You know it's funny.

This debate has ranged since the early days of 9/11. Either side could be considered official bunkers or debunkers for their actions.

The argument is like beating a dead horse. The truth will NEVER come out...EVER.

It's an important issue, and should be discussed and all new information should be presented, but just giong about blatantly disregarding information from both sides in an effort to "destroy" a thread for or against the OS is nonsense.

It serves nothing but to divide this community further, which is why I don't read the 9/11 boards anymore, too much hate, too much paranoia and trolling.

Some members are here specifically for that section of the website, and they take an arrogant, defiant stance while using the "deny Ignorance" moto as their argument.

What everybody does in these boards, as far as 9/11 discussion goes, taking what has said above in mind, is IGNORANCE at it's finest, you people simply haven't realized that yet.

~Keeper

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
Let me guess; you lost an argument recently and you're trying to make yourself feel better about it by convincing yourself it was a paid government operative.

Calling someone a paid agent of the government, is like comparing something to Nazism or someone to Hitler; it concedes that you have nothing of substance to say.

Exactly right.

He lost to me.

And now this.

If all else fails, run away and call the other person names.

And you know the saddest part? I happen to agree that the official story is bogus. I just disagree on certain unsubstantiated particulars.

It's fundamentalism, in its purest form.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

Originally posted by RipCurl
of course, all these "sleepless nights" are resesarching only on websites that cater to your beliefs. AE911 isn't a reliable source

I hardly consider controlled demolition sites, science/physics sites, or fire engineering sites catering to anyone's beliefs. As I've already stated, sites like AE911T were not around yet.

But you go ahead and keep making things up like most debunkers do. Those of us in the truth movement will stick with facts, evidence and truth. Don't forget the keyword in the truth movement: truth. Not made-up, make-believe, illogical, or fairy-tale improbabilities like the official account suggests.

Originally posted by impressme



What is funny about OS believers is you actually fall for the OS nonsense that you were told and now believe it comes from your "gut instinct."

No. I believe the EVIDENCE and FACT based conclusions in the various reports based on the fact they were WRITTEN by respectable people in their fields of expertise, SPENT years researching and testing, and had their WORK peer reviewed.

YOU do understand how and why this is the case?

What does the truth movement have? Reports written in SHAM journals and one that will publish if you pay them too. And most of the reports are written by those who haVE No expertise in the fields they are writing about!

Funny enough, you are ignorant enough to think, “911 OS is all true”.
You have spent years making fun of the Truth, insulting everyone who scoffs at the OS proven lies. What are you hoping to accomplish here?

Then you wouldn't mind providing a fact fill, evidence based report that fits all the evidence, witness testimonies and events, of 9/11/2001. Care to back it up of course, with any published papers you have in RESPECTABLE engineering journals.



the truther movement has had 8 years to do and till this DAY Refuses to do so.

9-11 Happened, the exact truth of who, what, where, and why hopefully will come out someday.
I can see suppressing and attacking conversations on it by devote individuals, I wont say its impossible, highly improbable, but its a strange world so..you never know.
The official story doesnt sit right with me, I've worked with steel and structure for alot of my life. What concerns me more, is how any satisfaction is gained by basically as stated earlier, most engagements on the topic do in fact go strawman. Frustration will erode mostly to that.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
. . . .
Secondly, what are you on about "proffessional debunkers"? Even if there were disinfo agents on here, at the end of the day they are still members participating in discussion. Instead of aiming for them personally, why not address their arguments? If an NWO agent were to post a comment against an NWO thread with their views and points, what good would it do to your cause to automatically dismiss them as agents as opposed to actually addressing their points? I mean at the end of the day, regardless of whether their NWO agents, conspiracy theorists or Tom Hanks, isnt this forum really about addressing points and arguments? What good does it do to automatically dismiss somebody for who they supposedly are, not what their argument is? This isnt what ATS is about in my opinion.

There are people being paid to make posts pushing certain points. I don't know where they post, but I do know a regular advertising company which has recently included this in what it sells, and pays per post.

You are right that it is important to argue with the post, not attack the poster. Now, I wouldn't know or care if anyone pays you to post because you are always informative and polite, and you answer points that other people bring up. The people I suspect of being paid agents are not like that.

These people are posting a regular number of posts each day, always pushing a small range of points. They do not present actual arguments or facts, and do not debate any that are presented. They merely repeat themselves over and over, and use guilt trips, threats, ridicule and strawmen to silence the other points of view. By doing this they seriously stifle discussion.

It's been pointed out in this thread that people posting theories not in agreement with official ones tend to be new posters. There's a grain of truth in that, and I believe it's because some new posters are surprised and hurt by the ridicule and harsh treatment they receive, and don't stay around. This is bad for the whole forum.

However there is another aspect. Having people devoted to cutting one off at the knees for disagreeing with the view they are pushing really sharpens up one's concentration, logic and use of source material. If people hang in there, putting together logical arguments and not running away, these paid agents can do more good than harm by keeping a thread alive and forcing clear thinking.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by jthomas
What's funny about you 9/11 "Truthers" is you actually fall for the above nonsense that you were told and now believe it comes from your "gut instinct."

What's funny about you "Debunkers" is that you actually think most of us truthers believe things we are told without a shred of research or verification.

What we know is that you do not know how to logically evaluate information, facts, and claims.

When in actuality, many of us have spent countless hours, days, months and years with many sleepless nights researching and verifying facts.

A meaningless statement. One suffering from confirmation bias trying to "prove" one's beliefs will do that routinely. One can approach 9/11 "Truther" claims logically and quickly understand the contradictions, misstated "facts", and illogical mental processes that characterize those who become 9/11 "Truthers." We don't have to spend "countless hours" looking for what we want to find; we only have to point out your failures to make any case of support for your claims.

You forget that we have decades of history studying the nature of "denial", the motivations, the methodologies, the tactics, and the outright, repeated denial of verifiable facts inconveneint to a deniers beliefs and motives. This is nothing new, _BoneZ_.

I was an official fairy-tale believer until I spent many months researching what truthers were saying back then and none of it came from truther websites as there weren't very many around in those days. So let's stop pushing misinformation that truthers just "believe what they're told" and that's what the truth movement is based off of because that's furthest from the real truth.

You just illustrated that you "believe what you are told." There is not a single rational person who falls for the "Truther" canard of a so-called "official story" or "official fairy tale." None of us have any reason to deny evidence wherever it leads. We don't have any ax to grind as much as you NEED to have imaginary opponents. If you "Truthers" were the slightest bit capable and rational and could actually bring evidence to the table overwhelmingly supporting your claims, not one of us would object. And you would have done it at least seven full years ago. But you can't and you know you can't. You have never given us one reason to believe or accept your claims, much less call for yet another investigation.

You stepped right into the doo-doo with that faux pas of the "official story" and don't even know you did it. You gave us a good chuckle.

You don't know what you don't know and you don't want to. You all are happy to buy into the utter nonsense of "9/11 Truth" . And you have not an ounce of embarrassment to be associated with the idiotic and irrational Richard Gage.

Get real, _BoneZ_ and give up the nonsense of "9/11 Truth."

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
Those of us in the truth movement will stick with facts, evidence and truth. Don't forget the keyword in the truth movement: truth. Not made-up, make-believe, illogical, or fairy-tale improbabilities like the official account suggests.

As I wrote, you don't know what you don't know and you don't want to. The truth is irrelevant to you.