted by zaiger
So then what is so complicated about growing a vegetable garden?

The fact that you ask that question highlights that you're out of your league and you just don't understand.

If you can't figure out the difference between maintaining a healthy, productive vegetable garden and growing weeds, that's your problem.

Besides, there's enough conspiracies about Monsanto and other big food companies trying to block out the smaller food suppliers from growing food. How long will it take before back yard vegetable gardens come under scrutiny?

[edit on 9-12-2009 by tezzajw]

Originally posted by tezzajw
Originally posted by zaiger
Yeah go to any forum with growers and tell them that all you need is sun and water to grow weed.

I have. Yes, some growers use special equipment that enables them to grow the plants INSIDE - but that is simply because growing them outside in their area would invite unwanted attention from the Police and nosy neighbours. The easiest way to grow, as is clearly explained on ALL the forums I have perused, is to plant in good soil, in open sunlight, and water once a week.

Originally posted by tezzajw

In my suburb, I bet that every second house would have a couple of plants in their garden. The big time dealers would have no market to sell to.

Agreed, the same holds true up here in Sydney, Tezza. It's the illegality of marijuana that causes it to be grown and monopolised by criminal organisations. Get rid of the prohibition and you get rid of the criminal activity.

[edit on 9/12/2009 by Kryties]

Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by tezzajw

 

So then what is so complicated about growing a vegetable garden?

Nothing at all. I am sitting here looking out my window at a 10x10 metre patch I cleared and planted with all manner of veges - tomatoes, lettuce, cucumbers, herbs of many varieties, cauliflowers, spinach etc etc. They required nothing more than turning the soil a bit, planting and watering in - followed up by watering once a week. The only complex bit about it is knowing what soil is and how it helps your plants grow. Get your soil right (full of nice microbial activity to convert the nutrients, plus a good boost of initial nutrients like worm castings) and you can't go wrong with your veges, or just about anything else that grows for that matter.

[edit on 9/12/2009 by Kryties]

ACTUALLY its been labeled "illegal" for so long because it makes a lot of very dangerous and influential people A LOT of money very regularly. (mafia gangs ect ect) Long story short, the govt and the govt officials that make policy are scared to death to legalize a substance and overnight make some bad ass'es wallets a lot lighter.

AND.. the ptb realize that marijuana actually STOPS a good amount of young people from doing harder drugs.

Growing weed isn't always possible to do outside for one. I live in the North (Canada) and I can tell you, as I engage in such activities of cultivation that are similar or identical to growing marijuana. Sure, it's easy to grow, but you're foolish if you think it possible to grow cannabis in the winter time. Not only that, but you mentioned how alcohol and tobacco need to be refined in other to be used. Very true, equally true for cannabis. You cannot simply just pluck the buds off the plant and smoke them right then and there (believe me, I've tried). They must be properly taken care of, dried for a week or so and then, if you wish to prevent the bud from moulding, you have to go through another week or two of a 'curing' process. I won't go into details because it's irrelevant, but your whole argument crumbles at this.

So, what you're trying to say is - if marijuana were to be legalized, (your words) literally overnight the street level dealing of marijuana would be neutralized? Are you joking me? Are you aware that it takes at least 6-8 weeks to grow a plant to it's mature size? I suppose you mustn't be, because you assume that "literally overnight" big changes would happen.

Now, I don't mean to sound harsh or critical of you, I agree it should be legalized, but your argument is very flawed, and the way you are reacting to legitimate arguments against your point shows you are too emotional to be arguing about matters of import. You have been regularly in this topic attempted to say that those who argue your point simply don't understand your enlightened logic - but it is you, I believe, who doesn't understand theirs. It truly is very easy to grow your own vegetables. Heck, in the summer time, we grow our own peppers tomatoes and zucchinis, and we used to have a peach tree. Does this mean we never bought peppers tomatoes or zucchinis? No, we still bought them from time to time (except for zucchinis because they taste ich from a store) and we were forced to in the winter time, due to a noticable lack of green house.

Your argument is very flawed - there are a million (or I can think of AT LEAST seven other reasons) why marijuana ought be legalized, and yet, getting rid of street level dealership isn't one of them. It's not going to happen at all, for the simple reason that yes, it DOES take time and effort on your part to grow a marijuana plant and if you think it doesn't.... well then it's obvious you have never grown your own. It's easy to grow it, sure, but it's still very time consuming and those who just want to relax a little bit after work might not want to wait a should 6-8 weeks just to harvest and then another 2-4 weeks to dry and cure their weed.

Or- maybe I simply don't understand your great logic. I am but a humble stupid person that knows nothing about everything and you, O Great One, must enlighten me by calling me names.

reply to post by LususNaturae


You are not taking into account the fact that by legalising it then wholesale growers that previously were illegal would immediately be legal, therefore a supply chain would already be set up to see the initial stages of legalisation through until more people start either setting up farms or growing their own.

I believe the word overnight was used in the context that overnight we would see changes, the process would have already begun. But then again, many, many people use it and there is a lot of marijuana growing out there right now that would sudenly be legal overnight - so I really wouldn't discount the possibility of large changes happening literally overnight.

It might not happen overnight, but I guarantee that within several weeks the whole criminal chain will have ground to a halt as more and more shops and legal places to sell are set up.

Several weeks of winding down criminal activity versus 30 years of bloodshed, violence and death. Hmmmm........which would you pick?

[edit on 9/12/2009 by Kryties]

reply to post by Kryties


A fair point. However, at the same time, we must understand that most criminal violence is most definitely NOT about marijuana, as much 'crime' as surrounds the stoner scene. Most (not all) violence regarding street level dealership revolves around harder drugs - in america coc aine is (or was) a big problem. Slowly I have seen this change towards illegally obtained prescription opiates (oxycodone, hydrocodone, codeine) derived from thebaine or poppy - which was most likely imported by the gov't (wait, what am I saying.. MOST DEFINITELY) which results in the street level crimes we see and hear about. Not about weed - weed causes little problems (as per usual) but the other illegal narcotics it is bunched in with makes it look like a big part of the problem.

This topic reminds me of that movie Blow....

In all honesty, I don't feel like what I've done is a crime and I think it's illogical and irresponsible for you to sentence me to prison. None of the real criminals of the world ever end up behind bars. I mean, when you think bout it, what did I really do? Cross an imaginary line with a bunch of plants? -George Jung

reply to post by LususNaturae



The bigger issue I see is that while you and I claim that the marijuana itself causes little to no harm to the person or the community (except through the criminal activity related to it's prohibition), nearly 50% of all drug related arrests (in the US) are to do with marijuana (either possesion, cultivation or supply). If marijuana is legalised in the US (and this holds true for all other countries participating in the War of Drugs) then instantly you create more room in the jails and more money not being spent on marijuana related arrests that can be diverted to combatting (ie: hopefully medically - through rehabilitation programs rather than jail) the other drug issues, and the violence associated with them.

[edit on 9/12/2009 by Kryties]