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Joining "the system" -

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posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 04:22 PM
This seems like the most fitting forum. I'm aware some of you are parents on here, and I had a question for you. I am going to have a baby in May and have always been weary of birth certificates and social security cards. These things are not necessary, they just make living "easier". Social security numbers are asked for everywhere, and they're in almost every online form, but I'm almost certain it isn't a requirement to have. I could be misinformed, and if I am, by all means let me know.

My boyfriend and I have been discussing what our options are when it comes to those two things. I disagree with the hospital being pushy about naming your child as soon as possible, and so does he. We want a home birth, but in the state we live in and in the surrounding states, it is illegal for mid-wives to perform home births. So, we're going to a birthing center. I am unfamiliar with their "priorities", but it seems slightly more relaxed, and more about the birthing process than the recording process.

Has anyone here opted out of getting their child a social security card/birth certificate? I'm expecting a world of frustration and challenges. A friend of mine recently gave birth, and we generally agree on the idea of social security cards, but she said she was forced to get her baby one? That doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong and it is completely required for some reason?

My other issue is putting my child in a situation he or she may not necessarily want to be in (by not having a social security card or birth certificate), and in turn that would be forcing them into a lifestyle they don't want. That's just as bad.

I'm just curious about what other ATS parents have decided to do in raising their children, understanding the type of government system we live in and what the government's true interests are.

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 04:38 PM
reply to post by fbnks

I'm pretty sure that having a birth certificate and a social security card are required; at the very least the birth certificate is because, the hospital/birthing center has to keep it on record. It's virtually impossible to live without either of these things. Try signing your kid up for Little League without a BC—ain't gonna happen! You're not going to be hired without a SSNumber either.

My wife and I had a kid back in April, here in Germany, but we're both Americans. We're going to, when we have the time, go to the consulate so that he can get his American citizenship too. In order to receive the citizenship, he has to get a Social Security Number. That is what makes me think that they're required; if it wasn't, the paperwork would all say that it was optional.

Consider yourself lucky that your child is going to be born in America. The stack of paperwork is ridiculous.

Finally, herzlichen Glückwunsch! (Congratulations!)

ETA: I think that SS Cards are required mainly for tax purposes nowadays. It's much easier to look up a number as opposed to trying to figure out with John Smith you want out of the list of six hundred gagillion.

[edit on 11/29/2009 by octotom]

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 04:46 PM
I found a blog talking about this, and they said the first year it isn't required but after that, for tax purposes it is if you file your child as a dependent.

I'm wondering though, about a certificate of live birth instead of a birth certificate. From what I've been reading, they're two different things, at least on this website.

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 04:52 PM
reply to post by fbnks

Joining "the system" -

My youngest two were born in 1986 and '88, respectively. With each birth there was the rush for a name and then the required SSN before we could pick up the birth certificate.

Initially, we railed against this. We felt that such an important document should not be held for ransom of a Social Security number.

About three weeks after we brought our daughter home in 1988, we had not applied for the SS account and were looking into ways to avoid this 'tattooing'. The hospital eventually contacted my employer who then threatened to put me on furlough until I could 'get my personal life in order'.

I was flummoxed! How could a hospital or the government so interfere in our lives?

Well, they did and they won because I had to have my job so the wife and kids would have a roof over their heads and food in their bellies.

It sucks, I agree.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by redoubt]

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:02 PM
Geesh, I needed all these items just to register my kids for pre-school. Also, my older children need all these documents for getting their driving licenses, you need them to apply for marriage licenses.......the list goes on.......We may not like it or agree with it, but in all of my experiences, we need these documents just to prove who we are..... I get where your coming from though. It really does get ridiculous. Every year there seems to be a new ridiculous law! I do wish you luck with your new baby & congratulations!! Hope you have a safe delivery

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:13 PM
First off congratulations kids are great. They would be better if they came with an instruction manual but there still great.

Kids give unconditional love. Just remember you will teach them everything. Any fears you have and prejudeces

At least in the UK you must register your child within 2 weeks. It is not a request it is not an option you MUST.

If you want access to nusery, any tax breaks, benefits you have no choice but to do it.

I have no idea how this would effect schooling ect but it would impact when he/she tried to get a job, proving there age the list goes on

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:15 PM
The Social Security number is assigned by the IRS to make sure that they can steal, I mean, collect taxes whenever your child works. I have heard that there are legal ways to avoid having one, but in doing so your child would truly be outside the system.

It is frighteningly unfortunate that the "system" is everywhere. You don't have to voluntarily put your SS# on a job application, but you will not be hired without it. This is to ensure that the company isn't liable to the IRS when they don't get their cut of the wages.

Those documents literally create a straw man. An entity that exists only on paper to which you legally agree to represent. Notice that those documents always type the name in FULL CAPS. that indicates the straw person. The thing is that in this society you cannot have any of it's benefits without selling out to your strawman. (this is all easily researched online, I'm to lazy to do a report, but I will if you ask me too)

So your fears of subjecting your child to a life s/he wouldn't want are countered by the argument that without these documents s/he quite literally wouldn't be allowed anything. You would have to live completely outside the system.

It is sad that this tiny little unborn life is already a slave in our society.

Edit: spelling

[edit on 11/29/2009 by AlienChaser]

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:45 PM
The more I read, the more saddened I become. I am really conflicted. If I don't do anything, I'm risking not being able to take care of my baby, and if I do something, I'm risking being told how to take care of my baby.

It's a mess.

My friend's dad is a social worker, but I don't know if even he could really help.

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:48 PM
Don't fret

Beating the system is a State of Mind

Just be honest about how you feel with your child and he/she will be fine.

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 06:13 PM
So far I've read that the only "downfall" of not getting your child a SSN is not being able to put them as dependents on your taxes and get money back. That doesn't seem like a very big downfall to me.

I was reading about public schools and preschools, and the possibility of them requiring a SSN, as well as vaccinations (which is an entirely new subject, but I'm sure most of you are against vaccinations like I am).

I'm really trying to think about what is best for the baby - disregarding my own personal beliefs.

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 06:47 PM
Well I know from experience, you are not allowed to leave the hospital with out doing so. My ex husband and I still had not decided on a name for my middle child. We were down to two names but couldn't decide. The hospital took it upon themselves to pick between those two names. I was furious. Then they told me it was to late to change. When you are exhausted from giving birth its kinda hard to put up much of a fight. Good luck on the B.C. and S.S. number. If you refuse they will call CPS.

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 07:04 PM
reply to post by fbnks

O I had a complete freak out on the new school nurse this year over the whole flu shot vacc. on my now kindergartener!! I have refused for my kids to get the h1n1 shot though. it isn't mandatory here anyway. And my poor son received his chickenpox vacc. this year, then missed a week of school because he got the chickenpox from the vacc.!! I had mentioned this in a different thread. So, YES, I definately understand your concern about all the vaccs. Do you think you may want to home school? Because that is the only way I see around the vacc. issue, to my knowledge. But maybe someone who home schools here on a.t.s can help you more with that issue. I applaud you for all the concern you are having now towards your unborn child. You will make a great parent. Try not to worry too much or you will make yourself sick!

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:00 PM
It is not illegal to have a baby at home, to not have a birth certificate or a social security number. Your state may not recognize a midwife, but you can choose to have anyone you want there for your baby's birth.

You can choose, as many religions do, to record the birth in a family bible. Once a birth certificate is procured for your child, they become property of the state. That is why there is a serial number on your child's birth certificate. The child becomes property of the USA corporation.

A social security number is never mandatory. Many people choose not to pay into the program. An employer cannot pay benefits for that employee without a social security number.

If you are harassed, explain that your religion does not allow numbering of a child. Obtaining governmental permission to exist is perceived by some to be the sign of the devil.

I am strongly opposed to the government dictating that they give me permission to exist. It is my God given right to exist as I am. I am first, and foremost a child of God. I have done fine without a social security number, but not having a driver's license has been challenging. I am currently researching my right to free travel.

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